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Best way to condition for kickboxing

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    Best way to condition for kickboxing


    I was wondering what someone did for conditioning?
    I found something i enjoy and want to focus on becoming better.

    I was lifting 5days a week with a heavy-bag workout in morning(fasted)for 45min.
    Well i switched to drinking a protein shake before hand and seems to be helping fatigue afterwards and leaning me out more.Getting ready to throw some carbs in the mix(fruit,cereal,on that line,honey)
    I also changed my lifting to more olympic exc. (power cleans,snatchs,)and taking wed off.

    Planning on doing some more sprints(hills)and box-jumps to end my lifting session.
    Doing heavy bag on mon,wed,fri for 45min and tue,thur light bag to warm up and a routine of 25 push-ups,50 sit-ups 4x then 20 jump squats,50 crunchs 4x

    Any help would be great and some diet help would be helpful.

    33,10.5%b/f 180lb 5'11" eating 3200cals now with fatigue during day and losing lb/fat(some bulking diet)

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    1. Lift like an athlete and not a BB'er (no athlete lifts 5x/week)
    2. Run hill sprints or buy a Prowler
    3. Do your cardio/conditioning with your mouthpiece in (seriously)
    4. Do more rounds of kickboxing
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    I figuered it out about the lifting.I was doing a b/b lifting plan.
    So i switched(going to tomorrow)with olympic stuff like i said.
    First i'd like to thank you for your time!!!

    At least im not eating like a b/b.350g carbs,200-220pro,120g fat(all healthy)
    My rounds are getting alot better,mixing it up i go 5min.a couple x's then 3min. for around 20min then i slow to 1-2min(was doing this with only x-tend)then swithed to whey before with purple pyshco during.

    Tomorrow doing the whey thinking about a tsb.of honey for more energy.My heart rate stays around 80-85% for 45min.
    I've been doing 1hr and 45 min. on sat and going to this on wed.also
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    What would you recommend for me to do for my morning training as for energy?Whey&honey work?Was told yougurt+fruit too.
    I plan on lifting in eve but cut down alot on what i was doing.With more focus on the sprints(live in country plenty of hills nearby)and box-jumps super-setting them together and doing sled drags sometime during week.

    Im i atleast on the right track?

    Not lifting 5x's also.
    Ialso been swimming on sat mornings too.
    Don't know if it matters but i get up at 5am and don't eat breakfast until 7:30
    When i did eat after heavy-bag with just x-tend my body seemed to shut down after?Not as bad with the whey now.But do get some fatigue after breakfast still.Mondays are good rest of the week not so hot as sunday only day i rest.Think the lifting has alot to do with it and not eating enough to keep up.
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    I'd go with whey and fruit during training and BCAA during.
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    Thanks again friend.
    Going to do 45min heavy-bag in morning with a shake and an orange.
    I eat an apple with breakfast and mid-morning 1/2c blueberries and 1 1/2 bananna pre/post weights.So the orange was only thing i could come up with.

    Are you a fighter?
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    I was actively fighting for 3 years. Unfortunately, life has interfered and I haven't had a fight in almost 2 years (FYI, that's me in the avi).
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    Hey things happen in life.Take the good with the bad.Bad things make the good even better!

    Thank you Mr.Rodja!
    Think i found out why im not recovering from lifting workouts i've been taking every set to failure compound,iso,everytime i lift.Going to save one on last set and only take iso ones to failure(lat raises,curls,ect..)
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    If I was conditioning for fighting I would go into the forest and kick my shins, feet against trees, punch, elbow bark etc. As well as punching my own face to toughen it.

    Also change the focus to core, Bruce lee said something like if you don't have a really solid core you shouldn't be fighting.
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    Been in enough wrecks so pretty tough on that part.
    Core is in pretty good shape too.

    Just started doing olypic lifts so that should help.
    Plus i was born with an extra muscle that runs down middle of my abs(extra)
    docs thought i had a hernia at birth.Probely why i can crunch so much weight.
    Just freaky looking though when i suck it in.But in a cool way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by protoculture View Post
    If I was conditioning for fighting I would go into the forest and kick my shins, feet against trees, punch, elbow bark etc. As well as punching my own face to toughen it.

    Also change the focus to core, Bruce lee said something like if you don't have a really solid core you shouldn't be fighting.
    lmao repped, made me laugh. It REALLY depends on you, I know some people who live in the gym, hell me training light was 500 roundhouses each leg then 500 push kicks each leg and that was the warmup.

