Current Top Five

[Mulletsoldier]

Who, in your opinion, are the world's five best?

I'll start off

1) Fedor
2) Crocop
3) Shogun
4) GSP
5) Liddell

I was honestly going to place CC above Fedor, given the way he looked against Coleman, and especially Hunt; against Hunt may have been the worst I've ever seen Fedor. However, considering Fedor still holds the victory over CC and with CC's recent UFC signing it does not appear we are going to see that fight anytime soon.

I think GSP/Shogun are no brainers. Liddell as well, though his performance against Tito was a little odd. His punches were nowhere as crisp as they have been, though the one-punch to set up was apparently his plan.

I think Penn should get honourable mention, as pound-for-pound I think he is a more talented fighter than GSP, however 0-2 in 2006 is not stellar. While he was dominating both of those fights early, talent is not what solely makes a fighter.

 

[ugab37]

1. Fedor (still by far the best in my opinion)
2. Chuck (last fight=domination. looks unstoppable lately)
3. Crocop (headkicks, need I say more)
4. Shogun (other than Fedor, probably the most complete fighter)
5. BJ Penn ( I just think he has the tools to beat anybody, but for godsake, due some cardio so you can stop gassing every fight)

 

[Rodja]

I assume that this is a P4P rating, so I will say
Fedor
GSP
Shogun
Crocop
Kid

 

[MisterEZE]

Fedor
CroCop
Chuck
Shogun
GSP

what a disappointing day when we have run wanderlei out of the top 5.

 

[Alexander]

Fedor
Crocop
GSP
WAND
Shogun

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Pretty good discussion and census actually. I am a little surprised there is not more variety, but then on the other hand, I am not really.

 

[brass monkey]

Fedor
Chuck
Crocop
GSP
Wandy

 

[somewhatgifted]

Fedor
crocrop
shogun
wandy
lidell

Cro crop the soon to be #1, wandy to me this guy is in transition and could drop off the charts. Chucks position is much in question but after he faces rampage it'll be a strong indication of things to come with the ufc- zuffa expansion.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Fedor
crocrop
shogun
wandy
lidell

Cro crop the soon to be #1, wandy to me this guy is in transition and could drop off the charts. Chucks position is much in question but after he faces rampage it'll be a strong indication of things to come with the ufc- zuffa expansion.

I honestly don't think Page/Liddell to is a really great barometer for Chuck's current skill. Now, if this was the Rampage of a few years ago, different story, but after that beating he took from Wandy it seems he does not bring the same intensity.

 

[somewhatgifted]

I honestly don't think Page/Liddell to is a really great barometer for Chuck's current skill. Now, if this was the Rampage of a few years ago, different story, but after that beating he took from Wandy it seems he does not bring the same intensity.

True but if chuck cantbeat him then he's not in the top ten, maybe even 15

 

[Mulletsoldier]

True but if chuck cantbeat him then he's not in the top ten, maybe even 15

Touche

I wasn't even really thinking about it that way.

 

[Beowulf]

Tim Sylvia
Josh Koscheck
Giant Silva
Phil Baroni
Me

 

[Dr Liftalot]

Tim Sylvia
Josh Koscheck
Giant Silva
Phil Baroni
Me

Nice suprised we didnt see any Sumo's up there, you could have just said K-1.



But on a more serious note

1.Fedor (Seriously has beaten down every on comer)
2.Kid (Guy has a serious Punch and is a demon in both K-1 and MMA.
3.BJ Penn(I know allot will disagree with me on this, but his short comings aren't in the skill department. Hell he gave GSP all he could handle in the first round. Fights out of his weight class and still is able to put up a fight with his new CHILLING OUT trianning(AKA i'm a lazy ass who's soo skilled i know not how to condition.) He's the real deal, just needs some better motivation and training partners.
4.Shogun Ru( The man is ON FIRE! enough said.)
5.Matt lindland/chuck liddel I consider this spot to be a tie, both are on fire. Chuck is looking great, but I'd love to see his fight arona or wand before giving him this spot. While tito is great and is a top competitor styles make the fight and chuck just happens to have the style to demolish tito. The reason i say Matt's tied is due to his last few matches not to mention when he's at his true weight class he's almost unstoppable. He gave Rampage all he could handle, took out horn. The guys truely improved his game and IMHO is one of the most unrated fighters out there.

