AAS and MMA
- 07-25-2006, 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by MarcusG
- 07-25-2006, 07:32 PM
07-25-2006, 07:39 PM
So when fighting someone more skilled, how is strength gonna stop ya from gettin knocked out?Originally Posted by B4n3 0n3
07-25-2006, 07:49 PM
Simple, grab the guy and put him in a hold. I have gone against better wrestlers than me and if your are strong enough you can go into a defensive style and hold the guy down.Originally Posted by NO HYPE
07-25-2006, 07:57 PM
How is grabbing a guy and putting him in a hold, simple if the other fighter is more skilled? Don't u actually have to catch the guy first?Originally Posted by B4n3 0n3
07-25-2006, 08:12 PM
Sure you gotta catch him but believe me strength helps alot. If strength had nothing to do with fighting then how come the fighters are muscular? Why aren't they a bunch of skinny dudes that look like marathon runners then? I understand where you are comming from to a certain extent but you gotta face reality here that strength plays a huge role in fighting.Originally Posted by NO HYPE
07-25-2006, 08:25 PM
Of course you need both skill and strength. If you are totally lacking in one or the other, then you are ****ed. The pros are not particularly lacking in either one. Steroid is just that extra edge to win.
07-25-2006, 08:43 PM
I didn't say that strength had nothing to do with fighting. I was comparing srength to skill.Originally Posted by B4n3 0n3
Now I'm not sayin that I can't lose a fight here cuz nobody is that talented and strength can be a definite advantage if first given the oppertunity, but I am an MMA fighter, so I HAVE faced reality. And reality is.... IF.... the other guy can't put me in a hold or can't connect because my skill level is better than his, than he's either gonna be bleed'n profusley about the mouth, or he's gonna be unconscious. Roids or not!
07-25-2006, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by NO HYPE
The issue is not whether competitors use steroids.
Opportunity?? Steroids ARE ALWAYS GOING TO HELP either way whether a competitor is skilled or not. How is being able to train harder and longer and cut more fat not helping? Extra strength is always an advantage whether someone is in a bad or good position.
Thinking about it I remember you made the odd comment that cutting weight doesn't help much which is bizzare. Cutting weight in boxing/wrestling especially in the lower weight classes is a HUGE advantage. Rich Franklin who walks at 210-215 off-season cuts all the way down to 185.
The plain and simple fact is that competitors aren't going to risk testing positive for steroids if it isn't going to help them. Size and strength is a big advantage unless someone is simply totally crap and has lousy skills.
07-25-2006, 09:16 PM
There's so many people that think strength is sooo important. They get over here to Bangkok, at a bar, see a fight, offer to get in the ring with a 130lb Thai, and despite their decade of training in the states, get their ass handed to them. It's great fun to watch
07-25-2006, 09:18 PM
07-25-2006, 09:42 PM
No. The issue here is not wether or not competitors use steroids. The words "Why do you think competitors use steroids" came from your post, not mine. I simply responded.Originally Posted by MarcusG
No. The issue here is not wether steroids are gonna help someone phisically or not. That fact is pretty friggin obvious. The point that was made was that strength or size is not the determining factor in a fight. I ask you. If strength is ALWAYS an advantage in a fight, than how do u justify it being an advantage when the stronger guy is layin on the mat, knocked the fu*k out?
07-25-2006, 09:47 PM
Well put.Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
Damn. You seem to be doin pretty good on the rep points bro.
By the way, what camp did you say you come out of?
07-25-2006, 09:53 PM
Marcus is clearly saying that with all else being equal, the stronger man has an advantage. He never implied that strength was everything.Originally Posted by NO HYPE
07-25-2006, 10:07 PM
All else ain't equal. If all fighters were equal in skill, than there would be no winners. No reason for fighting. The stronger man must first FIND an oppertunity for it to be an advantage.Originally Posted by Alexander
And no he didn't imply that strength was everything, he just implied that strength is ALWAYS an advantage and that is bullsh*t.
07-25-2006, 10:11 PM
Then how do you explain when the more skilled opponent is laying on the mat knocked the **** out?
07-25-2006, 10:19 PM
Well if steroids are rampant in professional sports including prizefighting, then my general statement is correct unless you disagree.Originally Posted by NO HYPE
Your example is flawed since you can't always assume that the guy who knocked him out wasn't on steroids in the first place.
