The Controversial Decisions Thread

  1. The Controversial Decisions Thread


    With the Griffin-Guida hoopla going on right now, I thought this would be a good time start a thread where we discuss controversial decisions. Posting links to the fight would be a good idea to make this easier.

    I will start with:
    Wand/Arona 2
    Wand/Arona2
    I agree with the decision here; Wand avoided many takedowns, was the aggressor, and tried to finish the fight.
    Wand/Hunt
    Wand/Hunt
    I do not agree with this. Wand controlled the pace with his striking and TD's. Hunt did knock Wand down, but, overall, I think that he did not do enough to win, especially since a large weight advantage factors into the PRIDE judging criteria.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys



  2. I thought Wand beat Arona in the 2nd one, reversing many of his takedown attempts and landing more (although not much) on the feet. It was dead even IMO until Arona pulled guard with 1:00 left. I thought that justified the win for Wand.

    Hunt-Wand was really close. I would have to watch it for a 10th time again to decide.

    Mezger/Arona - I thought Mezger got screwed in this one. (No link available)

    Randy-Vitor II - a little different, but this should have been a no contest IMO.

  3. Mezger has gotten the shaft on more than one occasion in PRIDE.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

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  4. Yeah, that's true for sure.

    Thinking back to Hunt-Wandy. I thought Wandy might have won that one. He came out swinging for the fences in the third for the first 2 minutes and was really aggressive after taking a pounding in the 2nd. Even after he got knocked down in the 2nd and was getting pounded, he threw a decent armbar attempt. With the 10 kilo difference in the scoring, I thought he won. We may both be a little pro-Wandy, though, Rodja.

    Herring-Belfort was a really bad decision as I recall. Herring dominated the whole time, but the 10 kilo weight difference somehow cancelled that out completely.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by jas123 View Post
    Yeah, that's true for sure.

    Thinking back to Hunt-Wandy. I thought Wandy might have won that one. He came out swinging for the fences in the third for the first 2 minutes and was really aggressive after taking a pounding in the 2nd. Even after he got knocked down in the 2nd and was getting pounded, he threw a decent armbar attempt. With the 10 kilo difference in the scoring, I thought he won. We may both be a little pro-Wandy, though, Rodja.

    Herring-Belfort was a really bad decision as I recall. Herring dominated the whole time, but the 10 kilo weight difference somehow cancelled that out completely.
    Herring definitely won that fight.

    The Bas/Randleman was the biggest shaft ever. There is no way Bas won that fight.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  6. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    With the Griffin-Guida hoopla going on right now, I thought this would be a good time start a thread where we discuss controversial decisions. Posting links to the fight would be a good idea to make this easier.

    I will start with:
    Wand/Arona 2
    Wand/Arona2
    I agree with the decision here; Wand avoided many takedowns, was the aggressor, and tried to finish the fight.
    Wand/Hunt
    Wand/Hunt
    I do not agree with this. Wand controlled the pace with his striking and TD's. Hunt did knock Wand down, but, overall, I think that he did not do enough to win, especially since a large weight advantage factors into the PRIDE judging criteria.
    not biased toward wand are you?

  7. Randleman got screwed royally in that one. The only thing that I can think of is that they scored striking off the back more in that era whereas they don't really score it at all in this era.

    OT: My bro's bjj instructor was at a Vale Tudo event way back when and said that Igor was mounted and Koed a guy from the bottom. If anyone knows of this fight, please let me know.

  8. Ninja vs Hendo. Havn't seen the fight for a while, but I remember Ninja controlling most of the fight, and then Dan wins the last few minutes and they give him the decision. Finish strong in Pride.

  9. Ninja/Rampage as well. You can tell at the decision that Rampage knows that he lost and he apologizes to Ninja.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  10. there are always bad decisions and it was Guida who said you should never leave it in the judges hands

  11. So Ninja vs. Mezger in Pride. Who gets screwed in a close decision?

  12. Quote Originally Posted by jas123 View Post
    So Ninja vs. Mezger in Pride. Who gets screwed in a close decision?
    Probably Mezger; he is one of those guys that, if the decisions went his way, would have been a legend.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  13. I agree about Mezger, however the first fight with Tito was a friggin joke

  14. I think Nick Diaz has had a pretty rough time when it comes to decisions. A lot of that is because he prefers to fight off his back. If he doesn't finish a fight, he's almost gauranteed to lose the decision in the UFC.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Rufio View Post
    I think Nick Diaz has had a pretty rough time when it comes to decisions. A lot of that is because he prefers to fight off his back. If he doesn't finish a fight, he's almost gauranteed to lose the decision in the UFC.
    Very few BJJ guys get the respect they deserve in the UFC. The judges just do not understand the nature of BJJ is to have offense at every position on the ground.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  16. How about Ortiz/Belfort. I personally thought Vitor was robbed. I will have to watch the DVD again, but from what I remember Vitor was the agressor for most of the fight. Ortiz did take him down but nothing to bad. Vitor had some really nice bursts.

