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UFC vs Pride

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    You guys are pretty harsh on Rogan huh. While Bas is the man, I think that Rogan has become more bearable over the years.

    You also can't beat the octagon in UFC, those ropes on the boxing ring for pride have to go. Youve got guys trying to punch through them for christ sake. Also in Pride they stop the fights too early many of the time. But I do like the head stomp in Pride.

    Any of you guys see the last Pride- Bushido tournament? That was sick, their lightweight fights were amazing.

    I think that Pride is stronger in the lightweight and heavyweight divisions while UFC is stronger in the welterweight division

    However I really don't see anyone beating Arlovski right now, I dont care who it is from Pride. Same goes for GSP, and Gomi from Pride. I think those are the top 3 guys out there.

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    The cage favours wrestlers.
    Competitors can still strike through, around, above the ropes in Pride. Since no-one wants to hurt their hands/feet accidently against the fence, the only thing left to do is clinch.
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    Quaid, you don't think anyone can beat Arlovski? I mean don't get me wrong Arlovski is the man, but who has he fought? Most of his wins are against b level fighters. I mean he beat Freeman, Vladdy, Cabbage, Sylvia, Eilers, and Buentello. Those are all b level fighters. I like him, just have'nt seen him tested yet. I think there are 3-5 guys in Pride that would handle him. Fedor, Noquiera, Kharitonov would all beat him IMO, and lil' Emelianenko, Werdum, Hunt, and a few others would give him trouble. The thing with the UFC having a better WW division is that UFC WW = 170. Pride's divisions are 160 and 183. I think the UFC WW division would do well against the Pride LW division, but not against the Pride WW division. Now Pride WW versus UFC middleweight is tough to call. I mean Franklin, Louiseou, Tanner, Prangley, Horn(I'm missing a few) all tough dudes. Then you have for Pride Hendo, Busta, maybe Kondo, Baroni, Chonan. Its tough to call I guess I'd go with UFC MW's. Although I think hendo would wreck anyone 185 and under.
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    Your right in a sense that he hasnt been truely tested by any great fighets yet. And it doesnt look like he will be tested any time soon. I mean Frank Mir testing Arlovski? Arlovski is going to destroy him. I would disagree that there are 3-5 fighters that would hangle him but it is unfortunate that we will probably never know. How exciting would Fedor vs. Arlovski be?!

    And unfortunately I havent gotten the chance to see Hendo fight, but now you've got me even more eager to see him.

    The only other thing I disagree with is that I personally think Baroni sucks. I mean did you see him at the last Pride? That was embarrassing, has he ever heard of a sprawl? I can't remember the Japaneese guy he fought but he was a B level fighter and he took him down with ease every time, and it was so obvious he was going for it.
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    I'd like to see another Fedor v Cro-cop fight. I was mad to see cro-cop lose and would really like to see him take Fedor, i just think he needs to work alot more on his ground game.
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    Quaid, I agree with you Baroni sucks. I don't know why I threw his name in their. It was Minowa that he could'nt stop from taking him down. That was there second fight, Baroni KO'd him in the first fight. Now that I'm on the Baroni topic, did any of you guys watch him in that toughman challenge on FX about 5 years back. Anyways he acted 10 times worse on their then he does in UFC or Pride. "I'm the ****ing man, repeat 5 times", remember after he beat Menne. Hopefully Pride will get Arlovski eventually(they have been talking with him). Arlovski physically has the potential to be the best, I just dont know if he has the heart/smarts to be the best. Man if they get Arlovski in next years GP along with Fedor, Nogueira, Kharitonov, Cro, and the rest of the Pride Heavies I'm going to Japan.
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    Everyone Arlovski beat were a bunch of cans except for a quick sub of Sylvia. I've never seen him having to dig deep or escape precarious situations against elite opponents.
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    And unfortunately I havent gotten the chance to see Hendo fight, but now you've got me even more eager to see him.
    Henderson is one of my favorite fighters. He used to fight at 205, and would always fight guys 20 + and hold his own. 185 is def. his weight though.
    Though he does have wild, looping punches, if he connects he usually knocks people out.
    He's hurt V. Silva with one of them...
    He fought well again Nog, but eventually lost to sub.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wedgylx
    I've got to say that Pride has a way higher caliber of fighter than UFC. I love watching both, but have to say I'm much more impressed with Pride.

    Put Cro-Cop or Fedor in the ring with any UFC fighter and you'll have a blood bath...

    Lidell is one of the better fighters in UFC and when he tried to fight in Pride he lost to a mid-level fighter...granted this was a few years ago and lidell has gotten better, but I still think it says alot for Pride.
    I know alot of you guys wont agree, but I think the UFC has by far better fighters than pride.

    You said about about Liddell losing to mid level fighters, but yet vanderlie lost to Belfort in UFC and Tito beat Vanderlie, so your example isnt very accurate at all. You cant really guage it that way, I dont think.

    The bottom line is, pride has way better rules, they allow kicks on the ground and the UFC takes out those things (that is a problem in the UFC)

    But if you look at where most of all moves and techniques are developed, its in the UFC.

    The only new recent one I have seen out of pride, is the "gator roll" or as Antonio calls it "the anaconda"

    Most of the newest techniques come out of the UFC because the calibre of fighters is alot higher.

    This comes with a few rules...

    First pride has better rules
    UFC has better technique
    Pride allows super heavy weights to fight
    UFC has a cage, and you cant run
    Pride has a better developed heavy weight division...
    UFC has way better lightweight and middle weight and welter weight division

    Alot of the fighters that make up pride are fighters that couldnt stay long in the UFC, but then you have great russians like fedor and kharitonov, you have mirco and the K1 fighters, so pride has developed more a broad sense of taking all comers, even ones that are down on their luck like phil baroni.

    Look what Yeves edwards did... he wanted to fight the best in his divison and it wasnt in the UFC... so he went to pride. But you see tons of Japanese coming to UFC as well, to test themselves.

    For most fighters if you ask them, they will tell you, the first show they seen was the UFC as it is the Grand daddy of the sport and pride is just a new comer on to the scene. Most want to fight in the UFC but wont get a chance.

