UFN discussion thread

[jas123]

Well, it's here, UFN 8. I saw a comercial on Spike showing the Herring kiss incident. Another bit of info is that Price wieghed in a 7 freakin' lbs over weight for his fight against Short Fuse. Not that it matters since Herman is the real deal:twisted: Somehow I overlooked the Fisher-Franca fight. This is a great fight that is hard to pick IMO.

picks
Rashad
Herring
Fisher by TKO late round (Franca can be a slow starter)
Marquardt by decision
Herman
Burkman
Clay
Clementi

 

[Alexander]

Yes, Short fuse is the real deal. I agree with you on 5 out of 8. I'm picking Price to beat Herman, Thomas over Clay, and the british bomber to beat Rich Clementi. I think I'm actually looking forward to Couture on Joes vs the Pros more than UFN8. Everybody make sure to keep it tuned to Spike for Joes vs Pros after the fights!

 

[jas123]

I wasn't too impressed with Price against Grove. Even if he wins, his victory will be tainted by the weight issues. Herman told Price at the weigh in, "You're not getting off that easy" after he didn't make weight. What a clown.

The more I think about Rich C ain't that great so that one is a toss up.

 

[MisterEZE]

I have a feeling Rashad will show up in a big way tonight. After finishing Lambert...tons of confidence! This guy is the real deal in my book. That said...

Rashad
Herring
Franca
Marquardt
Herman
Burkman
Guida
Clementi

Not too impressive of a card overall. Potential for a lot of snoozers. Marquardt/Lister is not going to be a great fight. Herman has too much riding on this fight so I'll bet he plays it safe = boring. Burkman should put on a good show. Franca/Fisher will be fight of the night.

 

[Alexander]

0-3 so far, I wonder if I can go 0-8. If you'd like to win some money bet me on MMA!

 

[Rodja]

Holy head kick...I did not see that coming by Rashad. Hell of a KO.

 

[Alexander]

Hope Salmon is O.K. That looked pretty bad. The 1 and a half shots after the kick didn't help.

 

[papa G]

Herring just got owned!

 

[Alexander]

Herring just got owned!

Yup, and his excuses afterwards were BS. His career looks to be taking a Mir-like turn for the worse.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

No kidding, I felt personally slighted with the complete lack of effort by Herring. Did anybody expect that from Evans? I didn't even know he was capable of a RHK, let alone able to execute such as he did.

Herman over Price was a slick sub. I still refuse to admit he has talent just because he told me he does on TUF.

 

[Beowulf]

Man, that Herring fight was depressing. His ground game was utterly pathetic. What the hell was that? He looked better against Crocop, Fedor and Nog. I really hope this was just a matter of succumbing to pressure and/or underestimating his opponent. How many shots does it take every time you throw to finally realize maybe you should follow up with a knee.

Salmon actually did well in the first, though his standup looked pretty bad. I was really impressed with Rashad's ability to stand up straight from Salmon's side control, although Salmon's hips did appear to be way too high in that position.

Overall, not bad for a free night of fights. Franca didn't look pretty, but he was effective as hell. I never thought he'd win it like that. It'll be interesting to see how he fairs with Sherk (we all know Savage's thoughts here). Franca also seems too active and high in top positions making it impossible to maintain control. If he ever actually ends up on top of Sherk (not likely), Sherk will sweep him easily.

 

[Alexander]

Even I have to admit that Sherk would whoop Franca.

 

[Guest]

Man, that Herring fight was depressing. His ground game was utterly pathetic. What the hell was that? He looked better against Crocop, Fedor and Nog. I really hope this was just a matter of succumbing to pressure and/or underestimating his opponent. How many shots does it take every time you throw to finally realize maybe you should follow up with a knee.

Salmon actually did well in the first, though his standup looked pretty bad. I was really impressed with Rashad's ability to stand up straight from Salmon's side control, although Salmon's hips did appear to be way too high in that position.

Overall, not bad for a free night of fights. Franca didn't look pretty, but he was effective as hell. I never thought he'd win it like that. It'll be interesting to see how he fairs with Sherk (we all know Savage's thoughts here). Franca also seems too active and high in top positions making it impossible to maintain control. If he ever actually ends up on top of Sherk (not likely), Sherk will sweep him easily.

He took a dive on purpose. His contract was bought out. He did not chose to go to the UFC. This is probably the only way of a UFC contract...a poor showing.

This dude went toe to toe with some sick Bjj black belts in the past. He was a white belt tonight.

 

[Dr Liftalot]

In the UFC your not allowed to knee a downed opponent. But thats still no excuse for that lack luster job, the rest of the fights happened as i expected. Though I thought Herm would have won by submission. Other then the let down herring put up, I'd like to comment on how nicely placed that head kick was. Rash really has improved his stand-up. I remember thinking HEAD KICK HEAD KICK HEAD KICK and then BOOM.

Overall pretty good UFN

 

[size]

Herring looked terrble. Honestly, it was as if he had only trained jujitsu for a week as he would just lay on his back and never even tried for sweeps or even escaping his hips. Hopefully, he can get it back together b/c he used to be a fun fighter to watch. Only positive thing I can say about him is that for how badly he was dominated, he suffered very little to no damage as it seems he was mostly just held down and hit with poor strikes.

