AAS and MMA

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    AAS and MMA


    Just curious, how common do you think/know AAS use to be in MMA? I know Tim Sylvia got busted on a drug test a few years ago, and Kerr admitted to use. I find it hard to believe that guys like Shamrock and Coleman aren't using, just based on their age and physiques.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf
    Just curious, how common do you think/know anabolic steroids use to be in MMA? I know Tim Sylvia got busted on a drug test a few years ago, and Kerr admitted to use. I find it hard to believe that guys like Shamrock and Coleman aren't using, just based on their age and physiques.
    Used to be? From what I've heard, steroid use is definitely prominent in UFC. Or should I say, prominent in the fighters. I also heard that because of this very reason, they only test on championship tittle matches otherwise a lot of cats would be gettin the boot. I can tell u from personal experience that in the underground or (Non-Televised) MMA events, they don't test for sh*t. :bruce1:
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    Common enough. Kimo, Shamrock, Sherk, and Monson are obvious examples. I wouldnt be surprised if Hughes dabbled in them either.

    The lame thing is that like the WWE, 'comic book' physiques make for good TV.
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    I don't think the UFC wants to test them period, but the Nevada Athletic Commission (or whatever) does it for them. In the early days of the UFC, there were some juiced up monsters from what I've seen.

    Ken Shamrock appears to have some gyno. Ivan Salavary and Barnett tested positive. Vitor had admitted to it in the past too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jas123
    I don't think the UFC wants to test them period, but the Nevada Athletic Commission (or whatever) does it for them. In the early days of the UFC, there were some juiced up monsters from what I've seen.

    Ken Shamrock appears to have some gyno. Ivan Salavary and Barnett tested positive. Vitor had admitted to it in the past too.
    "Shamrock appears to have gyno".... I love it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jas123
    I don't think the UFC wants to test them period, but the Nevada Athletic Commission (or whatever) does it for them. In the early days of the UFC, there were some juiced up monsters from what I've seen.

    Ken Shamrock appears to have some gyno. Ivan Salavary and Barnett tested positive. Vitor had admitted to it in the past too.
    Salaverry didnt test positive, it was Narquardt but they retested and it was a false positive. When Sylvia tested positive, it was not for a steroid, but for some other banned substance. Shamrock, Coleman, Kerr, and Baroni are probably the best examples of explicit gear use.
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    I think Baroni uses Superdrol for a multi-v.
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    AT the upper levels a bit more prevelant i believe depends on the camp you come out of also. I have fought in Hawaii and California and not been tested. here in cal if you fight on the reservations no one is testing your for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedup
    AT the upper levels a bit more prevelant i believe depends on the camp you come out of also. I have fought in Hawaii and California and not been tested. here in cal if you fight on the reservations no one is testing your for sure.
    Remember.... Not everyone is from a camp. Is it really that prominent over there? Camps I mean? Does anyone fight solo?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jas123
    I don't think the UFC wants to test them period, but the Nevada Athletic Commission (or whatever) does it for them. In the early days of the UFC, there were some juiced up monsters from what I've seen.
    Yeah, I just saw Ultimate Knockouts on Spike, and there was a guy, I think his name was Brad Kohler, who was absolutely massive. Huge and thick throughout, with a thick midsection. Looked like a lean powerlifter. No question he was juicing.


    On to the next question: Do you think AAS in MMA is ethical?
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    Ethical BEO? Ethics get in the way of winning, plain and simple. Is it right to have to fight a guy whose is juicing and you are not? Definitly it is, but then you have that right, and if you can win against the juicer, then hey you are great. As I see it its just another enhancement, and enhancements makes people realize they are not equal in talent etc. And not having a level playing field is not PC in todays pussified society.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf
    Yeah, I just saw Ultimate Knockouts on Spike, and there was a guy, I think his name was Brad Kohler, who was absolutely massive. Huge and thick throughout, with a thick midsection. Looked like a lean powerlifter. No question he was juicing.


    On to the next question: Do you think anabolic steroids in MMA is ethical?
    I think AS usage in MMA is irrelevant. Skill plays a more important factor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja
    Salaverry didnt test positive, it was Narquardt but they retested and it was a false positive. When Sylvia tested positive, it was not for a steroid, but for some other banned substance. Shamrock, Coleman, Kerr, and Baroni are probably the best examples of explicit gear use.
    Oops, yeah you're right. That's what I get for believing someone on sherdog.com....

