My goal is to put on 10 to 15lbs, without getting too fat, over six months. What do you all think?

1) 1cup oatmeal, 1 cup egg whites, maybe a whole egg or two

2) 50grams whey, 1 glass fat free milk, 1 or 2 tbs peanut butter, fruit

3) 1 cup brown rice, 8oz lean ground turkey

4) post workout: 50 grams whey, 1 cup fat free milk, 25 grams sugar

5) 1 cup brown rice, 8oz lean ground turkey

6) scoop of whey(would use casein but its cheaper for me to use whey) in milk with peanut butter or cottage cheese with peanut butter

supplements: creatine, whey, mult vita/min, fish oil, caffeine

That is def a clean diet. Is the weight posted in your profile correct? How active are you? What is your BMR? Just some things to think about. You can start with the diet you listed and track your weight weekly. If you gain too quickly, cut some calories. Not fast enough, add some calories.

Also...your weight training??? What program? Need a little info.

10 to 15 lbs of lean mass in 6 months would be awesome, Arnold said that after a few years of training you can only hope to put on 12 lbs of lean mass a year if clean bulking. Thats not to say your goal is un-atainable. You diet looks very clean, I would recommend you start there and analyze your progress after three weeks. Also keep some cardio in you routine, i find it keeps me feeling healthy and will keep of the weight loss (plus it allows for a little extra eating). You know your body better than anyone else on here so just train you balls of, eat, and rest and , 10-15 lbs is alot but it'd be tight if you were able to do it.

There are SO many factor sinvolved as evidenced by slackadjuster's questions. However, to break it down, adding 10-15 pounds in 6 months, there is probably no shot of you NOT getting fat even if you ate the cleanest diet ever.

I agree with joelast, take your starting point and diet and see where you are at after about 2-4 weeks. You can make any necessary adjsutments then if you feel like you are adding too much BF.

Originally Posted by rantorcha

There are SO many factor sinvolved as evidenced by slackadjuster's questions. However, to break it down, adding 10-15 pounds in 6 months, there is probably no shot of you NOT getting fat even if you ate the cleanest diet ever.

I agree with joelast, take your starting point and diet and see where you are at after about 2-4 weeks. You can make any necessary adjsutments then if you feel like you are adding too much BF.

I am 5'9 and around 170lbs. I am 22 years old. I have been working out for several years but took a month or so off lately and lost a little bit of muscle. I train 5 times a week. All big body parts are trained once a week. Arms are trained twice a week. My calves and abs are trained two to three times a week. My cardio is usually a steady 10 to 20mins at the end of each workout. My bodyfat is around 10% im guessing. My stomach tends to hold more fat than any other place on my body. You can only see my abs when flexed. I want to put on as much size as possible in six months because I will be competeing in a little over 9 months.

that weight is possible in the time frame, 2lbs a month isn't too bad. you will just have to monitor calories SUPER closely to be able to make real adjustments of as little as 50 cal a day. its the only way to really maximize gains while minimizing fats. What is your training routine like?

Team Appnut

Originally Posted by classic27

My goal is to put on 10 to 15lbs, without getting too fat, over six months. What do you all think?

1) 1cup oatmeal, 1 cup egg whites, maybe a whole egg or two

2) 50grams whey, 1 glass fat free milk, 1 or 2 tbs peanut butter, fruit

3) 1 cup brown rice, 8oz lean ground turkey

4) post workout: 50 grams whey, 1 cup fat free milk, 25 grams sugar

5) 1 cup brown rice, 8oz lean ground turkey

6) scoop of whey(would use casein but its cheaper for me to use whey) in milk with peanut butter or cottage cheese with peanut butter



supplements: creatine, whey, mult vita/min, fish oil, caffeine

Thats a good start but if i counted right you are only getting around 150g carbs..I would start at 200g and more than likely you will need to get up around 250 to gain. Start at 200g for three weeks and if you dont gain then up ur carbs by 50 every three weeks till you start gaining. I would start out adding sum more carbs post wo for sure..Hope this helps

The One + 2nd gear + D-liver labs????

Originally Posted by Mr_Tee

The One + 2nd gear + D-liver labs????

I want to do it natural. I have done the drugs and they work but its not for me.

I have counted this diet all up and its just under 3000 cals, just under 200 carbs, and just under 100. The protein was nearly 300 I think. Should i adjust these ratios?

those are workable. your best bet is to have it written down, track what you actually do and stick with that for a month, then change the macros. everyones body is different so you have to see what works best for your body and lifestyle.

Try BFFM

try to get more protein from food. whey is good, but muscles need food!

Originally Posted by njp1185

try to get more protein from food. whey is good, but muscles need food!

I do agree with you but the whey is for convenince and its cheap. I'm eating a pound of meat, 5 or 6 eggs, cottage cheese, peanut butter, milk, so I am not completely relying on supplements. I will try to eat more protein from food when I have the down time to do so.