    I personally love the pride rules, the kicks and stomps. I hate whiners that say, take out the kicks. I think they need to bring back old school Vale tudo rules with head butts, ground kicks and other things but in the UFC that is not possible as people get injured too quickly with kicks against the fence.

    So in that issue pride is much better.

    if you take the best fighters in the world, you can see who rules, the ufc or pride and its a combination of the two

    SUPER HEAVYWEIGHTS:
    PRIDE:
    waterman, sapp, Zulu

    UFC:
    NONE WAHHHHHHH

    PRIDE IS BETTER IN SUPER HEAVYWEIGHTS

    HEAVYWEIGHTS
    Pride:
    Fedor, sergie, nogueria (three really strong ones and many more)

    UFC: heavyweight
    arlovski, Frank Mir, Sivlia, Cabbage (2 strong ones)

    PRIDE WINS


    Light heavyweights
    Pride:
    Ninja, Vanderlie, nogueria, volchanchyn, rampage

    UFC:
    tito, belfort, liddell, couture, forrest, Sobral, bonnar, Wiuff, and many more

    UFC has the lightweight division easy in my opinion

    Middleweights
    Pride:
    Filho, yushin okami, rodrigo gracie (non existant division)

    UFC:
    leben, rich franklin, tanner, swick, jermey horn, Loiseau, quarry, hallman, shonie, doerkson (i could go on)

    Again UFC all the way in mid weight

    Welterweight
    Too big to list for UFC compared to pride. Ufc has major depth in the welterweights. hughs, st pierre, trigg on and on

    I give the lightweight and featherweight to Pride

    So....

    Super heavyweights = Pride
    Heavyweights = Pride
    LightHeavy = UFC
    Midde = UFC
    Welter = UFC
    Light = Pride (most of ufcs fighters went to pride for competition
    fly = Pride

    You can look at this as 4 against 3 for pride, but I look at more factors than this

    ------
    so pride owns the top and the bottom.. UFC owns the middle

    Its pretty even if you ask me. I personally like prides rules and UFCs technique and if I had to choose one...

    I would choose UFC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaid
    You guys are pretty harsh on Rogan huh. While Bas is the man, I think that Rogan has become more bearable over the years.

    You also can't beat the octagon in UFC, those ropes on the boxing ring for pride have to go. Youve got guys trying to punch through them for christ sake. Also in Pride they stop the fights too early many of the time. But I do like the head stomp in Pride.

    Any of you guys see the last Pride- Bushido tournament? That was sick, their lightweight fights were amazing.

    I think that Pride is stronger in the lightweight and heavyweight divisions while UFC is stronger in the welterweight division

    However I really don't see anyone beating Arlovski right now, I dont care who it is from Pride. Same goes for GSP, and Gomi from Pride. I think those are the top 3 guys out there.

    I think.. fedor would smoke on arlovski... I think nogueria and Frank mir would both submit orlovski

    I think arlovski rocks, but I agree, he hasnt really been tested. No where close to what nogueira and fedor have been tested.
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    What would be your guys dream matches...

    UFC VS PRIDE

    I say....

    Fedor VS Arlovski (id call fedor)

    Vanderlie VS liddell, tito or Couture

    Mirco VS Arlovski (id like to see arlovski deal with his kicks!)

    Tim Silvia VS Mirco or Nogueria!!!

    Tank abbot VS bob SApp

    The last one for pure striking enjoyment, although i bet sapp would submit tank some how... everyone else does. hehe

    ZULU VS takanori gomi (okay i am having fun)
  12. Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghpink6
    I know alot of you guys wont agree, but I think the UFC has by far better fighters than pride.
    You said about about Liddell losing to mid level fighters, but yet vanderlie lost to Belfort in UFC and Tito beat Vanderlie, so your example isnt very accurate at all. You cant really guage it that way, I dont think.
    Tito/Belfort beating Wandy is old news since Wandy has improved. Why not mention more recently Jackson beat Liddell and Kharitonov punked Rizzo.

    The bottom line is, pride has way better rules, they allow kicks on the ground and the UFC takes out those things (that is a problem in the UFC)
    But if you look at where most of all moves and techniques are developed, its in the UFC.
    The only new recent one I have seen out of pride, is the "gator roll" or as Antonio calls it "the anaconda"
    Most of the newest techniques come out of the UFC because the calibre of fighters is alot higher.
    .....
    You are so wrong here I wouldn't know where to start. The overall skill level in UFC is significantly lower compared to Pride. UFC is full of big sloppy bangers.
    What are some of the so called 'NEW' techniques that came of out the UFC?

    Alot of the fighters that make up pride are fighters that couldnt stay long in the UFC, but then you have great russians like fedor and kharitonov, you have mirco and the K1 fighters, so pride has developed more a broad sense of taking all comers, even ones that are down on their luck like phil baroni.

    Look what Yeves edwards did... he wanted to fight the best in his divison and it wasnt in the UFC... so he went to pride. But you see tons of Japanese coming to UFC as well, to test themselves.
    Wrong. Pride isn't made up of washed up UFC fighters. Not a single UFC 'who couldn't stay long' is considered a top fighter in Pride.
    Edwards is the best UFC LW and he didn't get past Pride's own LW.
    And you are wrong about the 'tons' of Japanese coming to UFC. There are just 1 maybe not even 2 who came over.

    For most fighters if you ask them, they will tell you, the first show they seen was the UFC as it is the Grand daddy of the sport and pride is just a new comer on to the scene. Most want to fight in the UFC but wont get a chance.
    .......
    Wrong, most fighters would want to compete in Pride for more money. Franklin made a measly 26,000 for his last fight. No wonder Mir who is UFC HW champion has to work as a bouncer in his 2nd job and broke his leg when he had a motorcycle accident coming back home at night.

    if you take the best fighters in the world, you can see who rules, the ufc or pride and its a combination of the two

    SUPER HEAVYWEIGHTS:
    PRIDE:
    waterman, sapp, Zulu
    UFC:
    NONE WAHHHHHHH
    PRIDE IS BETTER IN SUPER HEAVYWEIGHTS
    HEAVYWEIGHTS
    Pride:
    Fedor, sergie, nogueria (three really strong ones and many more)
    UFC: heavyweight
    arlovski, Frank Mir, Sivlia, Cabbage (2 strong ones)
    PRIDE WINS
    There is no SHW division in UFC or Pride.
    And Mir is not strong. He gassed against Simms and Freeman.