    But as for what rhodja said yeah you really cant lift heavy every day. Personally i always skipped traps just because it would kill me keeping my hands up, and id lose flexibility easily.
    "No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." - Socrates
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    Yeah i dropped alot of exercises that i was doing.
    I was doing a mass b/b routine.
    Now i do little iso.sets and more olympic lifts with a drop set style(8,7,6,6)and not going to or trying not to go to failier on each set,and doing cardio sorta of when done.
    Like yesturday morning i did heavy bag for 45min. then lifted that eve.took around 50min but kept rest to 60sec or less and jogged down my road to a steep hill (40-50yrds on a back road)around 3/4mile away and sprinted up it 10 or 11x and jogged home.

    This morning i jumped rope for 5min(i suck at it)did 5min shadow boxing followed by 20min heavy-bag then did 25 push-ups slow down fast up,25 twisting sit-ups 4x took a min. breather and finished with 20 jump squats into 50 crunchs 4x
    First time i really saw my abs!!

    Use to have a hard time doing jump squats but doing them today i was shocked how easy they went time for somemore weight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    1. Lift like an athlete and not a BB'er (no athlete lifts 5x/week)
    2. Run hill sprints or buy a Prowler
    3. Do your cardio/conditioning with your mouthpiece in (seriously)
    4. Do more rounds of kickboxing
    He hit the nail on the head. Great advice.
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    Build up your shins by kicking trees, it worked for Jean Claude Van Dam
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    Quote Originally Posted by tubbednova View Post
    Yeah i dropped alot of exercises that i was doing.
    I was doing a mass b/b routine.
    Now i do little iso.sets and more olympic lifts with a drop set style(8,7,6,6)and not going to or trying not to go to failier on each set,and doing cardio sorta of when done.
    Like yesturday morning i did heavy bag for 45min. then lifted that eve.took around 50min but kept rest to 60sec or less and jogged down my road to a steep hill (40-50yrds on a back road)around 3/4mile away and sprinted up it 10 or 11x and jogged home.

    This morning i jumped rope for 5min(i suck at it)did 5min shadow boxing followed by 20min heavy-bag then did 25 push-ups slow down fast up,25 twisting sit-ups 4x took a min. breather and finished with 20 jump squats into 50 crunchs 4x
    First time i really saw my abs!!

    Use to have a hard time doing jump squats but doing them today i was shocked how easy they went time for somemore weight.
    Get in 20 miles a week at least, and work on the abs A LOT more.
    "No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." - Socrates
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    I really don't know how many miles but im doing hill sptints and reg sprints 2x aweek and the hill sprints are around my home so i run there(jog back big hill)
    doing sled drags once a week with a 20min run after.
    Going to do prowler friday so im getting miles in
    I also do box-jumps on reg sprint runs.
    Been doing that morning thing to 3x week.tue,wed,thur
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    Quote Originally Posted by tubbednova View Post
    I really don't know how many miles but im doing hill sptints and reg sprints 2x aweek and the hill sprints are around my home so i run there(jog back big hill)
    doing sled drags once a week with a 20min run after.
    Going to do prowler friday so im getting miles in
    I also do box-jumps on reg sprint runs.
    Been doing that morning thing to 3x week.tue,wed,thur
    Nice nice, we all have to start somewhere so just keep at it bro. Good luck in your future endeavors, I hope you kick ass.
    "No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." - Socrates
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    Got a ? guys.
    Should i be eating more carbs or fat to fuel my training?
    Thinking my breakfast with the eggs and walnuts could be slowing the carbs to much it is my post morning meal more or less.

    My diet is 3300cals with a ratio around 220g pro(whey,lean pork)
    350g carbs 55g fiber/55g sugar(milk,yogurt,molasis,vegg ies,fruit)oats,quanioa,wheat pita's
    130g fat milk 1%,2%yougurt,eggs,avocados
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    Was wondering why im finding it harder to throw staight jabs?
    I think mybe my traps are involved to much or need to use torso more.

    Use to go like an anamal with them i am hitting alot harder now and faster(around 7+punchs in 2sec) im guessing thats good feels good.
    After about 15-20sec of all out speed drills im losing it was going for 30sec in start.
    Could i be just giving more effort or just overtrained myself???
    I can throw combos hard all day long (making a point)but run out on jabs.
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    As a sparring partner for a four timeISKA world champ I can tell you INTERVALS!!!!! The ability to turn it on and turn it off is most important. Wind sprints! Explosive weights at max. At 10.5 you need some more fat. I used to love seeing some ones ribs!!!! Its like a bullseye. 2 days a week work endurance. Six miles or better at a steady pace.9 minute miles. Other days quarter miles at a sixty second pace with 100 yd wind sprint. Do this till you can taste the copper in your mouth.(If you have done windsprints you know what I'm talking about) Finally you have to have a rest day. Also too much heavy bag. Power comes from speed! You can get your combinations from shadow boxing or mitts.
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    do you have research to back this up
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    you are in right way.
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    crossfit with yoga 2x a week made my kickboxing really good. i had my vo2 max through the rook while staying flexible for those high kicks.
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    Do treadmill runs :20 on :20 off mimmicking your fight time. For example I fought 3@5:00 so I did a warmup jog of 5 minutes and then set 12% incline and did :20/:20 for 5 minutes with 1 minute rest, just like the fight. I always started around 7-7.5 mph to start and had the goal of finishing the last workout with 8.5, 9.0, and 9.5mph. The incline really makes it a bitch. When I got my sprints up and solid I could really start working the pads hard and when I could work the pads really hard that would mean I could spar very hard. If I was sparring really hard I could run even harder and for me it was kind of cyclical. One made the other better. Sparring is what gets you in fight shape so get in shape so you can spar hard and it all starts tying together.
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    The reason you have to train a million times harder than it is in fight is because your cns takes a massive hit in a fight. Training the same amount of time youre fighting isnt going to work.
    "No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." - Socrates
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    Running stadiums/stair sprints is amazing cardio for combat sports. Bag work as well. Try doing 40 seconds technique, 20 seconds power and repeat as many times as you can.
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    Crossfit workouts are probably the only weight exercises u'll need. It is high interval/explosive workouts. Great for strength and cardio.

