Strikeforce Heavyweight Tournament

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    this is really cool. just sucks US athletic comission wont allow a one night tourney. then we'd really see whos got the biggest balls haha
    that'd be epic


  2. Quote Originally Posted by jgassen15 View Post
    that'd be epic
    That'd be uber epic
    NSCA - CSCS
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  3. oh the good 'ole days when men could give into all their vices in a single night with no flack from the government

  4. Quote Originally Posted by jgassen15 View Post
    oh the good 'ole days when men could give into all their vices in a single night with no flack from the government
    when knees to the head rained from above and the slapping sound of a soccer kick sent chills down your spine
    BJJ = life

  5. I actually don't like a 1-night format. You end up getting a bad product most of the time due to accumulated damage. Look at all of the Pride GP finals, especially some of the later ones. For example, the last WW GP had a final match of Denis Kang with a torn bicep against Kazuo Misaki who was beaten by Paulo Filho the same night, but was unable to continue due to injury. Basically, a dude loses in the semis and then, by default, gets a spot in the finals.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  6. im about to buy tickets for Fedor/Big Foot. its like an hour away from me and perfect to take my girl on V-day, we both train mma so it works lol

    only thing is the seats are probably gonna be nosebleed, anyone ever sit at the top for a mma fight? is it worth it?
    BJJ = life

  7. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    im about to buy tickets for Fedor/Big Foot. its like an hour away from me and perfect to take my girl on V-day, we both train mma so it works lol

    only thing is the seats are probably gonna be nosebleed, anyone ever sit at the top for a mma fight? is it worth it?
    It depends how the arena is built. Hockey rinks, for example, still give a great view even in the higher seats. Besides, when will you have a chance to see Fedor again?
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  8. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    It depends how the arena is built. Hockey rinks, for example, still give a great view even in the higher seats. Besides, when will you have a chance to see Fedor again?
    dude you are so right, im super excited now!!! hes gonna hit Silva so hard ill get some blood splatter up in my nosebleed seats
    BJJ = life

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I actually don't like a 1-night format. You end up getting a bad product most of the time due to accumulated damage. Look at all of the Pride GP finals, especially some of the later ones. For example, the last WW GP had a final match of Denis Kang with a torn bicep against Kazuo Misaki who was beaten by Paulo Filho the same night, but was unable to continue due to injury. Basically, a dude loses in the semis and then, by default, gets a spot in the finals.
    very true, but having the one night format just makes me feel like it's the karate kid and yelling "put him in a bodybag johnny" is acceptable.. adds to the mystique of the sport.... no but really the product isn't necessarily as quality due to injury, fatigue, etc. but once in a while it's cool to see who can withstand adversity, kind of a testament to a guy's luck/will

  10. Overeem is used to the tourny format so I would say he has the upper hand, but in the fight game anything can happen. I am curious to see how fedor does and if he stays in the tournament. Best of luck to all and should be a great show either way .
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  11. im about to buy my tickets for the Fedor fight right now! F#ck yeah!
    BJJ = life

  12. anyone check out the weigh ins...this should be a good fight card tonight..Arloski didnt look as ripped as he normally does..guess he is trying to keep up weight for more power..they were all very heavy

  13. I want to see Overeem fight Fedor...I honestly feel like Overeem would destroy him, unless he got caught on the ground somehow.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by codered5 View Post
    I want to see Overeem fight Fedor...I honestly feel like Overeem would destroy him, unless he got caught on the ground somehow.
    I don't think anyone is "destroying" Fedor, but I want to see that fight as well and I want to see Overeem come out on top.
    NSCA - CSCS

  15. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    im about to buy my tickets for the Fedor fight right now! F#ck yeah!
    he got his ass beat. real bad. they had to call the fight.


    anybody still wanna say he is the greatest fighter ever?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by VolcomX311 View Post
    I don't think anyone is "destroying" Fedor, but I want to see that fight as well and I want to see Overeem come out on top.
    fedor got destroyed lol

  17. Fedor is busted up! Waiting for the next round of fights......

  18. Quote Originally Posted by bigpapa View Post
    anybody still wanna say he is the greatest fighter ever?
    The fall from the zenith of performance is usually rapid for fighters of every cloth, and Fyodor's appears to be no different. That said, repainting the portraits of past fights because of the ugliness of current ones is both premature and silly.

  19. he's fought bs and hand picked opponents to protect his aura ever since he left PRIDE. he is a good fighter no question, but he isn't as "great" as people claim

  20. Quote Originally Posted by bigpapa View Post
    he's fought bs and hand picked opponents to protect his aura ever since he left PRIDE. he is a good fighter no question, but he isn't as "great" as people claim
    When one's entire experience of Fyodor has been couched within the zenith of Zuffa's reign, that position is, I think, a more prevalent one. That said, it ought to be a quick task demonstrating that even Fyodor's post-2005 opponents were august.

    Whether you care to take note of it or not, both Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski were not only consensus top five heavyweights when Fyodor faced them, but more directly to your point, were the best available options given promotional constraints. Similarly, and again whether you choose to accord it, Brett Rogers was a consensus top ten opponent at the time of their bout.

    Now, based on your tone of thought here, my inclination is that your response is to revise history based on the various permutations each fighter's history has taken since then. Hindsight, as they say, is always 20/20.

    I choose instead to judge fighter based on the quality of their opponents as their opponents were considered at the time - I task that becomes exceedingly difficult when you believe things like, "Fyodor left PRIDE." (Fyodor was under contract to PRIDE FC when it collapsed.)