  17. Yeah, I always thought Vitor won that fight at least based on Pride's judging. The problem with the UFC's judging is that being on top is almost ALWAYS what gains points on the ground, and they seem to judge "X amount of time spent on top" vs. "X amount of time doing whatever else" instead of judging the actual damage done. What I mean is, even though Vitor did more damage, Tito spent more time in top position than Vitor spent punching him.

  18. Vitor won that fight. Tito used LnP to win that fight and the judges don't understand BJJ, so Vitor lost.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  19. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Wand controlled the pace with his striking and TD's. Hunt did knock Wand down, but, overall, I think that he did not do enough to win, especially since a large weight advantage factors into the PRIDE judging criteria.

    I was pissed..

    Wanderlei got robbed when he faught Hunt and CroCop the first time.

    He took hunt down so many times it was ridiculous and the guy outweighted him by 50 lbs. Hunt definitly did not do enough to get a decision over someone he has such a high weight advantage against. The japanese just wanted to fck with Vanderlei's winning streak.

  20. I haven't seen Tito-Vitor for a while, but I actually thought that fight was dead even.

  21. For really close fights, they should review the tapes, and mark down EACH blow, takedown...etc And then decide, like football!

  22. Fedor vs Arona (yeah, watch it...)
    Ricco Rodriguez vs Big Nog

  23. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo View Post
    Fedor vs Arona (yeah, watch it...)
    Ricco Rodriguez vs Big Nog
    I will agree that the Fedor v. Arona fight could be a decision in Arona's favor, but LnP will never be a victory to me.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  24. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I will agree that the Fedor v. Arona fight could be a decision in Arona's favor, but LnP will never be a victory to me.
    I actually think that was one of arona's more active fights. He mounted fedor like five times...

  25. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo View Post
    I actually think that was one of arona's more active fights. He mounted fedor like five times...
    Still, a mount w/o significant action does not warrant a victory. To me, the intention to finish the fight is the most important part.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  26. Good luck tapping fedor, I don't care who you are In the end, arona controlled that fight and fedor was on the defensive the whole time...

    Of course, that wouldn't go the same way again, even if I think style wise arona is a bad matchup for fedor, the overall skill difference is too large.

  27. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the first fight between Randy Couture and Pedro Rizzo. I thought Pedro had that fight in the bag.

    I'm also gonna throw BJ/GSP in there as well. I thought BJ clearly won the fight, but it was given to GSP on a few takedowns that he never used for offense. True, BJ should have been more into the fight, but I see this fight as an argument against the 10-point must system.

    How do you guys feel about the 10-point must in MMA?

  28. Quote Originally Posted by MisterEZE View Post
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned the first fight between Randy Couture and Pedro Rizzo. I thought Pedro had that fight in the bag.

    I'm also gonna throw BJ/GSP in there as well. I thought BJ clearly won the fight, but it was given to GSP on a few takedowns that he never used for offense. True, BJ should have been more into the fight, but I see this fight as an argument against the 10-point must system.

    How do you guys feel about the 10-point must in MMA?
    The BJ/GSP fight shows the over-emphasis on takedowns in the UFC. GSP was given the victory for only a couple of takedowns w/o any damage. The 10 point must system is not bad and there are few times when I think it interferes with the decision. I just wish there was more understanding that submissions ranked as highly as strikes. Even if a guy is on his back, if he is throwing subs then he should get as many points as the guy throwing short strikes within the guard.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  29. Fedor won the overtime vs. Arona as I recall. If you want to argue that Arona should have won in the regular time, then it sounds legit. I don't know the official Rings scoring system, though.

    Rizzo definitely beat Randy the first time, 48-47 as I saw it. Couture's leg took a brutal beating.
  

  
 

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