Bullsh!t? A crappy fighter like Kimo would benefit from anabolic steroids, someone as skilled as Fedor would also benefit from steroids since strength is a primary attribute. Strength, stamina, speed and having a good chin are all primary attributes. To say strength is not a factor doesn't make sense.
And you haven't responded why training harder, longer, having less fat and having an easier time cutting while on steroids isn't an advantage.
07-25-2006, 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by B4n3 0n3
Just how did ya come to the conclusion that the guy who gets knocked uncoscious, is the more skilled opponent?
07-25-2006, 10:30 PM
Well lets say that everybody said so and so was a great skilled fighter with much greater skills than his opponent. And then he loses when he was supposedly the more skilled man. It's just as hypothetical as your scenario really.Originally Posted by NO HYPE
07-25-2006, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
Team Dagger? the one with kendal from Hawaii? If so Howzit brah. I had my first pro fight out of hawaii in Warriors Quest. I'm coming out of FSA now in SSF we are under Cesar.
Back to AAS i think it's going to be alot let prevalent now due to the fact kimo got popped and he wasnt' even in a championship fight. NSAC was only testing those involved in Title fights but looks like CSAC is testing whoever it feels like
07-25-2006, 11:10 PM
Your statement was "why do competitors use steroids if it doesn't give them an advatage?" It does give them a physical advantage and I've already posted that. Go ahead see for yourself. What good is a physical advantage if ya can't find a opening to use it? What good is it if the opponent has a skill advantage? You never answered that question.Originally Posted by MarcusG
This statement was proceeded by your suggestion that the only way you can have a level playing field is if both of the fighters are using steroids. That's complete bullsh*t.
As far as my example being flawed, I really have no idea what you were trying to say so I can't respond.
"To say strength is not a factor doesn't make sense." Why are u stating things that are untrue. I didn't say it wasn't a factor, I said it wasn't "the determining factor in a fight."
07-25-2006, 11:14 PM
07-25-2006, 11:28 PM
I'm quite interested in the seen out West. You and MIXEDUP are from the West coast correct? I don't know much about it cuz I'm on the other side of the country and the MMA seen out here is kinda lame at the moment. I have to hurry up and get an official record goin so I can fight at some bigger events as I can't use elbows or knees out here. Some bullsh*t state law. So anyways I'll be sure to look you guys up if I'm ever in the area.Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
07-25-2006, 11:36 PM
Yeah the scene out here is blowing up strikeforce which is held in San Jose is the event that broke the north american record for attendance surpassing even the UFC. The only thing is that we have so many good camps your really have to be well rounded to fight at almost any event WE have so many famous camps within a 100 mile radius from ours which is under cesar gracie, to fairtex, to frank shamrocks school AKA where baroni was training his stand up at. It's unbelievable.Originally Posted by NO HYPE
07-25-2006, 11:56 PM
So it sounds like winning enough of those events would greatly improve one's chances of making it to UFC. Well I guess it really doesn't matter where you fight if you have the skills and determination to go all the way. Hell, Jorge Rivera faught out here with no elbows or knees before making UFC. How about you? Are you making your way to the top? Or are you just enjoying yourself?Originally Posted by mixedup
07-26-2006, 12:06 AM
Well we do have some of the biggest events out here KOTC Gladiator challenge IFC etc Sylvia, shogun Babalu, Lidell, Sanchez have all fought in one of those orgs. As for me making it to the top No I am too old and have too many injuries I'm just making a last run at competing right now before I get way too old lol. But I am realistic about my abilities I've rolled or trained with some of the best in the world and I know that I am not world class and probablly never would be. I fight basically for myself so that when I am old i can say I was a professional fighter at one time in my life and also so I can tell my kids about it one day. For me it's about personal accomplishmentsOriginally Posted by NO HYPE
07-26-2006, 12:07 AM
A strength advantage can and will overcome a skill advantage. Just take a look at Matt Hughes-Gracie. Having more strength also means having the ability to wear down an opponent and getting ahead by attrition.Originally Posted by NO HYPE
I was referring to your scenario you gave in your previous post
".....If strength is ALWAYS an advantage in a fight, than how do u justify it being an advantage when the stronger guy is layin on the mat, knocked the fu*k out?"
Steroids are an advantage for a competitor who is using them hence my comment about a level playing field.
07-26-2006, 12:16 AM
07-26-2006, 12:21 AM
I disagree about the strength thing. When I was training and competing, I was 170 at 6 foot 2, hardly strong, but I would submit lots of stronger guys or wear them down because I had better cardio and patience.
07-26-2006, 12:21 AM
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