    Light heavyweights
    Pride:
    Ninja, Vanderlie, nogueria, volchanchyn, rampage
    UFC:
    tito, belfort, liddell, couture, forrest, Sobral, bonnar, Wiuff, and many more
    UFC has the lightweight division easy in my opinion
    Why didn't you mention Shogun who won the GP, Overeem who beat Belfort and Vov and Arona who beat Silva?
    Pride has 8 great MW.
    Forrest and Bonnar are TUF noobs who will be overmatched against any top-15.
    The only good UFC LHWs are Tito, Belfort, Liddell, Couture, Sobral. There are no 'many more'.

    Middleweights
    Pride:
    Filho, yushin okami, rodrigo gracie (non existant division)
    UFC:
    leben, rich franklin, tanner, swick, jermey horn, Loiseau, quarry, hallman, shonie, doerkson (i could go on)
    Again UFC all the way in mid weight
    Pride has Henderson and Bustamante so its not non-existant. Its still weaker than UFC but not very much so. And again Shonie, Doerkson and all the TUF noobs like Leben, Quarry, Swick are not great or that good except to the clueless casual viewer.

    Welterweight
    Too big to list for UFC compared to pride. Ufc has major depth in the welterweights. hughs, st pierre, trigg on and on
    I give the lightweight and featherweight to Pride
    So....
    Super heavyweights = Pride
    Heavyweights = Pride
    LightHeavy = UFC
    Midde = UFC
    Welter = UFC
    Light = Pride (most of ufcs fighters went to pride for competition
    fly = Pride
    You can look at this as 4 against 3 for pride, but I look at more factors than this
    There is no flyweight division.
    UFC's HW is non-existant and LHW much weaker. The heavier weight classes are the most interesting to watch and this is where UFC falls flat on its face.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghpink6

    Most of the newest techniques come out of the UFC because the calibre of fighters is alot higher.

    I always find it funny when someone thinks they've developed a new technique. Martial arts have been around for thousands of years, there are no new techniques. There are only the techniques you know and the techniques you don't know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunk
    I always find it funny when someone thinks they've developed a new technique. Martial arts have been around for thousands of years, there are no new techniques. There are only the techniques you know and the techniques you don't know.
    Why do you guys always nit pick so much? Its so silly, its like your 15 year old kids.

    When I say new techniques, do you think Royce gracies technique was new when he fought in UFC 1? No.

    If you think about it, they had been fighting and beating up guys in brazil for more then a half a century before UFC came on the scene.

    Was Gracies technique new to everyone who was fighting?
    YES. Most people had no clue how to fight on the ground and the Gracies introduced a ground game when most would tried to stand up.

    Why nit pick and lets look to adding to some convo instead of trying to mock someone or trying to appear as if you are superior?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghpink6
    Originally Posted by ghpink6
    I know alot of you guys wont agree, but I think the UFC has by far better fighters than pride.
    You said about about Liddell losing to mid level fighters, but yet vanderlie lost to Belfort in UFC and Tito beat Vanderlie, so your example isnt very accurate at all. You cant really guage it that way, I dont think
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    Tito/Belfort beating Wandy is old news since Wandy has improved. Why not mention more recently Jackson beat Liddell and Kharitonov punked Rizzo.
    Well if you read what I said above... I just mentioned that someone was talking about liddell losing in pride to mid level fighters... then I mentioned liddell beat tito and belfort, and they both had beat vanderlie. What I said, which you obviously missed my point is... its anybodys night.

    Just because liddell lost to rampage, rampage lost to vanderlie, that doesnt mean vanderlie can beat liddell.

    Styles makes fights man, and any fighter can win on any given night, which is what you missed and I was trying to point out.

    Sure vanderlie is a better fighter now since he lost to tito and belfort, but liddell is a better fighter since he lost to rampage.

    You cannot compare fights like that, he lost to this guy, so this guy is better than he is.. which is the point i was trying to make

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    You are so wrong here I wouldn't know where to start. The overall skill level in UFC is significantly lower compared to Pride. UFC is full of big sloppy bangers.
    What are some of the so called 'NEW' techniques that came of out the UFC?
    Well for starters UFC was here in 1991 and brought the ground game, which revolutionised and created mixed martial arts.

    When they decided to host UFC and show the world who is better, they made MMA was it is today. No longer could anyone in the martial arts train in one field. They had to cross train.

    That is something the UFC brought.

    Another technique they brought before Pride was even an organization is the idea of grecko roman wrestling.

    There was a battle in the USA over which was more dominate. Could BJJ rule over WRESTLING. This lead in to the ground in pound in order to fight the BJJ domaination on the ground.

    Again before pride was even an organization, after everyone started at UFC 1 and were mostly standing up, doing stupid kicks and inefficient techniques, the gracies brought it to the ground to show, this is needed or you die.

    After that, the wrestler wanted to use his techniqe to not only bring the BJJ down to the ground, but to pound his guard in to oblivion (this was all created by competition in the UFC)

    The BJJ got smart and started to train in Muay Thai, to keep it standing to avoid ground and pound.

    This was the beginning of how we went from stand up to ground wars, to stand up, back to ground wars, and now we are in a hybrid stand up K1 style with really good ground wars.

    There are tons of ways techniques were refined in the UFC because of the evolution of the sport.

    Its happening in pride as well, and in a different way. The only difference is that UFC had an earlier start and different rules.


