Fedor, New Year's Eve
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Dancebot 2000
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People are giving Choi a lot of credit for how he performed in this fight, but really, he just got tooled. Sherdog is hillarious with posters saying only Fedor or Nog could beat him. I think any HW with decent sub skills could take him.
Alexander
Well-known member
It's not like Fedor really proved anything, but really, Choi would beat half of the UFC HW's IMO. Sylvia, Herring, Kongo, all the strikers in the UFC would lose to Choi. They aint gonna beat him standing, and those guys won't sub him. Just saying, the HMC/Fedor fight is 'less' of a joke than people make it out to be.
Dancebot 2000
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I think Syvlia could take him, and maybe Herring, but Kongo would most likely get tooled.
CryingEmo
Well-known member
I love how Fedor gets no credit.
He's not in the UFC, get over it. He's fighting on another venue and this is the guy he fought...
Who else in the world would submit a guy who was 140 lb's heavier, and 14 inches taller in UNDER 2 minutes? Choi isn't top level competition skill wise, but then again, would you have ever heard of Tim Sylvia if he was 6'2? Seriously...
He's not in the UFC, get over it. He's fighting on another venue and this is the guy he fought...
Who else in the world would submit a guy who was 140 lb's heavier, and 14 inches taller in UNDER 2 minutes? Choi isn't top level competition skill wise, but then again, would you have ever heard of Tim Sylvia if he was 6'2? Seriously...
AE14
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Nog?
my complaint is look who fedor has fought in his last few fights
HMC, Hunt, Zulu. Hunt is the only one there worth a damn.
CryingEmo
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I don't see Lindland there. Lindland was a heavyweight when he fought Fedor, so that is a very legit fight.
Rodja
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Sapp is a lot heavier, but only a few inches taller (200cm for Sapp, 191cm for Nog). Plus, Nog took a sh!tload of punishment and 14 minutes of fight time to finally get that armbar.
Alexander
Well-known member
I don't see Sylvia or Herring beating HMC. Herring had a lot of trouble with Giant Silva, HMC is better than GS in every way, by far. Sylvia wouldn't be able to take HMC down and would get destroyed standing up. Hell, I think Nog would have trouble with HMC, just like he did with Sapp. Randy Couture? He would be in serious trouble against HMC. I'm serious too.
Dancebot 2000
Active member
I don't think it's hard to get him down and end up in guard, especially in a ring (getting top position on him is another story). I honestly believe his sub defense is so bad, even Sylvia would catch him. If he put a ton of effort in training the ground game, he could be dangerous.
Alexander
Well-known member
Yeah, how can Lindland not be on the list? Lindland had fought and arguably beaten the current UFC LHW champ right before he fought Fedor and got tooled in 3 and a 1/2 minutes.
I agree that Fedor has not fought 'the best' in the last year or so, but HMC is a scary dude, and a threat to most. Size really does matter, the guy is well over 7 feet and almost 400 pounds, and he's in shape, plus he's one of the top kickboxer's in the world.
CryingEmo
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I doubt NOG would do it in under 2 minutes.
Dancebot 2000
Active member
Lindland is still a MW, even if he packed on the fat to get to HW. It's like when BJ fought Lyoto, they still have their natural weight class. Fedor said after that he didn't want to punch him because he didn't think he needed to, and would rather protect his hand from breaking again. That doesn't sound like a valid opponent.
To me, Hunt is the closest thing to a valid opponent Fedor's had since CC, and even that one was at best the number 10 HW in the world. At best. And it was a bad stylistic match up for Hunt.
I just want a good opponent for Fedor. I don't want to see him beating up guys that never stood a chance. I want to be worried for the right reasons when I watch him; "Oooo, is Barnett going to overpower him? Will Randy control position?", not "will HMC fall on top of him and cut his face so they have to stop the fight".
I'm not hating on Fedor. I believe he's the best. He does exactly what he should in his fights, but I just want to see him fight someone who challenges him.
CryingEmo
Well-known member
Yeah, and rampage owned liddell, twice. So Fedor > Lindland <=> Rampage > Liddell. Mmamath doesn't really work, but it's interesting because if Fedor fought any of those guys besides Lindland it would be considered legit because they are in the UFC. It's the same old UFC fighters > everyone else arguement. I'm on the side of some fighters > some other fighters, not the old ORG arguement.
CryingEmo
Well-known member
PRIDE middleweight + 1 LB = Heavy Weight.
Fighters like Liddell walk around as heavyweights, yet cut 20-30 LB's to make light heavy. So they aren't fighting at their natural weights either. Whatever you weigh at the time is your weight class....