    Wandy's admitted to juicing in the past. I wonder what these guys take before a fight besides Xyence of course?
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    I think all pro-athletes juice...curlers, ping-pong, you name it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NO HYPE
    I think AS usage in MMA is irrelevant. Skill plays a more important factor.
    I agree
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja
    Salaverry didnt test positive, it was Narquardt but they retested and it was a false positive. When Sylvia tested positive, it was not for a steroid, but for some other banned substance. Shamrock, Coleman, Kerr, and Baroni are probably the best examples of explicit gear use.
    Not for a steroid? Sylvia tested postive for winstrol. How is winstrol not a steroid.
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    Why would an MMA fighter use winstrol? Training and fighting isn't hard enough on the joints already
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf
    Why would an MMA fighter use winstrol? Training and fighting isn't hard enough on the joints already
    Full Contact Fighter - Sylvia Steroid Situation - October 2003
    Because its effects on the joints is blown out of proportion and Sylvia was using it in a stack. He talked about it in an interview which I can't find.

    Sylvia caused alot of controversy because he tested positive TWICE for winstrol. The second time he tested positive was immediately right after his suspension about 6-7 months later before UFC47. Apparently the NSAC accepted the reason for the 2nd positive as residual traces from the 1st offense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    Full Contact Fighter - Sylvia Steroid Situation - October 2003
    Because its effects on the joints is blown out of proportion and Sylvia was using it in a stack. He talked about it in an interview which I can't find.

    Sylvia caused alot of controversy because he tested positive TWICE for winstrol. The second time he tested positive was immediately right after his suspension about 6-7 months later before UFC47. Apparently the NSAC accepted the reason for the 2nd positive as residual traces from the 1st offense.
    Thanks for the link.

    Either Tim is a complete idiot and took winny cluelessly, or he is full of it and had actually run it recently before the fight.
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    On a side note I think the effects of AI's, Estro control IN addition to Winny makes nasty sides for your joints. As everytime I think about my lab rat Leon, and his joint pain he runs Adex with Winny on cuts which is a standard in a cut cycle. Those together is what I think makes your joints creak...
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    Quote Originally Posted by NO HYPE
    I think AS usage in MMA is irrelevant. Skill plays a more important factor.

    I agree to a point. Look at Baroni, he was a different beast when juicing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf
    Thanks for the link.

    Either Tim is a complete idiot and took winny cluelessly, or he is full of it and had actually run it recently before the fight.
    Thanks for the good words Beo.

    I can't understand why that dumb sh*t would knowingly risk runnin a cylce, before a championship title match. It had to be due to his stupidity. I can't belive what excuse he gave Rogan. Wasn't it something to the effect of, "I was just usin em to get ripped" Get ripped?... Don't you have to stop bein a fat ass first?
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    I just saw Shamrock vs. Kimo...both had some gyno kickin, and Shamrock's was raging.
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    It is very obvious, I think a lot of hw's and lhw's juice. Mirko probably did, Randleman did/does, Coleman did/does, Ken did/does, Fujita did/does, etc. It's just like any other sport, when people stop progressing how they want to they look for something to take them to the next level because of impatience. I think in fighting this is more prevalent because of the whole one on one dominance disposition a lot of fighters have. Who wants to train their ass off and lose? AAS are easy to get for most and fairly easy to use if they just get some guidance from a coach or fellow juicer. Hell I know plenty of fighters who juice and know nothing about AAS, withdrawl times, sides, pct, anything. Sylvia's usage does not surprise me and I think it was negative because of ignorance.
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    Well since im sure its easy for these fighters to obtain gear it really is a level playing field if you think about it. it just depends on if you are willing to do it or not.

    i would rather see a bunch of juiced up monsters bashing each others faces in than 170lb non juiced regular joes. performance enhancement simply makes the fights more interesting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomi822
    i would rather see a bunch of juiced up monsters bashing each others faces in than 170lb non juiced regular joes. performance enhancement simply makes the fights more interesting.
    Your not sayin that everyone in UFC or Pride is juicin are ya?
    Listen I'm not tryin to be a jerk here but could someone tell me how a guy who is juicin has the advantage over a non juicin "regular joe" with better fighting skills. Roids ain't gonna keep a guy from gettin knocked the fu*k out.
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    AAS use is rampant in MMA. Even some people you don't think are using... Are using. I'm not just talking about Pride (doesn't even test) of UFC either. In alot of these smaller shows across the country there are plenty of fighters on different anabolics. I don't really see anything wrong with it. Its not really creating an "un-level playing field". Its the intangibles that win you a fight not steroids.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf
    I just saw Shamrock vs. Kimo...both had some gyno kickin, and Shamrock's was raging.
    Which fight of theirs are you referring to? The first or second?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fbxdan
    Its not really creating an "un-level playing field". Its the intangibles that win you a fight not steroids.
    Right on..... Could not agree with ya more.
    :bruce1:
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    Quote Originally Posted by fbxdan
    anabolic steroids use is rampant in MMA. Even some people you don't think are using... Are using. I'm not just talking about Pride (doesn't even test) of UFC either. In alot of these smaller shows across the country there are plenty of fighters on different anabolics. I don't really see anything wrong with it. Its not really creating an "un-level playing field". Its the intangibles that win you a fight not steroids.
    How does that make sense? Why do competitors use steroids if it doesn't give them an advantage? Surely it does. Steroids allow fighters to train harder, longer and recover faster and help in recomp and cutting.

