Unusual submissions

Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,071
    Rep Power
    917996

    Unusual submissions


    I am trying to expand my game and learn a few new subs that are possible in MMA. I have recently learned the brabo and d'arce chokes and I already know the basics (keylock, kimura, armbar, RNC, guillotine, etc). Does anyone know any uncommon subs that you have found to be useful?

    Brabo
    Darce
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

  2. Registered User
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3,081
    Rep Power
    1634

    I've found the bicep slicer to be pretty useful. Especially if you set it up properly. You could start working from spider guard and set up the sub that way.

    YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
  3. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,071
    Rep Power
    917996

    I have tried to incorporate splicers, but they are very difficult to get w/o a gi after about 2 minutes of rolling.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    •   
       

  4. Registered User
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3,081
    Rep Power
    1634

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I have tried to incorporate splicers, but they are very difficult to get w/o a gi after about 2 minutes of rolling.
    Yeah i know what you mean with the whole sweat issue. How about pulling an opponent down with your hips while their in your guard... while working an arm drag, then start to take their back, but instead of taking their back, lock their nearest arm against your chest, and then throw your leg under their chin... arm bar, but it's pretty effective.
  5. Registered User
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3,081
    Rep Power
    1634

    Triangle's seem to be the most effective submission in no GI. I'd suggest working on different setups for the triangle. Like failed armbar to triangle transitions. There is also the reverse triangle.
  6. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,071
    Rep Power
    917996

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    Yeah i know what you mean with the whole sweat issue. How about pulling an opponent down with your hips while their in your guard... while working an arm drag, then start to take their back, but instead of taking their back, lock their nearest arm against your chest, and then throw your leg under their chin... arm bar, but it's pretty effective.
    Possible, but I am really just trying to expand my repertoire of subs. I know that there tons of variations of an armbar and I can usually pull one off from every position except for half-guard. I have been able to get off the brabo/darce/anaconda chokes because they can be set-up from the same position. You should try them next time.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  7. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,071
    Rep Power
    917996

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    Triangle's seem to be the most effective submission in no GI. I'd suggest working on different setups for the triangle. Like failed armbar to triangle transitions. There is also the reverse triangle.
    I suck at triangles. It has been the most difficult subs to pul of against anyone with experience. I can never quite break them down and they pass into side-mount.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  8. Registered User
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3,081
    Rep Power
    1634

    What about the infamous gogoplata, ever try that?
  9. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,071
    Rep Power
    917996

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    What about the infamous gogoplata, ever try that?
    Yes I have. I have never pulled it off, but I have gotten close. Most of the time, I just switch into an omoplata.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  10. Registered User
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3,081
    Rep Power
    1634

    It's hard to pull off a sub when people muscle the hell out of you and keep there base. The good news is that they tire themselves out eventually.
  11. Registered User
    UNCfan1's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1,949
    Rep Power
    1064

    The darce sub was pretty sick! I would like to see him pull it off while the other guy was fighting. Good stuff.
  12. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,071
    Rep Power
    917996

    Quote Originally Posted by UNCfan1 View Post
    The darce sub was pretty sick! I would like to see him pull it off while the other guy was fighting. Good stuff.
    It is not that hard to pull off really. It is usually in one quick motion once you get in the Gable grip. It is also great that you can seamlessly transition from a darce to a brabo. Like I was saying, these are not taught nearly as much as most subs. I have caught several purple belts in it and afterwards they all ask,"What the hell was that!?"
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  13. Registered User
    jas123's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Hiroshima
    Age
    35
    Posts
    4,066
    Rep Power
    2158

    How about the Cobra Hold? Is that practical?
  14. Registered User
    UNCfan1's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1,949
    Rep Power
    1064

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    It is not that hard to pull off really. It is usually in one quick motion once you get in the Gable grip. It is also great that you can seamlessly transition from a darce to a brabo. Like I was saying, these are not taught nearly as much as most subs. I have caught several purple belts in it and afterwards they all ask,"What the hell was that!?"
    LOL it looked hard to me, maybe cause I can only pull off the easy ones like rear naked and arm bars.