Alexander
Well-known member
I wasn't really using MMAmath at all, just pointing out that Lindland is obviously a very serious threat to pretty much anyone if he can give a complete fighter like Rampage that much trouble. If Fedor was a huge HW that I can see the arguement of Lindland being a MW holding more weight, but Fedor only walks around 25 pounds heavier than Lindland. It matters, but not a huge size difference.
Alexander
Well-known member
I think for HMC it would be more like "will HMC catch him with a giant sized hammer fist". Not as much of a threat as Randy "controlling" or Barnett "overpowering", but a decent threat. Besides Randy/Barnett/GG, I don't see anyone being much of a threat, and none of those guys have better than a 30% chance against Fedor.
Dancebot 2000
Active member
Part if the problem is what if someone like Choi beat him. A guy like Choi has basically no chance against Fedor, but no chance in MMA means short of something strange happening, he's got no chance. To risk his legacy in this way is crazy. Choi was not a worth while opponent.
Dancebot 2000
Active member
But Lindland is only successful at 185. He's not a valid contender at HW. Admittedly, Fedor is more like a 205er who chooses not to cut.
size
Well-known member
Lindland wrestled at 167lbs so him fighting at heavyweight certainly is not natural for him. However, it was still a very solid victory for Fedor as Lindland is (in my mind) is one of the top fighters in the world.
Hunt is a very legit fighter. I think he could beat every HW in the UFC due to his head of concrete.
I think this victory by Fedor is impressive. HMC went the distance with LeBanner in kickboxing so he is not a talentless fighter. Of course, HMC size is an advantage and anyone who fight him will has to be cautious.
Fedor had an opponent put in front of him and Fedor disposed of him like all the others. I continue to be impressed by his ability to beat any and everyone.
I would like to see Barnett fight Fedor next. Or Barnett vs. Couture so Barnett could beat Couture again and then go on to fight Fedor.
Hunt is a very legit fighter. I think he could beat every HW in the UFC due to his head of concrete.
I think this victory by Fedor is impressive. HMC went the distance with LeBanner in kickboxing so he is not a talentless fighter. Of course, HMC size is an advantage and anyone who fight him will has to be cautious.
Fedor had an opponent put in front of him and Fedor disposed of him like all the others. I continue to be impressed by his ability to beat any and everyone.
I would like to see Barnett fight Fedor next. Or Barnett vs. Couture so Barnett could beat Couture again and then go on to fight Fedor.
Dancebot 2000
Active member
Hunt would beat any striker in the UFC, but he's to suceptable to grapplers. I really hope he keeps training, he looks better with every fight.
Although Linland gives anyone a hard time, he would not be considered neat the top 20 at HW.
Fedor, even though he's fighting opponents he shouldn't, still looks impressive in those victories.
I just want Barnett fighting again.
Alexander
Well-known member
Having a little bit of trouble understanding your post, but I agree Choi was not really a worth while opponent, but who is? Besides the 3 guys that I named above, no one is worth while. Monson, Rizzo, Sylvia, etc, these guys don't have any better chance than Choi.
This is a serious question. Do you guys think Couture would defeat Choi, and how?
Alexander
Well-known member
The link failed for me. **********Below are spoilers*********
I've only seen a few of the fights, pretty much every fight ended with a decision, except Fedor's, Zentsov/Russow and Akiyama/Misaki.
Akiyama/Misaki was a good fight. Misaki came out ridiculously pumped and Akiyama was very calm. The whole fight was standing and Akiyama hit Misaki with a combo that dropped Misaki. Misaki appeared to be finished, and Akiyama pounced on him, but Misaki recovered and Akiyama could not finish him. Then about 2 minutes later Misaki caught Akiyama with a punch that dropped Akiyama and when Akiyama tried to get up Misaki soccer kicked him in the face, effectively ending the fight. It was good though.
Russow, the dude who Kharitonov armbarred in the last Pride USA event, finished Zentsov with a north/south choke. I don't understand how Zentsov can't learn submission defense training with Fedor.
The rest were all decisions and I've yet to watch any of them. I'll probably post a couple of the fights in the Multimedia thread later on.
AE14
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come on, Lindland is great at 185, and very good at 205 but at HW, thats not legit IMO
AE14
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Did you watch the Lindland/Fedor fight? There was no tooling until the very end
AE14
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Let me just clarify, I am not saying anything bad about Fedor, he does what he needs to and is the best, I just wanna see a fight with him where there is a chance he willl struggle. HMC did not pose that threat, and his most recent opponents didnt either.