    Pyramid high kicks.

    Ok do this 3 times (at LEAST) at one minute intervals. 30 second rests. 10 second in and outs with heavy bag. 10 second explosive hits AS FAST AS YOU CAN. Then 10 seconds in and out and so forth.

    I agree with doing any workout (especially cardio) with ur mouth guard in. Great way to increase lung capacity. Plus it's key to train how u fight.

    Also Core workouts. And NOT just Sit-ups. EVERYTHING you do in fighting involves your core muscles.

    Lastly STRETCH and work on balance. Helps on both jiujitsu and muay Thai fronts. Plus less likely to be injured or be submitted if u are extremely flexible.

    At least 1 gallon of water a day. Also BCAA's are great for helping your body recover.
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    Box jumps will really get your legs kicking. I would incorporate that whenever you can as well as jump rope and squat jumps also
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    crossfit and box jumps are bull****. Sooooo many injury prone movements.
    "No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by oogaly_boogal
    crossfit and box jumps are bull****. Sooooo many injury prone movements.
    U think those are injury prone movements? Then u either are overdoing ur limit or ur not as flexible as u need to be in order to b a fighter. After 10 years of competitive fighting there nothing is going that will put u at higher risk for injury that rolling and sparing (which are essential to training)

    If u want to make it to the ring ur gonna have to out ur body thru some tough s***
    Other than actually fighting... Crossfit is the best for strength. Cardio. And explosive exercises. Since MMA requires u to do all of the above AT THE SAME TIME. If u don't simulate that... U won't make even 3 rounds they have for amateur fighting.

    As for the box jumps. It's not my favorite exercise but If ur not confident on ur balance to do it. Either 1) simply due repetitive jump squats or 2) balance on 1 leg on the 1/2 balance ball to build up ankle/knee strength/stability so u don't have to worry about ur ankle giving in and injuring urself. (I've already been thru 1 torn ankle I not something I'd like to experience again)

    *sry MMA is my passion. I can go on all day about it... So excuse the length of this post.
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    Mma guy for 17 years before it was cool to do and a nasm personal trainer. Box jumps cause you to blow out your achillis tendons. Those swinging chinups cause you to destroy your rotators. Excessive anything is bad for your body. Read up on crossfit induced injuries.
    "No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." - Socrates
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    Ok we can have an arms race but I dont think I need to throw down all my credentials academically, or as fighter & trainer. But I will say am not naive or new at this either. I mentioned how long I have been fighting simply to say that of all the fads or simply diff types of workouts I've come across... High intensity Circuit style training has been the best to get me in shape as a fighter.

    Do intense workouts cause strain on ur body... Potential injuries... Wear and tear... Yes! Especially when overdone and incorrectly. Do I agree with EVERY workout use in crossfit, muay Thai or jiu-jitsu training. No. But overall I think it is a great way to train urself. But ppl have to stretch (flexibility is taken for granted way too often) and kno their limits. Ppl often down know difference between simply pushing themselves and overdoing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oogaly_boogal
    Mma guy for 17 years before it was cool to do and a nasm personal trainer. Box jumps cause you to blow out your achillis tendons. Those swinging chinups cause you to destroy your rotators. Excessive anything is bad for your body. Read up on crossfit induced injuries.
    Sry if I came off as an a** talking down to u. I just was trying to put my 2 cents in about good training. But yes I also agree with u about injuries. Certain exercises are not the best. But I don't come up with them all. I am simply speaking on behalf of high intensity circuit training.