    Dude do u have any fights on video?
  15. Ziv
    Ziv is offline
    Carlos Hath****
    Ziv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    77
    Rep Power
    158

    good thread. i learn a lot today
  16. Registered User
    BigAsTheSky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    44
    Rep Power
    109

    Have you looked a any leg/ankle submissions? I've noticed that lots of guys overlook these and the current game most guys have right now leaves them wide open for it (at some point at least). One of the reason I think most people are neglecting these b/c they are not a easy to lock. However, if you've ever been on the receiving end you'll see a whole new world of pain.
  17. Registered User
    Tattooed76's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Age
    38
    Posts
    67
    Rep Power
    122

    I will see if I can post this correctly

    Arm Choke
  18. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,071
    Rep Power
    917996

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAsTheSky View Post
    Have you looked a any leg/ankle submissions? I've noticed that lots of guys overlook these and the current game most guys have right now leaves them wide open for it (at some point at least). One of the reason I think most people are neglecting these b/c they are not a easy to lock. However, if you've ever been on the receiving end you'll see a whole new world of pain.
    Leg submissions used to be very prominent, but they are generally not taught in BJJ. I use ankle locks, kneebars, and toe holds, but they are not a big part of my game. Actually, I would love to finish a fight with a good kneebar.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  19. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,071
    Rep Power
    917996

    Quote Originally Posted by Tattooed76 View Post
    I will see if I can post this correctly

    Arm Choke
    I have seen that before, but I was taught it as the baseball choke. I am not a big fan because of the amount of space that is created when trying to secure the lock. It could be used as a good sub for baiting an opponent into another sub though.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  20. Registered User
    BigAsTheSky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    44
    Rep Power
    109

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Leg submissions used to be very prominent, but they are generally not taught in BJJ. I use ankle locks, kneebars, and toe holds, but they are not a big part of my game. Actually, I would love to finish a fight with a good kneebar.

    Not being a part of BJJ is why I thing they are wide open right now. Most of your MMA guys are getting their ground training from BJJ guys and they haven't seen them that much. Add a couple of the easier, faster ones to your tool set... ones that you can set up while he's on his back and you're standing (like after you stand up out of his guard) and I think you'd be surprised how often you can get it. They are just not expecting it.
  21. Gold Member
    Beowulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Boston
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,430
    Rep Power
    2149

    I agree that leg subs are underused, but most are really dangerous to the person going for the sub. You usually give up position, and you need both arms to secure it, which leaves you open to getting pounded. Remember Pe De Pano vs. Arlovski? I've seen other examples too. A kid I trained with was pretty much dominating a fight. He went for a leg lock, the other guy got up and started unloading, and my teammate almost got TKO'd. I would only go for it during a good scramble. If the other guy isn't flat on his back, you could be in trouble.

    I do, however, think that the kneebar has a good balance of risk to reward. And you can easily transition to a nice toehold if you don't get the kneebar.
  22. Gold Member
    Beowulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Boston
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,430
    Rep Power
    2149

    I don't know what it is called, but I know a nice North/South choke that works well from a guillotine escape. I'll try to describe it.

    If you are caught in a standing guillotine...(sorry, I'm watching fight girls for the first time. Are the Thai chicks that bad, or are they taking dives?)...anyway, if you can finish the takedown or he pulls guard, and you can escape to side control on the opposite side of where he has the guillotine, try to dig your chin into his ribs and start working your way toward N/S. If you get there, slide one arm under his neck and grab the forearm on the other arm. Your arms become like a scissor. Dig your fist into his aorta. Pull back with your upper back/traps to increase pressure. If your raise up a bit, you increase it even more, as your arms close like scissors.

    You can use this choke from any position, though it works better in some. You can even do it when you have full guard. Break his posture and lock it up. If he tries to pull up out of it, he will just increase the pressure for you. If he stays low, you have to rely on your arms. It will wear him out, if not slowly choke him out if he stays down. He will definitely waste a ton of energy trying to escape, so even if he gets out, he'll be worn, and you don't have to put much energy into it.

    It's one of those chokes that can sneak up on the guy, b/c you don't feel too much pressure b/c it is just a blood choke with no extreme discomfort.
  23. Registered User
    ersatz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    The carnival of American decay on parade
    Posts
    1,311
    Rep Power
    784

    Kneebars are quite difficult to pull off but you can transition to ankle or foot locks. Still not worth it though IMO. Leg subs aren't used too often because they are fairly easy to escape and you can take a lot of punishment trying to get one.

