Wanderlei vs Chuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- 07-09-2006, 12:00 AM
- 07-09-2006, 12:51 AM
I couldn't ****ing believe that the crowd was dead silent when Silva entered the ring. They had no clue who he is
- 07-09-2006, 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
07-09-2006, 01:05 AM
07-09-2006, 01:43 AM
That's true, but those fights were 6 and 8 years ago. Is he the same fighter he was then? His record is impressive. I saw his fight against Hunt (with the infamous Atomic Butt Drop), and even Hunt thought Silva should have taken it.Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
Regardless, it'll be a great fight. Silva won't be able to drop some of his strongest strikes. UFC limitations may hold him back. It would be a very different fight in Japan.
07-09-2006, 03:27 AM
Wow, thats awesome! Going to have to go with Wandy on this one, and as stated before, you bet your ass they'll find out who Wand is.
07-09-2006, 03:33 AM
Please, Wandy was a kid in those fights. After he wins the OWGP, owns Chuck, and topples Fedor, you'll change your tune. Alright, I'm not really predicting this, but I wouldn't complain.Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
Silva won the Hunt fight under UFC scorin for sure. It was close, but Pride scoring is kind of weird. I thought the 10 kilo weight difference would have given that fight to Wandy.
Anyway, the announcement made that $@@tty ppv almost worth it. What next Rickson/Saku
07-09-2006, 10:00 AM
Wanderlei is going to demolish Liddell....
Rogue.. Wandy may be coming over to UFC... I've heard rumors of Pride's primary investor backing out, causing alot of guys to jump ship, ala Rampage Jackson to Bas Rutten's new fight line. I'm sure we'll see more Pride guys jumping ship, and I hope alot of them go to UFC to liven things up. UFC doesnt have the quality fighters that Pride has, maybe Hughes, but that is about it.
07-09-2006, 10:13 AM
Primary investor? Absolute nonsense. The Fujitv deal is reportedly on 15% of Pride's total revenue. The big money maker for Pride is not tv broadcasting contracts or ppv's - its the live gate.Originally Posted by tattoopierced1
07-09-2006, 10:35 AM
I'm not saying Pride is going under, I am just speculating from talking to others and the move of some fighters to other orgs. that the 15% could affect some fighters pay, and may prompt fighters to start looking elsewhere.
07-09-2006, 10:42 AM
Just to post more on the FujiTV dealings:
the wrestling blog » PRIDE, Fuji TV, and the Yakuza
In what is probably the biggest story in all of MMA or wrestling over the last two years, and quite possibly the biggest story in MMA ever, Fuji TV abruptly canceled PRIDE from their schedule and severed all ties with the company yesterday afternoon, just five days before the Bushido show was set to air. Not only is the future of PRIDE seriously in doubt because of this, but just to show how intertwined MMA and professional wrestling have become, the future of several wrestling companies (Hustle and Zero-One) could also be dramatically changed by this recent upheavel as well.
For those that don’t know, Fuji TV is pretty much the lifeblood of PRIDE. They have an exclusive contract with PRIDE worth hundreds of millions of yen. Conversely, it’s because of this massive TV contract that PRIDE is pretty much able to sign and retain most of the top fighters in the world. Without Fuji TV, not only will PRIDE lose its sole source of exposure in Japan, but it will also lose its primary means of revenue as well. Even if they are able to quickly find a new television home (I’ve heard Tokai TV in Nagoya and Nippon TV mentioned), there is just no way that PRIDE will be able to get a deal as lucrative as their arrangement with Fuji TV.
Fuji TV faxed the media yesterday afternoon to let them know they had dropped PRIDE. While they didn’t specify the reason for the cancellation of one of the most successful television products in Japan, citing only “a breach of contract by Dream Stage Entertainment,” the reason was pretty obvious to anyone who had been following the news:
PRIDE, as well as its parent company Dream Stage Entertainment, is heavily involved with the Japanese mafia (the yakuza).
While PRIDE’s involvement with the yakuza is rumored to extend all the way back to the start of the company, the real story starts to pick up in 2003 with some good old-fashioned extortion.
In December of 2003, Nobuyuki Sakakibara—who is for all intents and purposes not only the boss, but the dictator of PRIDE as well—recieved word that a rival promotion was going to use one of PRIDE’s top draws, Fedor Emelianenko, for their upcoming New Year’s Eve special on Nippon TV.