    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    Wrong. Pride isn't made up of washed up UFC fighters. Not a single UFC 'who couldn't stay long' is considered a top fighter in Pride.
    Edwards is the best UFC LW and he didn't get past Pride's own LW.
    And you are wrong about the 'tons' of Japanese coming to UFC. There are just 1 maybe not even 2 who came over
    Well I said... alot of fighters that couldnt stay in UFC are in pride... I should have said this differently.

    I in no way am saying the bulk of pride is washed up fighters. Thats ridiculous....

    But what I was saying is this.

    Most fighters from the UFC, only go to Pride because UFC wont pay them anymore because they werent producing. Whereas pride is loyal to their fighters, UFC is cutthroat.

    Gary goodridge is a good example. He did great in the UFC but coulndt maintain, and he counldnt get another match. So he went to pride and was welcomed with open arms.

    Mark coleman is another one. He was considered washed up in the UFC as he lost too many times at the end, and he went to pride and was given tons of fights.

    Shamrock, Don Frye, pedro rizzo, marco ruas, bustamante, josh barnett (he fought with management), mario sperry, royce gracie (the whole gracie clan left UFC because matches had time limits, rounds and were stood up, to keep the USA fan interested), dan henderson, yuki kondo, vanderlie silva, vitor belofort, and many more all got their start in the big show, at UFC. But they couldnt dominate with the constant high competition. They didnt keep getting the fights from the UFC so they went to other organizations that were nicer.

    Pride doesnt do the same thing to fighters that the UFC does. Its good that the UFC does that because they have a high level of compeition, but its bad, because fighters get better when they lose and you miss alot of their cream of the crop fights (in ufc) where as pride is a good place for fighters to age, learn and retire.

    Also... look at Charles crazy horse bennet (drug user and constantly in jail) he coulndt get a match in the UFC, they have to high of standards, but PRide doesnt mind if he is on crack and fighting in bushido 7 and jumps out of the ring

    Also rampage jackson was from KOTC. They have pride officials scouring the world to get good fighters.

    The problem is, that pride had to get most americans that were washed up, or ones in the small shows, as UFC wasnt sending anyone over.

    Only until today do we see some top fighters from the UFC fighting in pride (liddel just because he loves to fight everyone, Yves because there is no light weight division in the UFC and the competition in light weight is in pride) Barnett was fighting with managment... pedro rizzo hasnt fought in how many years? And you hold his loss like its UFC against pride

    Pride beat up a washed up bum in Rizzo.

    Liddell did okay, but he gassed out. He is at the top of his game but I still dont think he is the best in the UFC. I would consider, Couture has a better chance winning in pride than liddlel does. Same with tito.

    Belfort is at a low point in his game... thats why hes in pride

    The two fighters i respect most in pride are obviously Fedor... and Ninja... oh and you can never count out the nogeuria bros, but in the octagon, they would get squished up against the fence and ground and pounded

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    Wrong, most fighters would want to compete in Pride for more money. Franklin made a measly 26,000 for his last fight. No wonder Mir who is UFC HW champion has to work as a bouncer in his 2nd job and broke his leg when he had a motorcycle accident coming back home at night.
    Well that may be true about franklin... but ask him how much he makes from his sponsors Also all the money he is making from the TUF series and getting much more known.

    I talked to him when he was in my area, at KOTC and he sounded pretty happy about the cash he was making

    I offered to do his website for free, but he has a lineup of sponsors.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    And Mir is not strong. He gassed against Simms and Freeman.
    yeah now that i agree with. I personally think mirs ground game is top level, but he gasses all the time. Now being out for so long, I am sure after he loses to orlovski, he will be heading to pride heheh

    the game is different since he was doing well

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    Why didn't you mention Shogun who won the GP, Overeem who beat Belfort and Vov and Arona who beat Silva?
    Pride has 8 great MW.
    Forrest and Bonnar are TUF noobs who will be overmatched against any top-15.
    The only good UFC LHWs are Tito, Belfort, Liddell, Couture, Sobral. There are no 'many more'.
    i actually did... I call shogun... NINJA

    i dont feel overeem is top level yet... and neither is belofort.

    Arona... i feel he got lucky against silva. I think when they rematch, it will be a win for vanderlie.

    I dont like arona, he is too much ground and I dont think he is well rounded. He is nothing like vanderlie who I consider even though he lost to arona, to be top level.

    Arona wouldnt last 10 minutes in the octagon. He would get squisehd up against the cage.

    I would love to see silva back in the octagon.


    Here is a question.

    Lets say.. silva is going to fight the top level UFC LHW for the titles.

    Where should it be held? one in ufc one in pride? If its a tie, then more? How should it be done? I dont think it will happen anytime soon. UFC nor PRIDE want to prove that they are less than the rest.

    UFC was stupid to send over Liddlel, and i thought pride was brilliant how they did it.

    UFC said, lets swap top level fighters, Pride said okay.

    Pride took liddell first, and offered sakurabia!!! Liddell lost in pride and Sakky didnt get to come

    Then pride used this many times to try to show they were better. I think that was an excellent marketing technique.



    anyways... good talking to you
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghpink6
    Why do you guys always nit pick so much? Its so silly, its like your 15 year old kids.

    When I say new techniques, do you think Royce gracies technique was new when he fought in UFC 1? No.

    If you think about it, they had been fighting and beating up guys in brazil for more then a half a century before UFC came on the scene.

    Was Gracies technique new to everyone who was fighting?
    YES. Most people had no clue how to fight on the ground and the Gracies introduced a ground game when most would tried to stand up.

    Why nit pick and lets look to adding to some convo instead of trying to mock someone or trying to appear as if you are superior
    I'm not nit picking. I just get tired of people claiming that they've developed a new technique when they haven't. If that is not what you meant then make your statements a little clearer and we won't have this problem.
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    First you have to learn to get your point across in a concise manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghpink6
    .........
    Well for starters UFC was here in 1991 and brought the ground game, which revolutionised and created mixed martial arts.

    When they decided to host UFC and show the world who is better, they made MMA was it is today. No longer could anyone in the martial arts train in one field. They had to cross train.