    While unusual subs look impressive they just aren't worth it. Better off perfecting your armbar, triangle, kimura and guillotine chokes.
  24. Registered User
    scorpiond's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Age
    42
    Posts
    31
    Rep Power
    104

    Guys this is off the subject somewhat, but I've got a question for you experienced fighters. I love watching good submissions in competitions, but are submissions practical and/or effective in confrontations outside of the ring or octagon meaning street fights?
  25. Gold Member
    Beowulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Boston
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,430
    Rep Power
    2149

    I am not a fighter, I just train, and I haven't been in a street fight since I was a teenager, so I don't really know, but I can tell you that when I roll with my friends I smoke them. One buddy has about 70lbs on me, was in the military, and is a cop, so he's done a ton of hand-to-hand training. He is heavy if he gets on top, but I pretty much schooled him. The only thing I would say is a lot of bottom subs would be dangerous on pavement because you can get slammed from an armbar or choke. A kimura from the bottom would probably work well. Top position would work very well. I also imagine a lot of guys would give up their back without thinking and would be very susceptible to the RNC.
  26. Registered User
    jas123's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Hiroshima
    Age
    35
    Posts
    4,066
    Rep Power
    2158

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf View Post
    IThe only thing I would say is a lot of bottom subs would be dangerous on pavement because you can get slammed from an armbar or choke.
    See the Noah-Marlon street fight in TUF 5.
  27. Registered User
    BigAsTheSky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    44
    Rep Power
    109

    Grappling and on-the-ground subs work just fine as long as you're 100% sure you're in a controlled environment and will not get a boot or beer bottle to the head. However, in reality you need to be able to pull it off really, really quickly and take your attacker out, not submit him.

    I'm from the school of, "If I've got to fight (outside of the ring/mat) someone is going to get seriously injured." I train JKD and most of the more civilized, experienced folks who come in are appaled as how unfair we train. The first day I always tell them (folks with experience) to not be surprised if I bite, eye gouge, fish hook, head butt or put them in a face lock where they think I might break their neck when we roll. Most of them are cool with it but they all agree that it would never go over at a BJJ or Judo school.

    At the end of the day it comes down to this... MMA is a sport and you have to "play by the rules", fighting for your life is not a sport and you do whatever you have to in order to get out alive. You perform like you train.
  28. Registered User
    texxlnghorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    156
    Rep Power
    166

    ^^^^
    That's why you need to have an all around game, in the real world.
    If your at a bar or shooting pool with your g.f. I wouldn't want to go to the ground. Where a friend could sucker punch you.

    If you can kick and punch, I think most trained guys can take on two guys that don't know how to fight.
  29. Registered User
    ersatz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    The carnival of American decay on parade
    Posts
    1,311
    Rep Power
    784

    Quote Originally Posted by jas123 View Post
    See the Noah-Marlon street fight in TUF 5.
    That's why you grab the guy's ankle /calf to prevent him from rising up and slamming you.

    Quote Originally Posted by texxlnghorn View Post
    ^^^^
    That's why you need to have an all around game, in the real world.
    If your at a bar or shooting pool with your g.f. I wouldn't want to go to the ground. Where a friend could sucker punch you.

    If you can kick and punch, I think most trained guys can take on two guys that don't know how to fight.

    "Real world" fights are breed until themselves and you can't really ever be prepared for them. There's entirely too many variables to ever predict any outcome or train for every situation. You can get sucker punched or fight multiple assailants standing or on the ground. If you have to pull guard I would opt to just throw downward elbows to your opponents head, then maybe go for a sub. But the problem with subs is how far do you go? You pop his shoulder, elbow or ankle but will that take the fight out of him? Should you continue to hit him into unconsciousness? My feeling is if you're going to go for a sub it should be a choke otehrwise be prepared to pound the guy into unconsciousness.
  30. Gold Member
    Beowulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Boston
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,430
    Rep Power
    2149

    In a street situation, if you're going to use JJ, you definitely need to pop the shoulder/elbow/knee (hey, a heelhook could happen on the street ), but I agree that a choke would be ideal, b/c you can put him to sleep, he won't know what happened, and you are less likely to avoid potential legal problems b/c chokes don't really hurt people, they just neutralize them.

    That's why you grab the guy's ankle /calf to prevent him from rising up and slamming you.
    That is true, but you leave your face somewhat exposed if you dedicate an arm to securing his leg. You can grab for a second though, as he tries to get up.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. What are some unusual bands do you listen to?
    By Cold in forum General Chat
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 06-03-2006, 02:30 PM
  2. Unusual Results
    By GTOman in forum Training Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-12-2005, 01:03 PM
  3. Unusual muscle aches
    By Bluecifer in forum Exercise Science
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-24-2005, 04:33 PM
  4. unusual "pain" & superdrol
    By julius kelp in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-19-2005, 05:46 PM
  5. IGF-1 / Slin = Unusual Muscle Cramping
    By Poobah in forum IGF-1/GH
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-11-2005, 09:21 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in