Pride 32: Real Deal Post Fight Discussion

stxnas

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I just finished watching the first fight and damn was it over quick.

Robbie Lawler started off with a flying knee and that was all it took! I look forward to seeing more of him in Pride as long as he comes out like he did last night.

Oh yeah, and there was a "Special Announcement" last night, but it was towards the end of the event, so I haven't made it that far yet.
 

stxnas

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Well, I just watched the Vitor/Hendo fight with much anticipation. Unfortunately Vitor didn't show up at all and was dominated by the smaller Henderson. Not take anything away from Hendo though, he looks to be back in form and was very aggressive.

So far the the card has been just as expected - very one sided with wins by Lawler, Nakamura, Baroni, and Henderson.
 

stxnas

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The Butterbean match was a joke.

Josh Barnett was pretty much dominated for about 90%+ of his match. He was taken to the ground repeatedly and couldn't manage to set up anything, or so it seemed. Just when I thought Barnett was about to lose another round he pulled a reversal and threw on a heel hook for the win.

Anybody who is more MMA articulate - Please Feel Free To Jump In At Anytime. LOL.
 

stxnas

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Just watched the "Special Announcement." As expected, Wandy called out Chuck for a match in February. He basically said that this match hasn't happened yet b/c Chuck has been running from him. This should be interesting as I'm sure both Pride and UFC want this fight to happen on one of their own respective cards. I say they should just have an all out UFC vs. Pride card. Yeah right, like that would happen...but it would be great to see though!
 
Alexander

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I loved Lawler's celebration into ground n pound. Baroni's ground n pound is pretty nasty. Fedor's fight was awesome, before during and after, what a great guy he is.
 

stxnas

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Damn...Randleman charged Shogun at the open of the match and upon the takedown ended up in a heel hook. Randleman couldn't escape the heel hook and ended up in a knee bar and tapped. I was really looking forward to this match, but unfortunately it only went about 160 seconds... :(
 

stxnas

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And for the finale: Frickin A man, Coleman by legendary GnP...ok, not really. Coleman lasted one round, but you could definitely tell that he had been in the ring with Fedor by looking at his face after about 60 seconds.

Fedor was put on his back at the start of the second round, but was able to roll into an armbar for the win.
 

stxnas

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I loved Lawler's celebration into ground n pound. Baroni's ground n pound is pretty nasty. Fedor's fight was awesome, before during and after, what a great guy he is.
I just noticed that you joined me. I love watching both of these guys when they're on. They were both definitely ready for their fights. I just hope Ruthless doesn't end up Vitor where everybody is always wondering wich fighter is going to show up.
 

dito

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I was fairly happy with it. The intermission sucked balls. The butter bean fight, why didn't the guy leg kick him?
 
Alexander

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I was fairly happy with it. The intermission sucked balls. The butter bean fight, why didn't the guy leg kick him?
Sean O'haire really sucks at fighting. I kind of liked the intermission, gave me a chance to re-fuel, but I can see how it could be annoying.
 

stxnas

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I was fairly happy with it. The intermission sucked balls. The butter bean fight, why didn't the guy leg kick him?
I could see this card being argued either way depending on what you like to see on a card. This was a card that, IMO, was very predictable. It was pretty one sided and I think for the first time ever I was able to predict ALL of the winners (I'll admit that I didn't know much about a couple of the fighters though and just went with the favorites).

There were some big names in it though and there was some decent action. I guess I was just really disappointed in the three fights that I wanted to see.

I was glad that Lawler won, but it was just too quick. Vitor just simply didn't show up and we didn't get to see ANYTHING from Randleman.
 
exnihilo

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If I were Coleman I'd feel REALLY bad right now. He fought an entire round for a takedown, only to get into Fedor's open guard and get armbar'd exactly the same way as before, only this time it made him look like a total idiot because he KNEW fedor had a sick armbar from guard. I guess sometimes looks aren't deceiving ;)

This event clearly demonstrated that the time of one trick ponies in MMA is long gone, but everyone knew that already, except for Randleman and Coleman :D
 
jas123

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Well, I found out the bar I was going to watch it at wasn't having it this time so I missed it. What was the deal with Coleman and his kids and then punching Fedor after the fight or something?
 
Beowulf

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I don't doubt that Coleman is a dedicated father, nor that his feelings are genuine, but he needs to chill on playing up the family man thing. Bringing your wailing daughters into the ring to see you bleeding with an eye swelled shut is absolutely asinine.

I really wish I could have seen more from Randleman. That was the fastest, most aggressive takedown I have ever seen. I love Shogun b/c he is an awesome standup fighter, but when the situation dictates he can bring it on the ground. I wouldn't be surprised if Randleman is scheduled for another surgery now.