Also, about Hunt, I agree in standup he is dominant, but other HW's in teh UFC would kill him IMO due to the wrestling and subs. He is very suceptible (damn I cant spell)
Also, about Hunt, I agree in standup he is dominant, but other HW's in teh UFC would kill him IMO due to the wrestling and subs. He is very suceptible (damn I cant spell)
Alexander
Well-known member
That was rude. Of course I watched the Lindland/Fedor fight. Call it what you want, he lost in 3.5 minutes.
AE14
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I apologize if you thought it was rude, not offense intended. All I was saying is that Lindland was doing a solid job until the end and he got caught in a brutal arm bar. Not a tooling IMO
Alexander
Well-known member
Nobody currently can pose that threat though. Couture would get dealt with just like Lindland did, probably just take Fedor a few more minutes. He's that damn good.
Alexander
Well-known member
You're right, I apologize, I get heated when talking about Fedor and lose my wits. He didn't get tooled, had underhooks and was kind of man handling Fedor. Once it hit the ground Fedor was all over him, but the rope grabbing was definitely a factor.
AE14
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I agree that far and away Fedor is #1, the craziest thing is how scary he is on the ground, he can pull submissions from anywhere. I was surprised people didnt go looney on him for the rope grab.
AE14
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I agree. I think that Couture will try to be smart about it, but once its on the ground it will be over in a minute or two. I would like to see barnett and even Big Tim. I think that tims takedown defense might actually allow it to go a few rounds. Tim would still lose but he might last a bit
Alexander
Well-known member
Yup. I think Barnett is the biggest threat and if he got side mount on Fedor I would be a nervous wreck. Fedor is so crafty, he would probably find a way out. Sylvia's chin is not the best, and Fedor might assault him like he did Goodridge. If Tim fought like he did back in 05 he is a threat to almost anyone. Tough to take him down and he had KO power, now he seems to have adopted the Bruce Lee "1 inch punch" philosophy. How do you think a Sylvia/HMC fight would pan out?
Dancebot 2000
Active member
I'm saying he shouldn't risk (albeit a small risk) losing to someone like Choi who isn't on anyones top fighter list. Sorry, as I was writing it, I knew it was confusing. Any of the guys you mentioned I think would have a better chance than Choi.
I think Couture, with his mediocore sub skills, would do exactly what Fedor did, or sweep him. There is so much room to manuver under HMC from the bottom. The armbar Fedor used was perfect, but it was the most basic way to use an armbar from the guard. It was the first one I learned; trap an arm swing one leg over and you've got it. It worked twice for him with no effort because HMC's arms are so long, and He dosen't know how to stop it.
Alexander
Well-known member
Oh, ok, I got you. I doubt Couture would have any luck sweeping him and I have never seen Couture sub anyone except Van Arsdale with a Anaconda and an early UFC he had a RNC on some big black guy whose name escapes me. I think Couture would find a way to win, just can't imagine him using an armbar from the bottom. Couture is the man, but it would be somewhat of a bad style match up for him, IMO. Like you said earlier, a lot of sub defense practice and HMC could be very dangerous. He's just a freak, LeBanner said every time he hit HMC it hurt his fists, like hitting a brick wall.
jas123
Well-known member
You're giving too much love to HMC for a fight where he didn't do anything that impressive. He'd get beat by a lot of guys including Justin Eilers.
Fedor may have won against Linland, but he lost my respect. His girlish Russian skin was sliced wide when Linland fist went through it like a hot knife through butter. Prior to the pathetic rope grabbing, Linland was going to slam Fedor poetically to the mat. One might even have called it slam poetry. Lindland may have lost but he won my heart. :twisted:
Rampage fought Lindland prior to the 2.0 Ibarra upgrade.
Seriously, though, I'm surprised Ishida took out Melendez and Misaki took out Akiyama. I'll have to try and catch those.
Fedor may have won against Linland, but he lost my respect. His girlish Russian skin was sliced wide when Linland fist went through it like a hot knife through butter. Prior to the pathetic rope grabbing, Linland was going to slam Fedor poetically to the mat. One might even have called it slam poetry. Lindland may have lost but he won my heart. :twisted:
Rampage fought Lindland prior to the 2.0 Ibarra upgrade.
Seriously, though, I'm surprised Ishida took out Melendez and Misaki took out Akiyama. I'll have to try and catch those.
CryingEmo
Well-known member
I'm not sure if you're joking, but if you're complaining about fedor's rope grab, then you need to also hold everyone else to the same standards. You'd then realize that just about everyone grabs the cage or rope at some point in their MMA career.
pistonpump
Banned
fedor looked sooooo small kinda funny.