Three weeks later, on December 21st, 2003, the producer of the upcoming special (Mr. Seiya Kawamata) was cornered in a room at the Akaska Tokyu Hotel. The door was lock behind him, and Sakakibara (PRIDE’s dictator), Mr. I (yakuza boss and true owner of PRIDE), and several other members of the P Gumi crime family “had a little talk” with him about using Fedor at their event.
When it became clear that Fedor was going to work the New Year’s show regardless of threats, Sakakibara showed up at the event with several high-ranking yakuza members and forced the show’s producer (Kawamata) to sign a contract stating that Fedor was the sole property of Dream Stage Entertainment and PRIDE. It was either sign or be killed, so Kawamata signed the contract.
A month later, Kawamata was summoned to the main office of the P Gumi yakuza family. He was told that, because Fedor was the exclusive property of Dream Stage, yet he had chosen to use him anyway, he owed approximately 20 million yen to the P Gumi family. It’s not readily clear whether or not Kawamata paid the yakuza or not.
Everything remained silent on the matter until about four months ago, when several yakuza members were arrested for extortion and kidnapping in relation to the incident. While they were quickly released due to a lack of evidence, police hit gold when they arrested several other high-ranking members of the family several days later. One of the men arrested was the true yakuza owner of PRIDE, Mr. I. Somehow though—this all remains a big mystery—most of these high-ranking yakuza, including Mr. I, escaped and have since completely disappeared.
Kawamata, the producer who the yakuza had extorted, has fled Japan out of fear for his life and gone into hiding overseas. Unfortunately, even there he hasn’t been safe from the yakuza. On April 10th, Kawamata called the police at 2:00 in the morning to report that his secret location had been compromised and that the yakuza were at the door trying to get into his house. The men fled when police arrived, but Kawamata told the officers, “As soon as I became involved in the fight game, I was targeted by the yakuza. How long will I be a target to get hit by the yakuza?â€”
Shukan Gendai, a tabloid newspaper in Japan, has been bringing these issues to light in recent weeks, and the story has absolutely exploded in Japan. While wrestling is somewhat popular in America, MMA and professional wrestling are societal backbones of Japan. To say this story is huge in Japan is as big of an understatement as you’re going to find.
Furthermore, the story has also raised numerous new questions about the 2003 “suicide” of then PRIDE boss Naoto Mori****a. PRIDE was going through some severe financial difficulties in 2003, and after having dinner with Hiromichi Momose (another PRIDE big-wig), PRIDE boss Naoto Mori****a went up to his hotel room and commit suicide, somehow hanging himself from the shower rail of the Tokyo Hilton suite. He left a wife and small child behind.
Mr. I appointed his right hand man, Mr. Sakakibara, as the new head of PRIDE, and both men quickly began circulating press releases insinuating that Mori****a’s suicide was somehow related to an affair he had been having with a young mistress. According to one source, “It is a common tactic of the yakuza to use sex scandals to explain strange ‘suicides’. It’s a very effective tactic in Japan, and the grieving widow makes less noise when there is a sexual scandal attached.”
Mori****a’s “mistress” disappeared shortly thereafter, and his family never recieved his shares in the company—which have since ended up in yakuza hands.
As the story of PRIDE’s corruption continues to snowball in Japan, Fuji TV (which looks as if it might be implicated in the yakuza scandal as well) made the decision to sever all ties with PRIDE. Although PRIDE recieved a great deal of money from the television station, Fuji TV stands to lose just as much from this situation as PRIDE.
Where this leaves PRIDE, as well as the entire world-wide MMA scene, is dramatically up in the air right now. If PRIDE does die, things are going to get really interesting in Japan. Guys like Fedor and Cro-Cop have infinitely more value in Japan than they do in the United States, and Dana White just isn’t going to reach into his pocket and pay PRIDE fighters what their worth. So what we’re probably looking at, in the event that PRIDE does go under, is the birth of at least two or three new MMA companies in Japan, as well as the possibility of another big name or two jumping to HEROES. And with all of these new revelations coming up, it’s pretty obvious that Sakuraba saw this firestorm coming and got out while he could.
Things are so combustible right now that just about anything could happen. Perhaps the best quote I’ve found comes from a message board, with one user saying, “to me, the sudden collapse of PRIDE is the equivalent of Don King and Bob Arum dying in a plane crash and forgetting to leave wills.”
Anyway, if you’re an MMA fan, or even if you’re not, this is going to be a hell of an interesting story to follow.