    That is something the UFC brought.
    ..........
    1. UFC did not introduce any new techniques. NONE.
    Are you changing your tune? You said - 'calibre of the fighters [in UFC] is alot higher', 'most of the newest techniques come out of UFC' and 'UFC has better technique'. All of which are false statements.

    UFC did not invent anything. Modern MMA started independently a little earlier in Japan under Pancrase which was long before Pride. And if you really want to get to the bottom of it, the evolution of Japanese pro-wrestling promotions hatched Pancrase. Pancrase was more advanced because cross-training was already a trait from day 1 instead of the bumbling hobos in early UFCs.

    Well I said... alot of fighters that couldnt stay in UFC are in pride... I should have said this differently.

    I in no way am saying the bulk of pride is washed up fighters. Thats ridiculous....

    But what I was saying is this.

    Most fighters from the UFC, only go to Pride because UFC wont pay them anymore because they werent producing. Whereas pride is loyal to their fighters, UFC is cutthroat.

    Gary goodridge is a good example. He did great in the UFC but coulndt maintain, and he counldnt get another match. So he went to pride and was welcomed with open arms.

    Mark coleman is another one. He was considered washed up in the UFC as he lost too many times at the end, and he went to pride and was given tons of fights.

    Shamrock, Don Frye, pedro rizzo, marco ruas, bustamante, josh barnett (he fought with management), mario sperry, royce gracie (the whole gracie clan left UFC because matches had time limits, rounds and were stood up, to keep the USA fan interested), dan henderson, yuki kondo, vanderlie silva, vitor belofort, and many more all got their start in the big show, at UFC. But they couldnt dominate with the constant high competition. They didnt keep getting the fights from the UFC so they went to other organizations that were nicer.
    ........
    2. Pride does not have washed-up UFC fighters.
    Coleman should have got the decision in his last UFC against Rizzo. And he was by no mean washed up at that point. Kerr was a top UFC HW who left so it wasn't only recently that top guys in UFc left.

    Shamrock and Kondo got their big break in Pancrase. Saying they got their start in UFC is totally clueless. Shamrock first came to UFC as a Japanese and Pancrase rep with his Japanese flag and nippon red trunks.

    If Belfort is at a low point, then it shouldn't have taken Tito so much trouble and only by split-decision to beat him. Belfort could have won just as easy. Tito is about the same level as Vitor.

    What a ridiculous statement about Bennet. If he is constantly in jail and a drug user he wouldn't have gotten a Japanese visa in the first place. If anything Pride has generally higher standards to keep out the riff-raff. UFC generally panders to the lowest common denominator and you get the crappiest fighters even by KOTC standards nowadays.

    And I still haven't forgot your ridiculous statement about the 'tons of Japanese fighters' coming to UFC.

    Well that may be true about franklin... but ask him how much he makes from his sponsors Also all the money he is making from the TUF series and getting much more known.
    I talked to him when he was in my area, at KOTC and he sounded pretty happy about the cash he was making
    I offered to do his website for free, but he has a lineup of sponsors.
    3. Pride is considered the better organisation.
    So what? UFC is still considered a lower class organisation with poorer pay and subpar competition. Some fighters like Randleman have left UFC because UFC cheated out of money.

    i actually did... I call shogun... NINJA

    i dont feel overeem is top level yet... and neither is belofort.

    Arona... i feel he got lucky against silva. I think when they rematch, it will be a win for vanderlie.

    I dont like arona, he is too much ground and I dont think he is well rounded. He is nothing like vanderlie who I consider even though he lost to arona, to be top level.
    Arona wouldnt last 10 minutes in the octagon. He would get squisehd up against the cage.
    4. Pride still wins the LHW by a LANDSLIDE.
    What a totally clueless statement about Arona being squished in the cage. Have you seen Arona fight? He is not a guard puller. He has very good wrestling skills and fights from the top. The cage would work for him bigtime.

    Overeem beat Vovchanchin and Belfort who are top fighters and he was schooling Liddell before the big punch came.

    Here is a question.
    Lets say.. silva is going to fight the top level UFC LHW for the titles.
    Where should it be held? one in ufc one in pride? If its a tie, then more? How should it be done? I dont think it will happen anytime soon. UFC nor PRIDE want to prove that they are less than the rest.

    UFC was stupid to send over Liddlel, and i thought pride was brilliant how they did it. UFC said, lets swap top level fighters, Pride said okay.
    Pride took liddell first, and offered sakurabia!!! Liddell lost in pride and Sakky didnt get to come
    Then pride used this many times to try to show they were better. I think that was an excellent marketing technique.
    Pride offered Kharitonov and Murilo Rua to UFC recently but got refused by Zuffa or UFC fighters refused to fight them.

    I don't care about unifying titles at LHW when Pride is so much better and UFC is generally crap nowadays. The card for UFC57 makes me want to throw up in my mouth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    First you have to learn to get your point across in a concise manner.



    1. UFC did not introduce any new techniques. NONE.
    Are you changing your tune? You said - 'calibre of the fighters [in UFC] is alot higher', 'most of the newest techniques come out of UFC' and 'UFC has better technique'. All of which are false statements.

    UFC did not invent anything. Modern MMA started independently a little earlier in Japan under Pancrase which was long before Pride. And if you really want to get to the bottom of it, the evolution of Japanese pro-wrestling promotions hatched Pancrase. Pancrase was more advanced because cross-training was already a trait from day 1 instead of the bumbling hobos in early UFCs.



    2. Pride does not have washed-up UFC fighters.
    Coleman should have got the decision in his last UFC against Rizzo. And he was by no mean washed up at that point. Kerr was a top UFC HW who left so it wasn't only recently that top guys in UFc left.

    Shamrock and Kondo got their big break in Pancrase. Saying they got their start in UFC is totally clueless. Shamrock first came to UFC as a Japanese and Pancrase rep with his Japanese flag and nippon red trunks.

    If Belfort is at a low point, then it shouldn't have taken Tito so much trouble and only by split-decision to beat him. Belfort could have won just as easy. Tito is about the same level as Vitor.