Evans vs Salmon was entertaining. To me Salmon easily controlled the first round and looked solid. However, his stand up is rather awkward and needs to improve. Evans kick was very nice and really solid. I read today that Salmon was talking and seemed alright but was still going to the hospital to be observed.

Franca needs to improve his striking. He may have won but it is to sloppy. A quick straight puncher will land right down the middle on counters if Franca continues to throw those big open hooks.


One thing that conitnues to bother me in UFC, NO LEG KICKS! Evans should have kicked and kicked Salmon in his lead leg. Herring should have done the same thing. This really bothers me as it is a great technique that causes damage and really slows down the opponent. Only guy lately I see using them in UFC is GSP and look how well that worked.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

Although Evans head kick was impressive, I think that the only reason that he landed it was due to the element of surprise.

Question: Has evans EVER thrown a head kick before?

Now people will be looking for it, but damn that had some force behind it.

 

[jas123]

That was a sad performance by Herring. Mike Sloan from Sherdog actually called it, but I thought he was crazy. Herring looked like he hadn't trained in sprawling, wrestling, or jiu-jitsu. Pathetic and his "stand up so I can win now" attitude made him look worse.

Hermes' standup looked wilder than I remember it being. He's good but will lose to Sherk as others have said.

Herman's sub was pretty nice, but his take down looked weak as they have in the past. He'll get beat by a decent B level guy.

Rashad looked almost Crocop-like with that kick. That was great. I'd like to see him take on Tito next or maybe Babalu. Glads he's become more exciting. Salmon's wrestling looked pretty good.

How many times did they mention Nog last night? I wonder if they're trying to woo him away. They started mentioning Page a lot before they acquired him. Anyone see Marquardt-Lister or have a link? Sounds like Nate dominated.

 

[Beowulf]

He took a dive on purpose. His contract was bought out. He did not chose to go to the UFC. This is probably the only way of a UFC contract...a poor showing.

This dude went toe to toe with some sick Bjj black belts in the past. He was a white belt tonight.

I sorta hope that is true, b/c I always liked Herring in PRIDE. Win or lose, I hated seeing him looking like a chump who had never fought on the ground before.

There is a post-fight interview at ufc.com where he talks about having a torn MCL, ring rust, and the loss of knees to the head of a downed opponent as factors that detracted from his performance.

That fight was wrestling at its worst. Almost nothing was thrown, and Heath claims the cut was from an accidental headbutt. The one thing Heath showed was good RNC defense.

Could he have set a record for most times being mounted without being finished :think:

 

[Beowulf]

Franca will definitely get dominated by Sherk with that standup. I saw part of the Sherk/GSP fight last night on Unleashed, and while GSP clearly won, Sherk's standup looked pretty damn good, especially considering the reach disparity.

Hey Size, I think the lack of leg kicks by Herring may be due to the knee problem. I think he said he could only kick with his weaker leg. Salmon was definitely wide open for leg kicks. His lead leg is way out in front.

 

[Dr Liftalot]

Franca will definitely get dominated by Sherk with that standup. I saw part of the Sherk/GSP fight last night on Unleashed, and while GSP clearly won, Sherk's standup looked pretty damn good, especially considering the reach disparity.

Hey Size, I think the lack of leg kicks by Herring may be due to the knee problem. I think he said he could only kick with his weaker leg. Salmon was definitely wide open for leg kicks. His lead leg is way out in front.

Honestly Franca will get taken down and then sub Sherk. His Jujitsu game is way out of Sherks league. Don't get me wrong like the shark, just think he has a style that leaves him open to be subbed.


Styles make a fight


Dr liftalot

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Honestly Franca will get taken down and then sub Sherk. His Jujitsu game is way out of Sherks league. Don't get me wrong like the shark, just think he has a style that leaves him open to be subbed.


Styles make a fight


Dr liftalot

With how unorthodox and sloppy Franca's stand-up is the Shark may not be inclined to resort to his bread-and-butter. As Beo alluded to, if you watch the GSP/Sherk fight, GSP had a clear edge in the stand-up but it's evident Sherk is no chump when it comes to trading.

 

[Beowulf]

Agreed, but Sherk is freaky strong. Jiu-Jitsu does to some extent allow you to sub someone who is a lot stronger, but when you combine Sherk's strength advantage with his training, I don't know if Franca can take it. Sherk's not a BJJ master, but he certainly trains it and knows how to defend. Franca could easily sub a guy stronger than Sherk with no BJJ experience, but this situation is different.

BTW, just learned today that his name is pronounced Fransa.

 

[MisterEZE]

As much as I don't want to believe it, I'm somewhat inclined to agree with USP on the Herring fight. I've never seen Herring perform like that...ever. Sure, MCL injury is a huge factor, but the way he looked on the ground? I'll give O'brien credit for the win, but I don't think he deserves to be in a televised bout again (a la Marquardt). That was one of the worst fights I have ever watched. Herring hit him twice and dropped him twice...the guy has rolled with Nogueira and Fedor, then can't hold O'Brien's jock? Something was up.