Overall, I think this was a good card. Belfort was disappointing, and the Butterbean fight was a joke. (BB vs. Hunt could have been interesting). Everything else was good to great. Nakamura vs. Galbraith was very entertaining. I think Galbraith has the spirit to get the call back from Pride.

Nastula was great for the majority of the fight. I think it was Mauro who stated that Judo practitioners don't really have experience with leg locks. That was right on. I hope they call Nastula back. With some additional MMA training, I see him putting on some great shows in the future.

Fedor was...Fedor. He lit Coleman up badly. Could he be better than ever? :D
 
Alexander

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Well, I found out the bar I was going to watch it at wasn't having it this time so I missed it. What was the deal with Coleman and his kids and then punching Fedor after the fight or something?
Coleman just tapped Fedor on the chin and said something like "at least let me get one shot in", then he did it again. Fedor handled the entire situation with Coleman's daughters and the chin tap with such grace and elegance.
 
jas123

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Coleman just tapped Fedor on the chin and said something like "at least let me get one shot in", then he did it again. Fedor handled the entire situation with Coleman's daughters and the chin tap with such grace and elegance.
Thanks. Sounds very awkward.
 
gresh

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Sean O'haire really sucks at fighting. I kind of liked the intermission, gave me a chance to re-fuel, but I can see how it could be annoying.
Intermission sucked, some of us would like to get to bed before 1am :yawn: At least show something other than the replay of the fights I just saw 2 minutes ago.
 
Alexander

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Thanks. Sounds very awkward.
I didn't really explain the whole situation. Coleman's daughters are crying in the crowd so Coleman decides to bring them in the ring to console them, but he looks like death after the beating he's taken. So they're crying in Coleman's arms and he calls Fedor over and says to his daughters "Say hi to Fedor, he is a nice man". They're confused and scared to death, but Fedor seems to say sorry to them and consoles them, they kind of say hi to Fedor, one waves hello to him. Then he puts them down and thats when the whole chin tap thing occured. If it were anyone but Fedor the situation would've been worse, but Fedor handled it so perfectly that it wasn't as awkward as it could've been.
 
Rodja

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They are illegal in judo. Oddly they are often not taught in BJJ.
This is generally the split between BJJ and JJJ; BJJ does use a lot of leg/ankle locks, but JJJ does teach these techniques. The main justification for this is that ankle locks are hard to practice w/o injuring the other person. Heel hooks aren't that painful until you really crank it and it is difficult to go half-speed/strength w/ submissions. I love kneebars, but I don't really practice them while rolling because the injury factor is too high.
 
jas123

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I didn't really explain the whole situation. Coleman's daughters are crying in the crowd so Coleman decides to bring them in the ring to console them, but he looks like death after the beating he's taken. So they're crying in Coleman's arms and he calls Fedor over and says to his daughters "Say hi to Fedor, he is a nice man". They're confused and scared to death, but Fedor seems to say sorry to them and consoles them, they kind of say hi to Fedor, one waves hello to him. Then he puts them down and thats when the whole chin tap thing occured. If it were anyone but Fedor the situation would've been worse, but Fedor handled it so perfectly that it wasn't as awkward as it could've been.
I talked to my bro who went to it and he said Coleman was bleeding all over his daughters when hugging them. Guess kids really shouldn't go. Fedor really is the man and unbelievably calm and collected in any situation whether it be an awkward moment or Randleman slamming him to hell.

Rodja, what's the first J in JJJ refer to?
 

size

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what's the first J in JJJ refer to?
Japanese or traditional juijitsu.
Another difference is that BJJ will spend ore time on the back setting up, defending, and stabilizing positions. In other forms, this is often considered stalling. So BJJ changed essentially the guard usage to a degree.


Randleman actually could have locked on a figure 4 toe hold or ankle lock but he did not do it. Rua's foot was right there for the taking but obviously Randleman does not practice them. Barnett on the other hand is an expert with feet.
 
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exnihilo

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The event was certainly nowhere near the calibur of the OWGP finals, that's for sure. The production value was a lot lower than you typically see in japanese pride events but it was still on par or superior to that of the UFC.

Hopefully the next show will have improved production value (though I don't think ceasar's palace or mandalay bay can hold a candle to saitama) and a more balanced card. Overall still on par or better than most UFC events though.
 

ersatz

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Guess the broadcast differed greatly from actually being there. I foudn the pcae to be quite frenetic with fights spaced clsoely together. Attend a UFC event where fights are 20mins apart. In the UFC a fight ends they do the interview and fighters leave the octagon. On TV they play some intros but at the event it's sh*t. You get bored and start talking to others then all of a sudden music starts playing and you wonder if a fight is starting or if they're going to interview someone. I went into more details in my AX log so I won't repost them here.