    What a ridiculous statement about Bennet. If he is constantly in jail and a drug user he wouldn't have gotten a Japanese visa in the first place. If anything Pride has generally higher standards to keep out the riff-raff. UFC generally panders to the lowest common denominator and you get the crappiest fighters even by KOTC standards nowadays.

    And I still haven't forgot your ridiculous statement about the 'tons of Japanese fighters' coming to UFC.



    3. Pride is considered the better organisation.
    So what? UFC is still considered a lower class organisation with poorer pay and subpar competition. Some fighters like Randleman have left UFC because UFC cheated out of money.



    4. Pride still wins the LHW by a LANDSLIDE.
    What a totally clueless statement about Arona being squished in the cage. Have you seen Arona fight? He is not a guard puller. He has very good wrestling skills and fights from the top. The cage would work for him bigtime.

    Overeem beat Vovchanchin and Belfort who are top fighters and he was schooling Liddell before the big punch came.



    Pride offered Kharitonov and Murilo Rua to UFC recently but got refused by Zuffa or UFC fighters refused to fight them.

    I don't care about unifying titles at LHW when Pride is so much better and UFC is generally crap nowadays. The card for UFC57 makes me want to throw up in my mouth.
    You are clueless... and too jaded. I would like to know what type of experience you have in the cage.

    I thought I could have an intelligent conversation here. My mistake.


    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    Shamrock and Kondo got their big break in Pancrase. Saying they got their start in UFC is totally clueless. Shamrock first came to UFC as a Japanese and Pancrase rep with his Japanese flag and nippon red trunks.
    yeah your right marcus... Pancrase made shamrock famous all over the world even in USA where everyone knows about pancrase. You pinned that one on the head

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    Pride. And if you really want to get to the bottom of it, the evolution of Japanese pro-wrestling promotions hatched Pancrase. Pancrase was more advanced because cross-training was already a trait from day 1 instead of the bumbling hobos in early UFCs.
    yeah your right marcus... pancrase started the gracie ground war, and people to start cross training ... expecially in the usa... you pinned that one on the head too marcus


    you said..
    And I still haven't forgot your ridiculous statement about the 'tons of Japanese fighters' coming to UFC.

    I wont bother listing all the names.. you are clueless and you are too biast.

    I like both pride, ufc and others. Its obvious to see you are too biast to have a normal convo with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghpink6
    You are clueless... and too jaded. I would like to know what type of experience you have in the cage.

    I thought I could have an intelligent conversation here. My mistake.
    Too clueless? You must be talking about yourself.
    since you have no answer to points 1-5

    Someone who says Pride MW is non-existant only with Filho, yushin okami, rodrigo gracie is either trolling or plain clueless.
    Where is Hendo, Filho, Lister, Gono, Semenov, Suloev, Kang, Chonan.

    yeah your right marcus... Pancrase made shamrock famous all over the world even in USA where everyone knows about pancrase. You pinned that one on the head
    This was a thread about a Pride-UFC comparison, not about who taught USA what.
    Yes UFC gave Shamrock some notoriety in US but Shamrock was also quite well known in Japan before UFC anyway in Pancrase and UWF.

    yeah your right marcus... pancrase started the gracie ground war, and people to start cross training ... expecially in the usa... you pinned that one on the head too marcus
    Well pink, again this is a thread about UFC-Pride and you implied that UFC 'taught' Pride on how to compete which is nonsense.
    At least in Pancrase almost every competitor know how to fight on the ground from day 1.

    I wont bother listing all the names.. you are clueless and you are too biast.
    Yeah because there are only 3 names of note after 13 years- Uno, Kondo and Sudo. All of whom came from Shooto, Pancrase and Rings.

    I like both pride, ufc and others. Its obvious to see you are too biast to have a normal convo with.
    You should learn choose your words properly. It will be helpful after school and later in life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    Quote:
    I like both pride, ufc and others. Its obvious to see you are too biast to have a normal convo with.


    You should learn choose your words properly. It will be helpful after school and later in life.
    Yes I will learn to choose my words wisely. Expecially around anal idiots who sit on the computer all day.

    Or maybe I will not bother to reply to the anal idiots, who have a limited intelligence and are totally biased.

    The only reason I have to choose my words with you, is because you want to argue about semantics and not talk about MMA. Its obvious you have no experience acutally fighting and you'r an armchair quarterback.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG

    Yeah because there are only 3 names of note after 13 years- Uno, Kondo and Sudo. All of whom came from Shooto, Pancrase and Rings.
    You continually show your stupidity and shortsidedness. I am not even sure if you watch pride closes, because some from pride have fought in the UFC as well.

    Ever hear of a guy called TK? Tsuyoshi Kohsaka

    He actually won over a guy name Fedor Emilienko (you ever hear of fedor? They just rematched and fedor cleaned his record up. TK was in the UFC

    -----------------------------------
    Here is a short list of more Japanese figthters that recently fought in UFC - all i can say for you is you are clueless and biased (two things that dont go well together

    Keigo Kunihara -UFC 55
    Koji Oishi - 53 - remember this was the idiot that came from shooto and thought he could block punches with both hands.
    Jutaro Nakao
    Daiju Takase

    Hayato "Mach" Sakurai - maybe you have seen this guy in prides bushido.. 2 4 5 7 and 9 (you dont think sakurai is good? clueless)

    Enson "Yamato Damashi" Inoue

    You saying Enson is not good??

    -------------------------------

    REMEMBER UFC JAPAN? I bet you were not old enough to watch it at the time.
    Yoji "Mr. 200%" Anjo
    Kazushi Sakuraba - ever hear of this guy. he fought in the UFC japan (two times)

    I can see you obviously think Kazushi isnt good.

    Obviously you dont think any of those list of japanese fighters are very good or your just stupid and biased. Its one of the two.
    --------------------------------------------

    I personally like more knockouts, more submissions and less draws - quicker matches with a concrete decision. Here are some stats for you and why I think the UFC is better.