 

[Alexander]

Fedor
crocrop
shogun
wandy
lidell

Cro crop the soon to be #1, wandy to me this guy is in transition and could drop off the charts. Chucks position is much in question but after he faces rampage it'll be a strong indication of things to come with the ufc- zuffa expansion.

Gotta disagree with Crocop being #1 soon. Now that he's with the UFC he likely won't face Fedor for quite some time. Doesn't really matter, if/when he faces Fedor he will lose IMO.

 

[somewhatgifted]

Gotta disagree with Crocop being #1 soon. Now that he's with the UFC he likely won't face Fedor for quite some time. Doesn't really matter, if/when he faces Fedor he will lose IMO.

I think fedors strengths are amazing almost too much for a human body to handle, so as a result injuries will be his downfall not any othere fighter in the short term.

 

[Alexander]

Nice suprised we didnt see any Sumo's up there, you could have just said K-1.



But on a more serious note

1.Fedor (Seriously has beaten down every on comer)
2.Kid (Guy has a serious Punch and is a demon in both K-1 and MMA.
3.BJ Penn(I know allot will disagree with me on this, but his short comings aren't in the skill department. Hell he gave GSP all he could handle in the first round. Fights out of his weight class and still is able to put up a fight with his new CHILLING OUT trianning(AKA i'm a lazy ass who's soo skilled i know not how to condition.) He's the real deal, just needs some better motivation and training partners.
4.Shogun Ru( The man is ON FIRE! enough said.)
5.Matt lindland/chuck liddel I consider this spot to be a tie, both are on fire. Chuck is looking great, but I'd love to see his fight arona or wand before giving him this spot. While tito is great and is a top competitor styles make the fight and chuck just happens to have the style to demolish tito. The reason i say Matt's tied is due to his last few matches not to mention when he's at his true weight class he's almost unstoppable. He gave Rampage all he could handle, took out horn. The guys truely improved his game and IMHO is one of the most unrated fighters out there.

Matt Lindland? He is a great fighter, but not that damn good. He gave a demoralized Rampage a good fight and he beat a half retired Horn. His loss to Terrell was a bit of a fluke, and Bustamante schooled him though that was a while back. He's got potential to be up their, he needs to get back in the UFC and fight Franklin, Anderson, maybe a rematch with Terrell. I think he would have a good chance of beating those 3.

 

[Alexander]

I think fedors strengths are amazing almost too much for a human body to handle, so as a result injuries will be his downfall not any othere fighter in the short term.

Man I hope you're wrong. Maybe he can go do some digging with his old teammate Kharitonov.

 

[mp5man1]

1) Fedor Right now I dont think he can be beat

2) Crocop Going to take the UFC title from Tim

3) Liddell Awesome fighter. Best hands in the business and he is a good kicker. He has a uncanny ability to escape from the ground

4) GSP Is probably the most prepared. Very physically fit with all the right tools


5) Frank Shamrock (not the old one). If he gets back into it he could be in this top 5 list

 

[Rodja]

1) Fedor Right now I dont think he can be beat

2) Crocop Going to take the UFC title from Tim

3) Liddell Awesome fighter. Best hands in the business and he is a good kicker. He has a uncanny ability to escape from the ground

4) GSP Is probably the most prepared. Very physically fit with all the right tools


5) Frank Shamrock (not the old one). If he gets back into it he could be in this top 5 list

Frank hasnt fought anyone of merit since Tito so he DOES NOT belong on this list and Chuck is far from having the best hands in MMA. Yes, he has KO power, but he is not a technician when it somes to boxing.

 

[mp5man1]

I agree but hes not a boxer

 

[Rodja]

I agree but hes not a boxer

What I mean is that he does not have great technique. Penn, Crocop, Wandy, GSP, Kid, Arlovski, Aleks...they all have better hands than Chuck. It is very hard to accurately gauge Chuck's hands b/c he generally fights grapplers. The last time he fought a striker (Overeem) he was getting absolutely schooled before he gassed.