I have to also disagree with the notion that bjj doesn't practice leg locks much. Leg subs are no more dangerous than arm subs and an equal time is spent practicing these techniques. Leg subs work great on newbs but experienced practioners know to keep rolling to escape. An arm sub is harder to escape because the torso is immobilized to a degree thus increases success.

Coleman had little chance of winning and was further crippled by hte ruleset. I'm not sure how much the lack of wrestling shoes really affected his takedowns. But he's used to wearing tham and any alteration will cause problems. Take away knees to a groudned opponent and there's half his offense gone.

Randleman his has poor sub defense and will probably require surgery as previously stated. But his opponent was no slouch so there's no shame in his loss. Are Hammerhouse one-sided, well Baroni won by sub so who knows. Coleman is past his prime and obviously can't compete with the most dominate HW in the world. Age is taking it's toll on Kevin as well. So while they can't compete against the elite they could still do well against most. They are gatekeepers and should be a litmus test for newer fighters. Put them in the UFC though, which favors GnP a bit more and they would do very well IMO.

Pride kind of feeds some fighters to the lions so to speak. Look at Pawel and his opponents. He needs to be built up and fight in smaller orgs and with lesser opponents until he gains more experience.
 
Alexander

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Nastula has fought the #2,#3,and #6 HW fighters in the world, and then I think Drago from BTT who is no slouch. He doesn't need to fight in smaller orgs, but give him Zentsov, Fujita or someone of that caliber. I can see him being a top 10 HW in the future, although I think he may be around 38. As far as Coleman being crippled by the ruleset I see what you're saying, but would it have really mattered?
 
Rodja

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Okay. Thought it was abbreviated as just JJ.
JJJ started as a spin-off of judoka in Japan because of the frown placed upon the ground aspect of grappling. Judoka relies on explosion to set-up the takedown and goes straight into a submission. JJ, both Japanese and Brazlian, has ****ty takedowns, but a much larger and methodical submission base. Combining both Judo and JJ of any origin makes an awesome grappling base because you can throw your opponent and then methodically set-up a submission. Dave Camarillo has deveolped a style called Guerilla JJ that combines both judoka and BJJ. I would hate to grapple that guy, but I would love to train at his school in Cali.
 

dito

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I could see this card being argued either way depending on what you like to see on a card. This was a card that, IMO, was very predictable. It was pretty one sided and I think for the first time ever I was able to predict ALL of the winners (I'll admit that I didn't know much about a couple of the fighters though and just went with the favorites).

There were some big names in it though and there was some decent action. I guess I was just really disappointed in the three fights that I wanted to see.

I was glad that Lawler won, but it was just too quick. Vitor just simply didn't show up and we didn't get to see ANYTHING from Randleman.

It was better than ufc. But how they were bragging about entertainment and what not. It was kind of lame. Then announcer's voice gets on my nerves too haha.
 
Alexander

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It was better than ufc. But how they were bragging about entertainment and what not. It was kind of lame. Then announcer's voice gets on my nerves too haha.
Are you talking about the red haired lady or the japanese guy? I like em both. I'd rather they hide the red haired lady, but she is definitely my favorite announcer of all time.
 
jas123

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she is definitely my favorite announcer of all time.
Oh really. Where's the innovation with her? Did she come up with the "last name echo effect"? No. When you talk about great announcers, you're goins to be talking about the man, the myth, the legend,...the G-man.

I'm not surprised people tested positive, but thought at least one Hammer House guy would come back dirty. Belfort should have gone all out with cheque drops to get him fired up if he was going to take something. It's not really too surprising. He definitely was on in his HW days back in the UFC.
 
Alexander

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I feel horrible, somehow I had forgotten about "The G-man". He is by far and away the greatest announcer ever, and he's a pretty handsome fella too. Man, you've got me laughing just thinking about the G-man, I may have to go watch some WEF.
 
jas123

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Yeah, the G-man annoyed me at first, but now I just laugh everytime I watch an old UFC. Are you saying that he's the ring announcer in WEF?
I think the Pride lady fits well with the feel of a Pride show.

For commentators I liked Bas and Quadros the best. Mauro-Bas were alright too. Goldy-Rogan are getting old and repetitive to me.
 

ersatz

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Are you talking about the red haired lady or the japanese guy? I like em both. I'd rather they hide the red haired lady, but she is definitely my favorite announcer of all time.