    Ultimate Fighting Championships

    Finishing Method Statistics
    Total Matches = 528
    Percentage Submission = 34.47
    Percentage KO/TKO = 40.53
    Percentage Decision = 22.35
    Other (Drawn, NCs, or Unknown) = 2.65

    PRIDE Fighting Championships

    Finishing Method Statistics
    Total Matches = 458
    Percentage Submission = 29.48
    Percentage KO/TKO = 35.59
    Percentage Decision = 31.22
    Other (Drawn, NCs, or Unknown) = 3.71

    So with a close amount of fight each organization put on, UFC delivers a better percentage of knockouts, more subbmions, less decisions, and less draws...

    ALSO ... in the non decision fights... its the same.

    UFC
    ENDING ROUND FIGHTS
    1 300
    2 64
    3 29
    4 5
    5 1


    PRIDE
    LENGTH OF NON DECISION FIGHTS
    ENDING ROUND FIGHTS
    1 244
    2 42
    3 15
    6 2

    You can clearly see, that even though prides first round is 10 minutes long, and UFC is only 5... the fights in the UFC end more quickly in the first round, than they do in pride, which for me, makes them more exciting.

    Seriously ... I thought I could have a convo with someone that is knowledgeable and not too biased. I understand that we are all here to talk and some to argue, but stop being so anal.
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    Amen to that!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
    Chill, guys.

    You're covering good ground here. Disagree without being so disagreeable.
    fair enough... i do get angry with people who i think are biased but yet dont point out the facts.

    I personally like both organizations alot. Its hard to pick between the two in my mind.

    i will be nice
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    Fair enough. I missed alot of Japanese names but the fact remains that recently there are hardly any Japanese competitors coming over in recent years. Oishi and Kunihara are just above can level. UFC never promoted Sudo properly when he around anyway. Some of Sudo's exciting fights were dark matches and not always shown. His match with Mike Brown showed a totally empty venue in camera shots since his match was one of the earliest ones on the card.

    Drawing conclusions from fight endings don't tell the whole story. You can have tons of stoppages but the level of competition may be very poor and not worth watching like toughman events. UFC has consistently put out bad events filled with no-names and mis-matches for the past year, whether or not the matches go to the decision or ippon does not make it better. Perhaps for TUF noobs, seeing wild flailing is very good entertainment and excellent fighting.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghpink6
    fair enough... i do get angry with people who i think are biased but yet dont point out the facts.

    I personally like both organizations alot. Its hard to pick between the two in my mind.

    i will be nice
    Yes you get overly emotional and start using terms like idiot when you get exposed and cannot answer my points intelligently.

    I'm hardly biased and actually prefer the UFC of old a bit more when they had good champions and good competitive cards. But the fact of the matter is Pride simply blows away the UFC at this point.

    Take a look at the upcoming UFC57 card. It is just as bad if not worse as the previous UFC cards for the past year. The only good fight being the rematch between Liddell and Couture.

    The only prudent thing to do is give UFC a pass and save your dollars for the excellent Pride NYE event.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    Fair enough. I missed alot of Japanese names but the fact remains that recently there are hardly any Japanese competitors coming over in recent years. Oishi and Kunihara are just above can level. UFC never promoted Sudo properly when he around anyway. Some of Sudo's exciting fights were dark matches and not always shown. His match with Mike Brown showed a totally empty venue in camera shots since his match was one of the earliest ones on the card.

    Drawing conclusions from fight endings don't tell the whole story. You can have tons of stoppages but the level of competition may be very poor and not worth watching like toughman events. UFC has consistently put out bad events filled with no-names and mis-matches for the past year, whether or not the matches go to the decision or ippon does not make it better. Perhaps for TUF noobs, seeing wild flailing is very good entertainment and excellent fighting.



    Yes you get overly emotional and start using terms like idiot when you get exposed and cannot answer my points intelligently.

    I'm hardly biased and actually prefer the UFC of old a bit more when they had good champions and good competitive cards. But the fact of the matter is Pride simply blows away the UFC at this point.

    Take a look at the upcoming UFC57 card. It is just as bad if not worse as the previous UFC cards for the past year. The only good fight being the rematch between Liddell and Couture.

    The only prudent thing to do is give UFC a pass and save your dollars for the excellent Pride NYE event.
    I can answer your points intelligently, but you can't read sometimes. You are either skimming over what I say, or you just dont read it. That is why I was calling you idiot.

    The first message you sent, I made a point that you cannot compare "this guy 1 beats guy 2, guy 2 beats guy 3, so guy 1 can beat 3.

    You cant do that, and then you make a reply basically saying "why not look at wanderlie now... what do you expect dude.. read...


    Also about the UFC...
    im just not feeling ya

    With the addition of BJ penn. He got the boot from the UFC after he won over matt hughes (he finally made hughes lose his 5 time title defense) He was fighting with Dana white, and now they let him back in....... they will probably match up ...

    georges st pierre
    bj penn
    matt hughes

    in some type of matches, I cant wait!!

    Also with tito being kicked out of the UFC and now be allowed to re-enter... he said he was the reason why UFC became successful and wanted more cash for matches. He got the boot.

    He claimed he would start his own organization and now not only is he back in the UFC, but he is a coach on TUF with ken shamrock, someone who hates him with a passion and tito and dana white were fighting constantly.

    This should be a great series, that leads up to a rematch with ken shamrock vs tito.

    Then there is Couture and liddell 3 and frank mir is going to get beat up by andrei orlovski!!

    In my eyes, its the most exciting time in UFC
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghpink6
    I can answer your points intelligently, but you can't read sometimes. You are either skimming over what I say, or you just dont read it. That is why I was calling you idiot.

    The first message you sent, I made a point that you cannot compare "this guy 1 beats guy 2, guy 2 beats guy 3, so guy 1 can beat 3.
    You cant do that, and then you make a reply basically saying "why not look at wanderlie now... what do you expect dude.. read...
    Also about the UFC...
    im just not feeling ya

    With the addition of BJ penn. He got the boot from the UFC after he won over matt hughes (he finally made hughes lose his 5 time title defense) He was fighting with Dana white, and now they let him back in....... they will probably match up ...
    georges st pierre
    bj penn
    matt hughes

    in some type of matches, I cant wait!!
    Also with tito being kicked out of the UFC and now be allowed to re-enter... he said he was the reason why UFC became successful and wanted more cash for matches. He got the boot.
    .......
    This should be a great series, that leads up to a rematch with ken shamrock vs tito.