 

[jas123]

#1 Fedor
#2 Shogun
#3 GSP
#4 Crocop
#5 Wand

Comments:
1. Chuck's not top 5 until he proves that he can beat great strikers. He didn't look good in any of his Pride fights. Mezger definitely outstruck him for 10 mins, but Chuck outchinned him.
2. BJ's the most talented fighter in MMA IMO but mentally unfocused.
3. Kid's great, but I don't know how good the other fighters are that he's fought so I can't justify him in the top 5. Please enlighten me if you know.
4. Beo, you clearly noticed Giant Silva's brutal kimura sub victory so I can see a #3 ranking.
5. It seems like a 183/185er belongs in there somewhere, but there's too much uncertainty in this division. I want to see Filho fight Kang and Hendo, and A. Silva have some more fights against good sub guys.

Best Hands in MMA - Igor....okay maybe I just miss the little bastard.

Mullet, why do you think Fedor looked bad against Coleman (II)? He completely dominated.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

#1 Fedor
#2 Shogun
#3 GSP
#4 Crocop
#5 Wand

Comments:
1. Chuck's not top 5 until he proves that he can beat great strikers. He didn't look good in any of his Pride fights. Mezger definitely outstruck him for 10 mins, but Chuck outchinned him.
2. BJ's the most talented fighter in MMA IMO but mentally unfocused.
3. Kid's great, but I don't know how good the other fighters are that he's fought so I can't justify him in the top 5. Please enlighten me if you know.
4. Beo, you clearly noticed Giant Silva's brutal kimura sub victory so I can see a #3 ranking.
5. It seems like a 183/185er belongs in there somewhere, but there's too much uncertainty in this division. I want to see Filho fight Kang and Hendo, and A. Silva have some more fights against good sub guys.

Best Hands in MMA - Igor....okay maybe I just miss the little bastard.

Mullet, why do you think Fedor looked bad against Coleman (II)? He completely dominated.

Not bad perse, I mean Fedor 60% is alot of guys' 100%. What I should have said was I didn't feel Fedor was himself during that fight; though Coleman's face was a mess after, I felt there were a few times during the fight where Fedor normally would have ended it. Granted, that was his first fight coming back from injury, but mainly just trying to say in those two fights he was not his ridiculous self.

I agree with everything in your post as well, especially the Penn comment. His skill is, quite frankly, off the charts. He needs to acquaint himself with a recumbant bike though.

 

[somewhatgifted]

The x factor we all need to consider is fighting is a buisness and although a quick win for some can be decisive and meaningful to others it can be a let down and detrimental to future satelite customs eps in the fianl matches. I think there is some pressure to perform in an entertaining manner and to prolong lopsided matches. I hope the transition from cage fighting to wrestling is limited if not halted by respectable organizations. Dana hype however will continue to turn real fighting in to another physical drama with a proven marketing strategy.

 

[Rodja]

Not bad perse, I mean Fedor 60% is alot of guys' 100%. What I should have said was I didn't feel Fedor was himself during that fight; though Coleman's face was a mess after, I felt there were a few times during the fight where Fedor normally would have ended it. Granted, that was his first fight coming back from injury, but mainly just trying to say in those two fights he was not his ridiculous self.

I agree with everything in your post as well, especially the Penn comment. His skill is, quite frankly, off the charts. He needs to acquaint himself with a recumbant bike though.

Fedor allowed he fight to continue because he had been away for so long. He was worried about having ring rust and he is so much better than Coleman that he knew that he could finish him when he wanted.

 

[Blutarski]

BTW, GSP is now out of his Feb fight with Serra w/ a knee injury. I hope this is a b/s thing as I don't think Serra wanted the fight in the first place from his comments. However, if the knee is serious GSP is starting to have some injury concerns at a very young age with the groin and now knee. I sure hope that is not the case.

 

[Rodja]

BTW, GSP is now out of his Feb fight with Serra w/ a knee injury. I hope this is a b/s thing as I don't think Serra wanted the fight in the first place from his comments. However, if the knee is serious GSP is starting to have some injury concerns at a very young age with the groin and now knee. I sure hope that is not the case.

In a way, I am glad that this happened b/c I can see GSP live, in-person at UFC 69 when it is in Houston.

 

[size]

My top 5 in no particular order:

Gomi
Fedor
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira(3 losses in the last 5 years, 2 to Fedor)
St.Pierre
Kid Yamamoto

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Fedor allowed he fight to continue because he had been away for so long. He was worried about having ring rust and he is so much better than Coleman that he knew that he could finish him when he wanted.

This is something you have heard/read him say, or just your theory? If it is the latter, I would have to strongly disagree. The fact that he was fighting a very aging and deflated Coleman would suggest to me he would shake off the rust with a very decisive win. However, granting you that theory in the Coleman fight, would you make the same prognostication about the Hunt fight?