Sorry for that incoherent rant. I'm not happy about it. However, here is something redeeming about UFN. I just can't resist.

 

[Dr Liftalot]

As much as I don't want to believe it, I'm somewhat inclined to agree with USP on the Herring fight. I've never seen Herring perform like that...ever. Sure, MCL injury is a huge factor, but the way he looked on the ground? I'll give O'brien credit for the win, but I don't think he deserves to be in a televised bout again (a la Marquardt). That was one of the worst fights I have ever watched. Herring hit him twice and dropped him twice...the guy has rolled with Nogueira and Fedor, then can't hold O'Brien's jock? Something was up.

Sorry for that incoherent rant. I'm not happy about it. However, here is something redeeming about UFN. I just can't resist.

Who knows maybe he threw the fight for money. Considering O'Brien was a huge underdog. Hell maybe Obrien's that good, its hard to say. Hopefully we will see old heath back and he won't be like vitor.

 

[Beowulf]

I was surprised by how easily Herring dropped O'Brien. O'B kept saying in the post fight interviews how that shot really took it out of him, but he just kept pushing. Looks can be deceiving, but there didn't seem to be much on that shot he took. I'd like to see it again. If one mediocre shot from Herring drops him, what would Sylvia do to him...never mind Crocop.

 

[size]

Hey Size, I think the lack of leg kicks by Herring may be due to the knee problem. I think he said he could only kick with his weaker leg. Salmon was definitely wide open for leg kicks. His lead leg is way out in front.

All of the fights lacked leg kicks along with most of the fights in the UFC. Seems to me alot of guys get overwhemlmed with the idea of having a big time fight instead of just winning. Consequently, they leave out leg kicks both inside and outside b/c they are not flashy despite being very effective.


In regards to Herring, I could believe that he threw the fight. Seems strange that he is taking down repeatedly yet suffers little to no damage from a heavyweight.

 

[stxnas]

Leg kicks are generally lacking in the UFC versus Pride, where you might see more in one fight than an entire UFC.
...

Herring was really out of shape, if his intention was too look so bad that he'll not get another chance in the UFC, he may have succeeded, but I think he was bad because he was unprepared, there's been a lot of talk on the K1 forums about what a party animal Herring has been in Japan.

All I have to say about this is...MIRKO FILIPOVIC...not to mention the occasional head kick :twisted:

...and with Herring...there was a point in the fight that he could have come close to finishing if it were Pride. He was able to daze O'brien momentarily and then put him in the north/south position. In Pride he would have brought the knees to the head...other than that (which didn't happen), he didn't look very good regardless of which set of rules he was following!

 

[stxnas]

When I said leg kicks, I meant all kicks, the UFC guys are generally not training like the Pride Guys with an emphasis on kickboxing. Wrestlers seem to have a hard time learning to use their legs that way.

Yeah, I just watched UFN tonight and I was talking about just that with my cousin. He's one of those guys that has only only heard of Pride. I was trying to explain to him how different it is from the UFC and how Pride's HWs are far superior athletes in comparison.

 

[Rodja]

Not only are outside leg kicks neglected, but inside leg kicks after a 1-2 are EXTREMELY effective. I use them to wear out an opponents power and to set up a HK. When Rizzo was in his prime, he was the master at using LK, but very few people took notice of their power. As Bas says, leg kicks are very underutilized, but they can determine a fight.

To all that are learning MMA, effective leg kicks are something that is neglected, but should be taught with the same importance as basic boxing techniques.

 

[Beowulf]

Inside leg kicks also work great if you can read someone's attack. As he comes in to jab you can throw a nice inside LK as your upper body drops back out of range. Only danger is if you don't throw it hard you might be eating leather.

 

[brass monkey]

does anyone know if evans is still alive. i knew as soon as he started out the fight with that crazy kick it was going to end up bad for him. he laid there forever and thr cameras did not show it. i was just wanted to find out if he was ok or still in the hospital.

 

[Alexander]

It's been reported that Sean Salmon was discharged from the hospital at 3 am Friday morning, he said he was fine.

Excellent, I was pissed to see him get hit twice when he was already unconscious.

 

[jas123]

Excellent, I was pissed to see him get hit twice when he was already unconscious.

He might have deserved one for that jumpkick he tried. JK glad he's okay.

I'm with you on Rizzo, Rodja. He was a master with them. His opponents would have deep black and blue thighs by the end.

Leg kicks are a powerful technique, they even allowed Hoost to avoid getting KOed by Igor. (covers head expecting verbal slapping from Rogue)

 

[Rodja]

Another example was when Sakuraba fought Renzo, even though Saku caught Renzo in a terrible kimura, the next day Renzo's legs were destroyed b/c of the leg kicks that he used. He did the same thing to Vitor, although Vitor broke both hands during their fight. Bottom line, leg kicks are the most neglected weapon in the UFC today. But, I have a feeling that will change when CC arrives...

 

[size]

Bottom line, leg kicks are the most neglected weapon in the UFC today. But, I have a feeling that will change when CC arrives...

I am glad to see I am not the only person who sees this as a problem with the many UFC fighters.