They usually do hide her as I've rarely seen her on other broadcasts. Perhaps because it was in the US they decided to give her a more prominent role. G-Man is well interesting. All of the aforementioned beat Bruce Buffer hands down though.

As for commentators I enjoyed the golden age of Bas and Quadros as they had good chemistry. But Mauro and even Damon Perry weren't too bad. Some fighters like Pulver, Baroni or even Rampage who occassionally do color commentary are also pretty entertaining.

As for Coleman beng crippled by the rules, it did decrease his chance of winning but .001 or .005% of winning really doesn't matter.

As for the positives on the drug tests I'm was a bit surprised. Vitor has fought in the UFC and should know better. He will likely claim it's due to a OTC supp that contained the offending chemical.

I'm also surprised that an exOlympian would get popped too and for nandrolone no less. Maybe he got a bad batch of NitroTech or something. I'm sure he'll also claim it's due to a tainted OTC supp. All he needs to do is mimic Merriman's defense and hopefully be absolved.
 
Beowulf

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For Nastula, they said it is common to test positive b/c nandro can be from beef. Beyond the joint effects, nandro seems like a poor choice for MMA--mass w/o strength.
 
Rodja

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For Nastula, they said it is common to test positive b/c nandro can be from beef. Beyond the joint effects, nandro seems like a poor choice for MMA--mass w/o strength.
Yes, but for judo, strength is not as important as using momentum and physics. Extra mass against someone as large as Barnett would come in handy and, as you said, the joint/collagen recovery effects are obviously beneficial.
 

dito

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Are you talking about the red haired lady or the japanese guy? I like em both. I'd rather they hide the red haired lady, but she is definitely my favorite announcer of all time.

I feel like I am playing street fighter or some ****.
 
Mulletsoldier

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I feel like I am playing street fighter or some ****.
I know, especially when she does the high pitched screech. My lil bro was here when it happened and had never watched a Pride Event and it scared him..lol
 
Rodja

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I just rewatched the Rnadleman-Shogun fight and I have a very serious question - was that fight a work? It is a well known fact that Randleman is very powerful, yet he practically let Shogun do whatever he wanted. Kev never made any sort of effort to better his position or ever tried to really hit Shogun. This would not be the first time that there has been a work in PRIDE, either (Coleman-Takada from PRIDE 5).
 

stxnas

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I just rewatched the Rnadleman-Shogun fight and I have a very serious question - was that fight a work? It is a well known fact that Randleman is very powerful, yet he practically let Shogun do whatever he wanted. Kev never made any sort of effort to better his position or ever tried to really hit Shogun. This would not be the first time that there has been a work in PRIDE, either (Coleman-Takada from PRIDE 5).
I didn't know that, but I wouldn't be surprised. I was really looking forward to that fight and was quite disappointed...the only thing that would make me think otherwise was Randleman's opening move. He was quite forceful with his takedown, but who knows.
 

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I just rewatched the Rnadleman-Shogun fight and I have a very serious question - was that fight a work? It is a well known fact that Randleman is very powerful, yet he practically let Shogun do whatever he wanted. Kev never made any sort of effort to better his position or ever tried to really hit Shogun. This would not be the first time that there has been a work in PRIDE, either (Coleman-Takada from PRIDE 5).
I strongly suspected that after seeing it. Randleman makes very little attempt to get out of the submission.

Is it fact that Coleman-Takada was fixed? Got a link handy? I haven't heard that before.
 
Rodja

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I strongly suspected that after seeing it. Randleman makes very little attempt to get out of the submission.

Is it fact that Coleman-Takada was fixed? Got a link handy? I haven't heard that before.
I don't have a link, but I have watched the fight at least 10x. Coleman dominated the first round and then he practically fell into a toe hold in the 2nd round. Bas and Quadros both remarked how fishy it looked b/c Coleman never really made an attempt to escape and it was obvious that the ending was set-up. I have heard from UG sources that Coleman has admitted it b/c that was a time in his career that he wasn't sure if he could still be an elite athlete. He knew that it could have been his last payday.
 
jas123

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Report: Randleman Provided Dubious Urine Sample

Haha, Randleman's urine sample "was either allegedly non-human urine or urine from a dead human being". I knew one Hammer Houser would come back dirty. After such a long layoff and so many surgeries, it's not really surprising that he would need to use to get into the kind of shape we're used to seeing him in, though.
 
jas123

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Yeah, Hyrdoxytest is so weak it wouldn't be worth trying to take illegally. I'm not surprised it was in a supplement.
 

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