This makes it seem like I am knocking Fedor, which I want to be clear I am not. Just saying even great fighters have shaky periods, in this case Fedor's 'shaky' period is still heads and shoulders above the field he is fighting against.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

BTW, GSP is now out of his Feb fight with Serra w/ a knee injury. I hope this is a b/s thing as I don't think Serra wanted the fight in the first place from his comments. However, if the knee is serious GSP is starting to have some injury concerns at a very young age with the groin and now knee. I sure hope that is not the case.

It could possibly be an overtraining problem. From all reports GSP trains like an absolute maniac, which is not hard to believe when you see the condition he comes in for his fights.

 

[jas123]

This is something you have heard/read him say, or just your theory? If it is the latter, I would have to strongly disagree. The fact that he was fighting a very aging and deflated Coleman would suggest to me he would shake off the rust with a very decisive win. However, granting you that theory in the Coleman fight, would you make the same prognostication about the Hunt fight?

This makes it seem like I am knocking Fedor, which I want to be clear I am not. Just saying even great fighters have shaky periods, in this case Fedor's 'shaky' period is still heads and shoulders above the field he is fighting against.

Fedor sort of implied it in his post-fight interview where he said he wanted to get more ring time since he'd been out so long. It's not for certain, though. I think Fedor will bring his A game against someone like Barnett or Nog or if the CC fight happens.

My top 5 in no particular order:

Gomi
Fedor
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira(3 losses in the last 5 years, 2 to Fedor)
St.Pierre
Kid Yamamoto

I thought pretty hard about throwing in Nog and Gomi in my top 5 as well.

I didn't know UFC 69 was in Houston. The UFC is going all over the place this year, Houston, Columbus, Montreal, and supposedly England eventually.

 

[Rodja]

The event that is going to be in Houston was supposed to be in Montreal, so I am not sure if that is going to happen this year.

 

[size]

I thought pretty hard about throwing in Nog and Gomi in my top 5 as well.

I could not justify leaving out Nog his record too impressive. Gomi just has so many skills and is so well rounded.

 

[Beowulf]

Nog definitely belongs there. His only losses are the 2 to Fedor already mentioned, what some people consider controversial vs. Barnett, and a split decision to Dan Henderson 7 years ago. He's consistently fought the best, too.

Gomi is certainly up there too. I'd love to see him fight some UFC lightweights. How would he fair vs. Sherk.

Seems like guys like Gomi and Kid represent a new type of Japanese fighter. I'm not gonna claim to know more historically than I do, but I always thought they were about honor, etc. I've seen vids of Kid pounding opponents after well after the fight stopped. Gomi did the same thing to Luis Azaredo (sp?)--could have gotten himself jumped by the Chutebox guys. Kid and Gomi also strike me as more cocky, whereas I thought Japanese culture values conformity and humility.

 

[Alexander]

Nog definitely belongs there. His only losses are the 2 to Fedor already mentioned, what some people consider controversial vs. Barnett, and a split decision to Dan Henderson 7 years ago. He's consistently fought the best, too.

Gomi is certainly up there too. I'd love to see him fight some UFC lightweights. How would he fair vs. Sherk.

Seems like guys like Gomi and Kid represent a new type of Japanese fighter. I'm not gonna claim to know more historically than I do, but I always thought they were about honor, etc. I've seen vids of Kid pounding opponents after well after the fight stopped. Gomi did the same thing to Luis Azaredo (sp?)--could have gotten himself jumped by the Chutebox guys. Kid and Gomi also strike me as more cocky, whereas I thought Japanese culture values conformity and humility.

Gomi and Kid definitely represent a new type of japanese fighter, they're actually good:icon_lol: I know what you're saying though, they are punks and I love it.

 

[size]

Kid and Gomi also strike me as more cocky, whereas I thought Japanese culture values conformity and humility.

Gomi has become more and more cocky in the ring as his victories continue to rise. Personally, I do not like the attitudes at all, and I would rather see a mutual show of respect for competition.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Gomi has become more and more cocky in the ring as his victories continue to rise. Personally, I do not like the attitudes at all, and I would rather see a mutual show of respect for competition.

I agree. I am not a fan who enjoys engrossing bravado in the ring. I would rather see a humble, yet confident fighter, who is willing to respect his opponent.