    Then there is Couture and liddell 3 and frank mir is going to get beat up by andrei orlovski!!

    In my eyes, its the most exciting time in UFC
    Well you can't read also. I never skimmed though and made my points succinctly.
    Didn't you made these statements:-
    "UFC has by far the better fighters than Pride"
    "most of all moves and techniques are developed, its in the UFC"
    "UFC has better technique"
    Yes, Belfort and Tito beating but Wandy has obviously improved so much in Pride even competing with Crocop and Hunt. And besides Rampage KOed Liddell more recently.

    Tito was right about making UFC famous. Even Dana was forced to take him back.

    BJ Penn and Tito cannot automatically transform UFC and make it good. The card for UFC57 is total crap with just one good main event. UFC has gone the way of boxing with lackluster and boring undercards. I suppose this business model is more profitable.

    The comparison imo is pointless. Pride simply has the better higher quality fighters and putting out better events nowadays.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    Well you can't read also. I never skimmed though and made my points succinctly.
    Didn't you made these statements:-
    "UFC has by far the better fighters than Pride"
    "most of all moves and techniques are developed, its in the UFC"
    "UFC has better technique"
    Yes, Belfort and Tito beating but Wandy has obviously improved so much in Pride even competing with Crocop and Hunt. And besides Rampage KOed Liddell more recently.

    Tito was right about making UFC famous. Even Dana was forced to take him back.

    BJ Penn and Tito cannot automatically transform UFC and make it good. The card for UFC57 is total crap with just one good main event. UFC has gone the way of boxing with lackluster and boring undercards. I suppose this business model is more profitable.

    The comparison imo is pointless. Pride simply has the better higher quality fighters and putting out better events nowadays.
    sigh ... clueless Yes this is pointless talking with you. I agree
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    If its so pointless why do you keep responding?

    Nearly everyone here would agree that Pride has the better fighters and put on the more entertaining event by far.
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    Didn't feel like reading through 4 pages of posts so I apologize if this has been said already. There needs to be a UFC vs. Pride ppv. I think UFC would take it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blahblah192
    Didn't feel like reading through 4 pages of posts so I apologize if this has been said already. There needs to be a UFC vs. Pride ppv. I think UFC would take it.
    That would make a great Bushido
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    who's renting pride tommorow? I know I am.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blahblah192
    Didn't feel like reading through 4 pages of posts so I apologize if this has been said already. There needs to be a UFC vs. Pride ppv. I think UFC would take it.

    The rules of each are different. It's hard for the fighters to switch back and forth.

    Personally, I love all MMA events. They all have their pros and cons with respect to rules. I agree that this year will be very exciting for UFC. The reality show should be especially entertaining. All fighters at that level have my respect (personalities aside) for their talents.

    One thing that I can say for UFC is that they are bringing MMA to the general public. Having free fights and the reality series was a great marketing strategy for their organization. I just hope that it doesn't backfire in the media.
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    For me, Pride > UFC
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    I got a big kick out of Fedor's fight Vs the 340lbs Zulu guy. He had no business being in that ring.

    I was really dissapointed to see Mark Hunt beat Cro-Cop. I think Cro-Cop needs to learn to wear away at his opponent instead of looking for the KO all match. I must say I was impressed that Hunt took some of those blows without hitting the mat though.

    Silvia vs Arona was a good match, I'm kind of glad Silvia won after the way Arona acted during the last match. I'm not a huge fan of Arona's defensive style - I was glad to see Silvia come out full of piss and vinegar.
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    Silvia vs Arona was a good match, I'm kind of glad Silvia won after the way Arona acted during the last match. I'm not a huge fan of Arona's defensive style - I was glad to see Silvia come out full of piss and vinegar.
    Brazilians take that team rivelry thing hardcore. Chute Boxe and BTT are always going at it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
    I'm gonna pray that you're kidding. The scary thing is some people actually believe that. These same people also believe that Cris Angel 'MINDFREEK' is actually levetating people.
    ok first there is a reason some people think that of bruce and dont ever compare him to some magic trick guy? Do your research on bruce on how he could bench 300 or more weighing 135. (bruces actual fight history) im a huge fan of ufc but when u compare alot of how fast those fighters punch to bruce they wouldnt have time touch him.
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    Arlovski has some great boxing & all, but he gets knocked out by a strong wind these days.

    I think Pride did have a better production, more epic intro's and great match ups. Their female announcer who sounded like the female German side kick to Dr. Evil in the Austin Powers movies was sick too. Pride certainly has an unforgettable legacy of reputed fighters. However,....

    I'd always sided with Pride until recently. I think Pride's hay-day of open weight fighters outclass the UFC's HW's in terms of technical talent, but when considering all the other elements of freakish size, weight, strength and athleticism (along with the talent) of the UFC HW's, I think the UFC HW elite's are more effective fighters.

    I personally have a biased toward the big boys, so I'm heavily swayed by the interest in the HW/Open weight fighters. Even still, I'm not sure the other divisions in Pride could have handle today's caliber of American wrestling possessed by the lot of the UFC talent.

    Lastly, Bob Sapp cried when Mirko punched him in the face, so I don't consider Sapp any form of threat to a Brock, Cain, JDS or Carwin. He was all size & strength and 0% talent and has several losses to guys half his size. He is quite literally, like a turtle on his back and most of his TKO's looked more like the fighter tapping out in fear, as oppose to damage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalord44 View Post
    ok first there is a reason some people think that of bruce and dont ever compare him to some magic trick guy? Do your research on bruce on how he could bench 300 or more weighing 135. (bruces actual fight history) im a huge fan of ufc but when u compare alot of how fast those fighters punch to bruce they wouldnt have time touch him.
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    UFC 121



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    this thread is soooooooo oldddddddddddddddddddddddddddd dddddddddddddd
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