- 03-29-2007, 03:20 PM
It doesn't matter what weight class Sherk and Diaz fought at because their fight weight is the same as it was at 170. They cut weight to make the limits, then balloon back up to their walk around weight.
When top boxers or wrestlers move weight classes, they are automatic contenders in their new class. Hell, Randy was a top contender when he dropped from heavyweight.
And that's the way it should be. A fighter's career is not a series of independent stages, each in their own vacuum. It's a continuous flow. As such, it's just extremely bizarre to discount everything that has happened before X point in their career and act as if they're some noob that needs many years to prove themself.
My fanboyism aside, it's completely disrespectful to Sherk to not even have him on the list, just as it's completely disrespectful for Gomi to still be ranked ahead of Diaz, Sakurai ranked ahead of Gomi, and Yamamoto to even be on the list.
It just doesn't make sense on multiple levels.
- 03-29-2007, 03:41 PM
Sherk is 31-2 -1 with his last loss coming from GSP, who cuts like freaking crazy to make 170. Plus he beat Diaz 2 fights ago. Sherk is worthy of #1, just like Fedor should be #1 in LHW if he cut to 205 and beat any top 4-5 LHW fighter in the world. It doesnt matter how many fights hes had at 155. His record at a heavier weight class, plus beating Diaz makes him top 2-3 at the very least, if not #1 at 155. His last fight at 155 automatically should put him in the top of the 155 rankings. I just dont buy the notion of fighting in a tougher weight class, dominating the **** out of it, then having to dominate the lighter weight class for 4-5 fights to get in the rankings.
- 03-29-2007, 03:52 PM
So should Soukoudju be ranked ~ #6 at LHW and Nog behind him? Crocop didn't fall that far when he lost to Hunt (this wasn't a lucky punch win like Souk). I think Diaz is still behind Gomi until he beats more people. He's still got a losing record in his last 5-7 fights so Diaz shouldn't bump up that high. Gomi looked off and out of shape, but I think he's still one of the best. He should drop to around 5th.\
Edit: I take it back, he's 4-3 in his last 7.
03-29-2007, 04:06 PM
But now we're getting into the same deal that we have with non-title fights- if a champion loses a non-title fight, how can he REALLY still be considered champion? He just lost.
Similarly, how can the #1 guy be ranked ahead of the guy who just beat him?
It's like saying "Well, he shouldn't be champion even though he just beat the champion. He needs a few more fights."
If this is how they're going to rank fighters, then why have a ranking system at all? It becomes meaningless.
03-29-2007, 04:07 PM
Diaz lost to Sherk (nothing to be ashamed of, he is ahead of Gomi if you ask me), Diego (fights at 170 and undefeated), and Joe Riggz. All by decision, with most of the points proboly scored on takedowns that did little damage, and in a heavier weight class. Also in the best weight class in UFC, and the best and most competetive division in all of MMA hands down. Diaz belongs ahead of Gomi, and if you are a fighter and show up out of shape thats no excuse. If you ask me Gomi was rocked more than out of shape. If Gomi gassed at the end of a 5 minute round, he should drop out of the top 10 all together because he shouldnt even be considered a fighter. Its like a marathon runner only being able to make it 10 miles before collapsing.
03-29-2007, 04:17 PM
Diaz didn't deserve a title shot. He wasn't a #1 contender. He was brought in because people knew who he was. You don't go from #15 to #2 or whatever in my book because of 1 fight. That's my point. If Linland would lose to Hendo, Franklin, Filho 100% of the time (hypothetically) but beat Anderson Silva 100% of the time yet Anderson beats the other 3 100% of the time. Then who is #1? It's a matter of opinion at that point. I don't see a point in arguing it further, though. Rankings are somewhat subjective, and we'll never all agree.
03-29-2007, 04:37 PM
Actually, marathoners do frequently drop out if they aren't in the shape they expected. They don't want to waste themselves physically on a subpar performance. That isn't really relevant; just for the sake of argument. Gomi is not a marathoner, and coming in out of shape in a fight is asking for a career-shortening injury. I don't know what he was smoking (maybe Diaz hooked him up before the fight). As far as I'm concerned, his title is a joke.
I'm sure the top 10 at LW will be shaken up in the coming year. Props to CNorris for including Joe Lauzon in the up-and-comers I think the UFC will have a ton in store for us in the coming year, even without migration from PRIDE.
CNorris, we bust balls a lot here, but it's all in good fun . Nothing personal.
I have to agree with Jas123. This stuff is highly subjective. The only way to know for sure is for everyone to fight everyone, which will hopefully become a reality soon.
03-29-2007, 04:37 PM
I agree Diaz didn't deserve a title shot. And that being the case, he shouldn't have been matched with Gomi. If he doesn't deserve a title shot, then don't let him fight the champ. But he was matched with the champ and he won.
The whole point of a champion is to see who the best is. You take on all comers because you are the man and you must continually prove that to stay the champion. If you fight and you lose, you should no longer be the champ because you're no longer the best.
Being champion isn't supposed to mean that you can pick and choose when your belt is on the line. That's not a true champion.
It should be the same situation with rankings. If you are #1 and you lose, then you're not #1 anymore and the guy who just beat you certainly shouldn't be ranked below you. That defeats the whole purpose of having rankings.
I dunno. I just think there should be more thought put into this kind of thing.
03-29-2007, 04:39 PM
03-29-2007, 05:08 PM
03-29-2007, 08:50 PM
My bad, I thought this was a thread about the Monopolization of MMA.
It's interesting to critique the rationale that these media wags use to rank with, and It's always fun to b***h about the wrong of things, but since these are not the official rankings that determine matchups, It's just a minor consideration.
Don't get worked about it SS, stop d*****g around on this trivial stuff and get the old and new versions of HEAT avaliable to buy, Mr. Vice President.
03-29-2007, 11:04 PM
03-30-2007, 12:21 AM
Hopefully one of the better things to come from the UFC-Pride ownership unification is to settle the ranking stuff.
The weight classes will be uniform.
What do y'all think- Gomi, Kawajiri, etc. at 170 or 155? I would think 170 for Gomi, at least. He'll get destroyed either way, though.
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