Does anyone think that almost a hundred grams of fat is too high? Should i raise my carbs so I am taking in closer to two grams per pound of body weight? Do you think arginine would be something worthwhile adding to my supplements? What about gutamine and BCAAs? I realize food comes first when trying to gain weight but you alls opinions on these supplements would be much appreciated.

I would definetely do arginine and glutamine. Arginine is going to increase blood flow and nutrients to your muscle. In addition it raises test levels. I would look into some L- orinthine (sp?) it is an amino acid in White Blood/Flood which also boosts test levels. L-glutamine is great for reducing muscle fatigue during workouts and relieving soreness post workout. I take both the supps along with creatine and whey. Good luck on those 10 lbs.

Originally Posted by classic27

Does anyone think that almost a hundred grams of fat is too high? Should i raise my carbs so I am taking in closer to two grams per pound of body weight? Do you think arginine would be something worthwhile adding to my supplements? What about gutamine and BCAAs? I realize food comes first when trying to gain weight but you alls opinions on these supplements would be much appreciated.

I would keep the fats there. More often than not, if you are natural, once you have met a good carb number fats are good and necessary for you.

As for arginine, glut and bcaas, each of these would be great. There are a few that I have been using that I would HIGHLY recommend by All American EFX-the Flex Wheeler Series...
Cell Rush
LBA (Lean BEef Aminos)
LG5 (glutmaine product)
Sincerely, these products are specifically made for natural athletes and is PURE! I have used them over the last couple of months and have never had the results I have acheived. Try it and let me know how it goes.

I would look into taking creatine with beta alanine to help retain as much as possible. The above mentioned Cell Rush is awsome.

I would also say cardio is important during a lean bulk for us natties. However, I have found that my lean bulk phases are the most effective when I encorporate 1 day of HIIT cardio and 0 days of low intensity cardio. Now some people may still need LIT on a lean bulk but I think it is very helpful to keep 1 day of HIIT cardio in. HIIT cardio will actually leave your quads/hams quite sore if you go hard enough and is a great full body workout. My abs even get sore from sprints i guess from bring my knees up high while sprinting. Also HIIT cardio greatly strengthens your heart, the most important muscle of all

all i can say is eat anti estrogenice foods, incorporate aerobic,anaerobic and whole body exercises and keep a diary

Originally Posted by classic27

My goal is to put on 10 to 15lbs, without getting too fat, over six months. What do you all think?

1) 1cup oatmeal, 1 cup egg whites, maybe a whole egg or two

2) 50grams whey, 1 glass fat free milk, 1 or 2 tbs peanut butter, fruit

3) 1 cup brown rice, 8oz lean ground turkey

4) post workout: 50 grams whey, 1 cup fat free milk, 25 grams sugar

5) 1 cup brown rice, 8oz lean ground turkey

6) scoop of whey(would use casein but its cheaper for me to use whey) in milk with peanut butter or cottage cheese with peanut butter


supplements: creatine, whey, mult vita/min, fish oil, caffeine

Definitely doable man I LOVE GETTING DONE WITH A COMPETITION AND GETTING TO LEAN BULK!!!!! MMMMMM CARBS!!!!!! But I don't start my bulk cycle till two weeks from now (gotta slowly introduce the body back into higher calories, higher carbs, etc.) but soon enough . I highly recommend you look go to bodybuilding.com and seard for "Lean Mass Diet" it will help you tremendously and may even get you to where you want to be quicker than six months (seems a little long to me ) but like everyone says diet is KEY. You can do it brother. It's time to get fired up and get the ball rolling! Natty bulking baby! Goodluck bro

Originally Posted by TigerStealth

I would also say cardio is important during a lean bulk for us natties. However, I have found that my lean bulk phases are the most effective when I encorporate 1 day of HIIT cardio and 0 days of low intensity cardio. Now some people may still need LIT on a lean bulk but I think it is very helpful to keep 1 day of HIIT cardio in. HIIT cardio will actually leave your quads/hams quite sore if you go hard enough and is a great full body workout. My abs even get sore from sprints i guess from bring my knees up high while sprinting. Also HIIT cardio greatly strengthens your heart, the most important muscle of all

Personally I like low intensity but I will mix it up and throw in HIIT (which is GREAT cardio) every now and then as it is beneficial in aiding in increasing VO2 max so more fat burn . but yep cardio is a great addition to a bulk and should most definitely be done in some fashion.

Originally Posted by christiantt

you can not gain muscle ,and loss fat at the same time.

Actually, you CAN!!! (I successfully do this all the time, both myself and my clients, and so do many other people on these forums). It takes knowing your body and the perfect manipulation of diet and/or training to achieve, though, and is far slower than either outright cutting or bulking.