*Thanks to Zach Arnold of FightOpinion.com for his translation of all the Shukan Gendai articles. Zach’s been bringing attention to this scandal for a couple of months now, and it looks like he was right on the money.
07-09-2006, 11:29 AM
I was in fact drinking...you got a problem with that :bruce1:Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
I'm guessing this fight will garner more exposure for Pride in the US. I wonder if they made the decision dependent on a pisspoor super-hyped Ortiz vs. Shamrock showing. Regardless, Tito vs. Chuck II would be a great fight, and that won't be happening until winter at the earliest.
07-09-2006, 01:35 PM
I went crazy when they announced this and nobody at my house had a clue what I was excited aboutOriginally Posted by Mulletsoldier
I'm not a betting man, but my money is on Vanderlei despite not being able to soccer kick. I can't wait to see this blood bath. You know these two guys will end up standing toe to toe with fists flying!
Last edited by stxnas; 07-09-2006 at 01:51 PM.
07-09-2006, 01:58 PM
Yeah, well I had heard on MMA boards and pretty much all over that Chuck wanted Wandy, so I had a feeling that is what is was going to be. Then soon as White said "And my good friend"..I got excited. So he comes on and my friends are like "who is that". I spent an hour discussing on the wonders of Pride.Originally Posted by stxnas
07-09-2006, 05:49 PM
Pride's first US event will be on 10/21 so this will foloow that event and, hopefully, allow for more exposure of the fighters in Pride, especially the heavyweights.
I would love to see Fedor, Nog, or CC against Sylvia just to shut him the **** up.
07-09-2006, 06:10 PM
Most definitely man. I was thinking today as I was watching some of Fedor's highlights how horribly he would dominate Sylvia. I would rejoice if that would happen so then people who think UFC is the end all and be all of MMA would be shown the light. One of my friends even said last night "So there are guys better than Lidell in this Pride Fighting ****"..I just shook my head and said sweet Jesus.Originally Posted by Rodja
07-09-2006, 06:31 PM
OMG, I just watched Sylvia's post-fight comments on Sherdog and I hope and pray Fedor will come over and beat his ass..Little ****? Little ****? I almost threw my computer, that is the most ridiculously arrogant thing I have ever heard. You don't have one loss on your record, early on in your career, by being a little ****. It's official I hate Tim Sylvia
07-09-2006, 08:25 PM
I remember watching a PPV within the past two years or so and Wandy was in the crowd. If I can recall correctly Chuck called him out of the crowd and they both stood in the middle of the cage toe to toe. I think there may have even been a little pushing too. Does anybody else remember this? I thought that was why Chuck ended up going over to Pride for the GP...to get a shot at Wandy.Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
07-09-2006, 08:49 PM
07-09-2006, 09:51 PM
Oh man, how great is this for the fans and for MMA?? This announcement was by far the best part of last night's PPV. Wandy is going whip that ass.
But man, if I'm Sobral, I'm thinking "WTF, man???" because everyone is already looking way past him to Chuck's match-up with Wandy!
And what happens if Sobral pulls off the upset? Does Chuck still fight Wandy or does Sobral fight Wandy?
In any case, I think this is an awesome step forward for MMA.
07-09-2006, 11:35 PM
I think it was discussed a little in another thread, but how much face do you believe UFC will lose with if it's fans if, and when Wandy beats Chuck? The fact they are bringing him in (on Chuck's request and Wandy's acceptance no doubt) screams that there is NO viable competition in the UFC, making Chucky the golden boy so to speak. If an outsider beats him that could be bad news bear for the UFC. The only reason I think it will not be is at least 50% of the people watching UFC are people who only started watching because of TUF and know nothing about Pride. Then again, their fickle nature could be swung in Pride's favour if Wandy destroys Liddell
07-09-2006, 11:40 PM
07-09-2006, 11:43 PM
07-10-2006, 01:21 AM
I want Silva to beat Chuck, but styles make fights, and Chuck could give Silva some trouble. In the Pride ring Silva would be more of a favorite. Taking away knees and kicks on the ground takes away a lot of the axe murderer aspect of Vanderlei's game.Originally Posted by Beowulf
07-10-2006, 07:35 AM
first of all sobral aint gonna do **** cuz chucks takedown defense is top. sobral will get ko'ed, so that ends that.
mullet u mustve lost some money on the sylvia fight to hate the guys so much haha
chuck isnt very effective in PRIDE. the fight is going to be UFC right? i would take chuck in this one but i wouldnt put money on it.
as far as the last PPV, that sucked. Esp. the tito ken fight, that ref would have got knocked the **** out if i was shamrock or even close to the ring, shoot id be waiting in the parkin lot for herb dean! He stopped it to soon im sorry, at least 5-7 more heavy elbows....at least let shamrock have to earn his paycheck and fork it over to the hospital after haha
07-10-2006, 11:31 AM
I donít want to write Chuck off on this one. Heís a devastating hitter and its UFC rules. Wandy is one tuff SOB but so is Chuck.