 

[Sir Savage]

Gomi is certainly up there too. I'd love to see him fight some UFC lightweights. How would he fair vs. Sherk.

I would love to see Gomi pulverized by Sherk. He wouldn't know WTF hit him. There's no way Gomi could stop the best shot in the sport.

Pride knows that, too, so they never invited Sherk back after his only fight there.

 

[Sir Savage]

Oh, and

1) Fedor Emelianenko
2) Georges St. Pierre
3) BJ Penn
4) Takanori Gomi
5) Sean Sherk

 

[Alexander]

I would love to see Gomi pulverized by Sherk. He wouldn't know WTF hit him. There's no way Gomi could stop the best shot in the sport.

Pride knows that, too, so they never invited Sherk back after his only fight there.

I would definitely take Gomi against Sherk. Did you see Sherk's only appearance in Pride? If you did you would know why he wasn't invited back. He had trouble with a low B level fighter and was very boring. Gomi would treat Sherk about the same way GSP did in my estimation.

 

[Alexander]

I agree. I am not a fan who enjoys engrossing bravado in the ring. I would rather see a humble, yet confident fighter, who is willing to respect his opponent.

I respect the humble fighter more, but the cocky fighter is necessary for contrast.

 

[ugab37]

Kinda off topic but oh well- How would some of you (that have been watching MMA for a long time and understand the level of the Pride fighters and not just the UFC) think Matt Hughes and Rich Franklin would fair in pride?

2. Do you think they are in the top 10-15 fighters in the world or are they just a product of going against inferior competition in the UFC?

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I respect the humble fighter more, but the cocky fighter is necessary for contrast.

Very, very true.

 

[Quil]

New to this forum, but a BIG mma fan...

Fedor
GSP
CC
Gomi
Shogun

 

[Rodja]

I don't understand how Gomi is up there when he just got choked out and controversily won the rematch. The others have been much more convincing lately.

 

[ugab37]

Kinda off topic but oh well- How would some of you (that have been watching MMA for a long time and understand the level of the Pride fighters and not just the UFC) think Matt Hughes and Rich Franklin would fair in pride?

2. Do you think they are in the top 10-15 fighters in the world or are they just a product of going against inferior competition in the UFC?

Rodja, I posted this above, but Im really interested to hear your opinion on 2 of the UFCs poster boys.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Kinda off topic but oh well- How would some of you (that have been watching MMA for a long time and understand the level of the Pride fighters and not just the UFC) think Matt Hughes and Rich Franklin would fair in pride?

2. Do you think they are in the top 10-15 fighters in the world or are they just a product of going against inferior competition in the UFC?

I think Hughes' record is much more impressive, not only for quantity of wins but the quality of his opponents is, IMO, much better thank Franklin's. I would still most likely place Hughes in the Top 15, however only if he could diversify his game as the Welterweight Division is becoming extremely talented and competitive.

 

[Rodja]

Rodja, I posted this above, but Im really interested to hear your opinion on 2 of the UFCs poster boys.

Franklin would do well in PRIDE because his style is not reliant on the cage; Hughes is hard to say because there is not a 170lb weight class in PRIDE. If he could but to LW, then he would be a force b/c of the strength and wrestling advantage. However, at 183lbs, he would not fair very well because his strength would be neutralized and his stand-up game is not good enough to hang with Hendo, Kang, etc.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

However, at 183lbs, he would not fair very well because his strength would be neutralized and his stand-up game is not good enough to hang with Hendo, Kang, etc.

Yeah, I was going to say IMO Hendo is also a higher quality wrestler than Hughes, and would fair better even if it was taken to the ground. Franklin gets hated on but he does have competent hands and can be a precise striker. I honestly thought the Silva match was going to be a much closer one.

 

[ugab37]

I think Hughes' record is much more impressive, not only for quantity of wins but the quality of his opponents is, IMO, much better thank Franklin's. I would still most likely place Hughes in the Top 15, however only if he could diversify his game as the Welterweight Division is becoming extremely talented and competitive.

Id like to see Hughes do some serious standup training. He needs to bring in a new training style for his standup. He wont stand a chance with GSP unless he vastly improves on his feet. If he could, he'd have a shot at a good takedown, and hes damn sure got a ground game. I hope he realizes that the competition is getting better and he needs to change a few things.