    Btw if u have other workouts that u think are better I'm always open for new stuff I haven't come across yet. As I said... This is probably my one n only passion in life. (I kno kinda sad)
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    Quote Originally Posted by JesstheIbex View Post
    U think those are injury prone movements?
    Yes crossfit is

    Quote Originally Posted by JesstheIbex View Post
    Other than actually fighting... Crossfit is the best for strength.
    Nope it isnt

    russian conjugate periodization > crossfit for any athlete really, not just MMA
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh

    Yes crossfit is

    Nope it isnt

    russian conjugate periodization > crossfit for any athlete really, not just MMA
    Ive read about that actually. Haven't tried it myself yet. Maybe I will as for crossfit. I agree. Is not just for MMA ppl.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JesstheIbex View Post
    Ive read about that actually. Haven't tried it myself yet. Maybe I will as for crossfit. I agree. Is not just for MMA ppl.
    You must of misunderstood me.. I wasnt suggesting that crossfit was good for MMA or any other athlete, I was saying conjugate periodization would be FAR better choice over crossfit for any athlete.

    Crossfit itself is overhyped. The only good to come from it is it made lifts like the clean and press popular again and have encouraged people to step away from the single joint machines and more towards barbells, kettlebells, sandbags and other unconventional resistance equipment BUT at the same time crossfit has encouraged horrible form and this idea of using highly technical oly lifts for high reps as a conditioning tool, which does not but re-enforce bad movement patterns (encouraging bad form), is by biggest problem with crossfit. Not to mention this idea that you can make this generalized program for an entire group of people to follow, with no individualization or attention to muscular imbalances.

    Crossfit is not the be all end all it is made out to be, in fact it is very far from it in my opinion
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh

    You must of misunderstood me.. I wasnt suggesting that crossfit was good for MMA or any other athlete, I was saying conjugate periodization would be FAR better choice over crossfit for any athlete.

    Crossfit itself is overhyped. The only good to come from it is it made lifts like the clean and press popular again and have encouraged people to step away from the single joint machines and more towards barbells, kettlebells, sandbags and other unconventional resistance equipment BUT at the same time crossfit has encouraged horrible form and this idea of using highly technical oly lifts for high reps as a conditioning tool, which does not but re-enforce bad movement patterns (encouraging bad form), is by biggest problem with crossfit. Not to mention this idea that you can make this generalized program for an entire group of people to follow, with no individualization or attention to muscular imbalances.

    Crossfit is not the be all end all it is made out to be, in fact it is very far from it in my opinion
    Yes I do agree I see people striving for a better time or more reps in a certain time period that their form is awful and I'm sure they feel it the next couple days at the very least. I've gotten a lot of funny looks from men twice my size when I caution them bc I look at them and am like "he's gonna hurt his back,.." I actually warned a guy doing hang cleans with kettlebells about his form... Only to maybe 3 reps later to see him break his wrist bc since I'm a girl I must not kno what I'm talking about. I kno I'm not perfect. I'm sure there r times my form has suffered when I get tired n to lost last reps... But I appreciate the constructive criticism over the alternative of a potential injury.

    Anyways. I will try out ur recommendation. As I said I'm always open to new workout styles. I've dabbled in a bit of everything (some for just one sessions cuz they really weren't for me,..)
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    Quote Originally Posted by JesstheIbex View Post

    Anyways. I will try out ur recommendation. As I said I'm always open to new workout styles. I've dabbled in a bit of everything (some for just one sessions cuz they really weren't for me,..)
    I am a big fan of Defrancos WS4SB program as a basic outline of what to do.

    and then there is Louie Simmons (weatside barbell) who has written on this

    Or if you want, you can read from the people who pioneered this training system verkhoshansky (supertraining) and zatsiorsky (science and practice of strength training) but I will warn you both of these books are very technical books but the information presented makes them a must read IMO.

    WS4SB is a outstanding program on its own and DeFranco provides you with a pretty good base template to start out with
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    On a coincidental note, I just had an argument with a guy who runs a CF gym and had to explain to him how it creates horrible muscle imbalances due to their prevalence of vertical plane movements. It's pretty established on this board about my hatred of CF and the lack of technique and programming.

    Sports-specific training is as the name implies: specific to the nature of the sport. Their is very little, if anything, about CF that is specific for MMA. When CF starts to implement things like accommodating resistance, conjugate periodization, and properly uses plyometrics, then I might not denounce it so much, but I highly doubt that'll ever happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I am a big fan of Defrancos WS4SB program as a basic outline of what to do.



    and then there is Louie Simmons (weatside barbell) who has written on this

    Or if you want, you can read from the people who pioneered this training system verkhoshansky (supertraining) and zatsiorsky (science and practice of strength training) but I will warn you both of these books are very technical books but the information presented makes them a must read IMO.

    WS4SB is a outstanding program on its own and DeFranco provides you with a pretty good base template to start out with
    Have you read the Siff/Verkhoshansky book? I've been wanting to get it, but it is very pricey.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
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