07-10-2006, 11:43 AM
I was thinking the same thing about a DQ. I don't know if Wandy can not go for the kill. I could also see Chuck poking Wandy in the eye to escape the thai clinch. Not saying for sure that Chuck pokes at the eyes on purpose, but he has a tendency to put his hand in a guys face to get out of the clinch.Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
Take a look at Wandy's elbow in this picture:
Wandy using elbows=scary - Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums
Those could be some brutal weapons...although he probably wouldn't get a chance to use them.
I'll give Dana some respect (since I have bad mouthed him before) for putting together the fight that true fans of mma have wanted. I don't know if it will be the best business move, though.
Rogue, I didn't pick up on your sarcasm earlier because people still bring up the Belfort as an indicator of Silva's skill level today on some mma boards.......and yeah I'd had a few beers too.
07-10-2006, 01:02 PM
Oh definitely not, I'm not a betting manOriginally Posted by pistonpump
I just could not believe he was that arrogant, and called Fedor a little ****. Fedor would beat that lanky bastard so hard his training partners would feel it.
07-10-2006, 02:04 PM
W/regards to the knees and kicks on the ground, I was wondering about Wandy's ability to not attack in the way he has been training to for the last few years. I would think much of what these guys do is a conditioned response to circumstance, and Wandy's to an opponent on his back is to stomp on the guy's head. It must be really hard to avoid such a conditioned response.
I have little doubt that Wandy will capitalize on the elbows, though. He's an evil ****er.
07-10-2006, 02:08 PM
This may stir a few dresses, but I really don't think the differing rules will effect Wandy that much. These are highly, highly conditioned athletes who make a living adapting to change. You know that during the lead up to this fight Wandy will be training to fight within UFC rules, so he can hammer Chuck in his own ring. Granted, I think the fight would be shorter if it was in Pride, but even still, Wandy is no amateur who is gonna be psyched out by a different rule scheme.
07-10-2006, 03:42 PM
I think Wandy is looking to make a name for Chutebox in the US, plus he needs to step down and let Shogun see what he can do in Pride. Anybody who thinks the Tito vs Shamrock stopage was wrong is on a crack. I wonder what fight they were watching. The one I saw had Shamrock complete dazed with his hands by his side taking 6 elbows to the face. Shamrock had no chance. Go back to WWE.
07-10-2006, 04:08 PM
I just keep thinking, clinch and Silva just starts throwing elbows.
I am excited just to think that it may happen. First Liddell needs to take care of Babalu, who I imagine is not to pleased with being dismissed so readily. Babalu is no pushover he has fought many top tier fighters.
07-10-2006, 04:18 PM
I am not on "crack" and I think it was stopped to soon. A dazed fighter is not a finished fighter. Ortiz should have been allowed to finish it. Shamrock's hands were still relatively high(if you look at the video when the ref is coming in to stop it, Shamrock's right arm is high trying to cover his face adn get the inside position against Ortiz's left arm) and Ortiz was still in his guard(it is open though) with Ortiz stacking him dropping elbows.Originally Posted by Pope
07-10-2006, 04:23 PM
And honestly his losses have come from some big names. He's on a streak of something like 10 wins in a row right now too. He could end up playing the role of the spoiler, but I hope not!Originally Posted by size
07-10-2006, 09:57 PM
Babalu has a very good chance of beating Chuck. Ever since that IFC tournament where he beat Prangley, Shogun, and Horn he has been steamrolling. To be fair Shogun was still a bit wet behind the ears at the time. Has anyone here seen the WEF event back in 99' I think, where Babalu destroys Brad Kohler? That was a stacked card.
07-11-2006, 12:47 AM
Never seen it, but I remember Brad Kohler from that big KO he had in UFC 22. He seemed very quick, powerful, and explosive and looked like a badass. Never really heard much from him after that and I see that he's lost 8 in a row.Originally Posted by Alexander
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