    The only reason it wouldn't be be an unlevel playing field is if both competitors who are matched up are both using steroids.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    How does that make sense? Why do competitors use steroids if it doesn't give them an advantage? Surely it does. Steroids allow fighters to train harder, longer and recover faster and help in recomp and cutting.

    The only reason it wouldn't be be an unlevel playing field is if both competitors who are matched up are both using steroids.
    Not all competitors use steroids. Juic'n ain't gonna help u if you are fighting a more skilled opponent. PERIOD. In SOME cases, juicin could be an advantage, but like I've said before.... One has to first FIND an oppertunity.... in order for it to be an advantage. Roids make you stronger, not more skilled.
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    Strength can overcome skill that's why we have weight classes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B4n3 0n3
    Strength can overcome skill that's why we have weight classes.
    So when fighting someone more skilled, how is strength gonna stop ya from gettin knocked out?
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    Quote Originally Posted by NO HYPE
    So when fighting someone more skilled, how is strength gonna stop ya from gettin knocked out?
    Simple, grab the guy and put him in a hold. I have gone against better wrestlers than me and if your are strong enough you can go into a defensive style and hold the guy down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B4n3 0n3
    Simple, grab the guy and put him in a hold. I have gone against better wrestlers than me and if your are strong enough you can go into a defensive style and hold the guy down.
    How is grabbing a guy and putting him in a hold, simple if the other fighter is more skilled? Don't u actually have to catch the guy first?
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    Quote Originally Posted by NO HYPE
    How is grabbing a guy and putting him in a hold, simple if the other fighter is more skilled? Don't u actually have to catch the guy first?
    Sure you gotta catch him but believe me strength helps alot. If strength had nothing to do with fighting then how come the fighters are muscular? Why aren't they a bunch of skinny dudes that look like marathon runners then? I understand where you are comming from to a certain extent but you gotta face reality here that strength plays a huge role in fighting.
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    Of course you need both skill and strength. If you are totally lacking in one or the other, then you are ****ed. The pros are not particularly lacking in either one. Steroid is just that extra edge to win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B4n3 0n3
    Sure you gotta catch him but believe me strength helps alot. If strength had nothing to do with fighting then how come the fighters are muscular? Why aren't they a bunch of skinny dudes that look like marathon runners then? I understand where you are comming from to a certain extent but you gotta face reality here that strength plays a huge role in fighting.
    I didn't say that strength had nothing to do with fighting. I was comparing srength to skill.

    Now I'm not sayin that I can't lose a fight here cuz nobody is that talented and strength can be a definite advantage if first given the oppertunity, but I am an MMA fighter, so I HAVE faced reality. And reality is.... IF.... the other guy can't put me in a hold or can't connect because my skill level is better than his, than he's either gonna be bleed'n profusley about the mouth, or he's gonna be unconscious. Roids or not!
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    Quote Originally Posted by NO HYPE
    Not all competitors use steroids. Juic'n ain't gonna help u if you are fighting a more skilled opponent. PERIOD. In SOME cases, juicin could be an advantage, but like I've said before.... One has to first FIND an oppertunity.... in order for it to be an advantage. Roids make you stronger, not more skilled.

    The issue is not whether competitors use steroids.

    Opportunity?? Steroids ARE ALWAYS GOING TO HELP either way whether a competitor is skilled or not. How is being able to train harder and longer and cut more fat not helping? Extra strength is always an advantage whether someone is in a bad or good position.

    Thinking about it I remember you made the odd comment that cutting weight doesn't help much which is bizzare. Cutting weight in boxing/wrestling especially in the lower weight classes is a HUGE advantage. Rich Franklin who walks at 210-215 off-season cuts all the way down to 185.

    The plain and simple fact is that competitors aren't going to risk testing positive for steroids if it isn't going to help them. Size and strength is a big advantage unless someone is simply totally crap and has lousy skills.
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    There's so many people that think strength is sooo important. They get over here to Bangkok, at a bar, see a fight, offer to get in the ring with a 130lb Thai, and despite their decade of training in the states, get their ass handed to them. It's great fun to watch
  

  
 

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