Originally Posted by christiantt

your body fat % might inprove

If your % bodyfat (% BF) decreases and your weight remains the same, then you have gained lean body mass (LBM) and lost bodyfat (BF). If you gain weight but your % BF decreases, then, depending on the % BF then you have also gained LBM and lost BF.

For example:.

Scenario A
Subject starts at 90kg at 10% BF.
Subject ends at 90kg at 9% BF.
Start: 9kg BF, 81kg LBM
End: 8.1kg BF, 81.9kg LBM (-0.9kg BF, +0.9kg LBM)

Scenario B
Subject starts at 90kg at 10% BF.
Subject ends at 95kg at 9% BF
Start: 9kg BF, 81kg LBM
End: 8.55kg BF, 86.45kg LBM (-0.45kg BF, +5.45kg LBM)


~Rosie
Team APPNUT

Originally Posted by joelast

Arnold said that after a few years of training you can only hope to put on 12 lbs of lean mass a year if clean bulking.

i did not know Arnold said that. I do know this is true if everything is right..thats a pound of muscle in one month..and this is naturally. With that said, how many of us have every thing perfect? training(form) , a handle on diet-big key, sleep, and natural anabolics. (creatine, beta alanine, glutamine, etc whatever works for you)

Originally Posted by Guejsn

Actually, you CAN!!! (I successfully do this all the time, both myself and my clients, and so do many other people on these forums). It takes knowing your body and the perfect manipulation of diet and/or training to achieve, though, and is far slower than either outright cutting or bulking.




If your % bodyfat (% BF) decreases and your weight remains the same, then you have gained lean body mass (LBM) and lost bodyfat (BF). If you gain weight but your % BF decreases, then, depending on the % BF then you have also gained LBM and lost BF.

For example:.

Scenario A
Subject starts at 90kg at 10% BF.
Subject ends at 90kg at 9% BF.
Start: 9kg BF, 81kg LBM
End: 8.1kg BF, 81.9kg LBM (-0.9kg BF, +0.9kg LBM)

Scenario B
Subject starts at 90kg at 10% BF.
Subject ends at 95kg at 9% BF
Start: 9kg BF, 81kg LBM
End: 8.55kg BF, 86.45kg LBM (-0.45kg BF, +5.45kg LBM)


~Rosie
Team APPNUT

you can but it is not going to be a big increase especially as a person adds more and more muscle. When the calories are in surplus mode a person builds muscle much faster, provided training is intense(and heavy) enough to stimulate muscle.

I just think doing calorie surplus mode it is much easier. sleep seems to be better because you are not calorie restricted verses calorie restriction phases sleep can be impaired.

When I am dieting for a show I am happy to maintain the muscle I have from that "off season". Do I really think I'll add some? not really. I mean it is possible but with the calorie restriction I am not going to risk injury and train hard, heavy and intense as I do in the calorie surplus mode

remember when you are not taking in carbs , body fat goes in the single digits , injuries are more likely to happen. so thats why I think it is a good idea to still train intense, just not as intense, getting down into the single digit body fat levels, and especially back off on intensity the last two weeks before the show.

Originally Posted by smeton_yea

you can but it is not going to be a big increase especially as a person adds more and more muscle. When the calories are in surplus mode a person builds muscle much faster, provided training is intense(and heavy) enough to stimulate muscle.

I just think doing calorie surplus mode it is much easier. sleep seems to be better because you are not calorie restricted verses calorie restriction phases sleep can be impaired.

When I am dieting for a show I am happy to maintain the muscle I have from that "off season". Do I really think I'll add some? not really. I mean it is possible but with the calorie restriction I am not going to risk injury and train hard, heavy and intense as I do in the calorie surplus mode

remember when you are not taking in carbs , body fat goes in the single digits , injuries are more likely to happen. so thats why I think it is a good idea to still train intense, just not as intense, getting down into the single digit body fat levels, and especially back off on intensity the last two weeks before the show.

As I said, it is much slower than either outright cutting or bulking and not everyone has the discipline or knows what to do to achieve it.

Everyone is different, John, and will have their preferred method of nutrition and training. However, if you're trying for fat loss that you do NOT have to restrict calories IF you increase your energy expenditure (i.e. I just add in 2-4 more cardio sessions if I want more fat loss). And not taking in carbohydrates does not necessarily mean that one can get into single digits re body composition; if you're NOT having ENOUGH carbohydrates fat loss is hindered (anything less than 50g of carbohydrates a day affects fat metabolism).

I am not arguing what works for you. We each have our own way of doing things to get results and what works for one person is not always going to work for another. It's all about finding the right balance for YOU.


~Rosie
Team APPNUT

I agree on the low carbs. may work for some people but I have done it and I do not feel good on it.

and that is a good point about just adding more cardio to burn the calories off. I personally like cardio because it elevates my mood.