    Judging the trajectory of Fyodor's career under that rubric, it becomes apparent that his quantum of opponents, even recently, is no more or less shameful than many of the other top HWs. Are Cain Velasquez's last five opponents, at the time he faced them, equal to or greater in comparative relevance to Silva, Werdum, Rogers, Arlovski and Sylvia? Well, to put a complex issue simply, no.

    Simply put, Fyodor is a phenomenal fighter whose legacy speaks for itself to anybody not listening with a bias-tinged ear. He has clearly followed the well-trodden path of a quick descent from grace that has beset fighters throughout the entire history of combat sports - a fact, however, that ought not broad stroke the storied ascension which came before it.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by bigpapa View Post
    he got his ass beat. real bad. they had to call the fight.


    anybody still wanna say he is the greatest fighter ever?
    I will say it proudly: Fedor Emelianenko is the greatest fighter in MMA history.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  22. All great fighters fall at a certain point. That is what we witnessed tonight. He was the greatest HW of all time, but now he no longer is. End of
    story

  23. Quote Originally Posted by VolcomX311 View Post
    I don't think anyone is "destroying" Fedor, but I want to see that fight as well and I want to see Overeem come out on top.
    Haha you wanna still stay behind that comment? Fedor was destroyed last night by a guy who couldn't hold several of the UFC's heavyweights jock straps. He also was dominated by Bret Rogers before getting in a big punch in the second round. There are probably 10 heavyweights that are appreciably better than this guy. Imagine how badly Cain Velasquez would beat him.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    When one's entire experience of Fyodor has been couched within the zenith of Zuffa's reign, that position is, I think, a more prevalent one. That said, it ought to be a quick task demonstrating that even Fyodor's post-2005 opponents were august.

    Whether you care to take note of it or not, both Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski were not only consensus top five heavyweights when Fyodor faced them, but more directly to your point, were the best available options given promotional constraints. Similarly, and again whether you choose to accord it, Brett Rogers was a consensus top ten opponent at the time of their bout.

    Now, based on your tone of thought here, my inclination is that your response is to revise history based on the various permutations each fighter's history has taken since then. Hindsight, as they say, is always 20/20.

    I choose instead to judge fighter based on the quality of their opponents as their opponents were considered at the time - I task that becomes exceedingly difficult when you believe things like, "Fyodor left PRIDE." (Fyodor was under contract to PRIDE FC when it collapsed.)

    Judging the trajectory of Fyodor's career under that rubric, it becomes apparent that his quantum of opponents, even recently, is no more or less shameful than many of the other top HWs. Are Cain Velasquez's last five opponents, at the time he faced them, equal to or greater in comparative relevance to Silva, Werdum, Rogers, Arlovski and Sylvia? Well, to put a complex issue simply, no.

    Simply put, Fyodor is a phenomenal fighter whose legacy speaks for itself to anybody not listening with a bias-tinged ear. He has clearly followed the well-trodden path of a quick descent from grace that has beset fighters throughout the entire history of combat sports - a fact, however, that ought not broad stroke the storied ascension which came before it.
    Good points overall, but lets not forget that Werdum couldn't cut it in the UFC and was 2-2 overall...Also, there is no denying that even though AT THE TIME, Arlovski and Sylvia were considered top heavyweights, their downfalls had already begun and were not 100% the same fighters they had been. I don't believe that anyone who SERIOUSLY watches and studies MMA would say that Big Foot Silva or Bret Rogers would make any waves in the UFC heavyweight division, they are not nearly the athletes that some of the guys in the UFC are. So although relevance may be given to Fedor for the names he fought, that doesn't mean that he fought overall better competition.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by codered5 View Post
    Good points overall, but lets not forget that Werdum couldn't cut it in the UFC and was 2-2 overall...Also, there is no denying that even though AT THE TIME, Arlovski and Sylvia were considered top heavyweights, their downfalls had already begun and were not 100% the same fighters they had been. I don't believe that anyone who SERIOUSLY watches and studies MMA would say that Big Foot Silva or Bret Rogers would make any waves in the UFC heavyweight division, they are not nearly the athletes that some of the guys in the UFC are. So although relevance may be given to Fedor for the names he fought, that doesn't mean that he fought overall better competition.
    No one is ever going to debate the greatness of Royce Gracie, but he got old and wasn't fairing as well anymore. Fedor got old and also the sport has changed on him too.

    Werdum was a fluke, a mistake by Fedor which Werdum capitalized on greatly, but Fedor was winning that fight and for a moment I thought Werdum was done.

    Big Foot is a MASSIVE opponent, which is a development of the sport, and it really took Fedor, who is no longer a young gun and manhandled him then.

    It happens, it's a shame to see a legend lose, but what can one say, everyone's got their time and this is Fedor's time.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by codered5 View Post
    Good points overall, but lets not forget that Werdum couldn't cut it in the UFC and was 2-2 overall...Also, there is no denying that even though AT THE TIME, Arlovski and Sylvia were considered top heavyweights, their downfalls had already begun and were not 100% the same fighters they had been. I don't believe that anyone who SERIOUSLY watches and studies MMA would say that Big Foot Silva or Bret Rogers would make any waves in the UFC heavyweight division, they are not nearly the athletes that some of the guys in the UFC are. So although relevance may be given to Fedor for the names he fought, that doesn't mean that he fought overall better competition.
    Well, whatever given fighter X achieves after meeting given fighter Y is almost entirely peripheral to the events which occurred during and preceding their meeting. Combat sports are a generally fickle enterprise, so much so that delineating the exact moment of departure for a fighter's downfall is fruitless. Any even-handed approach judges a fighter's competition by how that competition was perceived at the time.

    At the time of the Arlovski/Fyodor bout, Arlovksi had just destroyed Roy Nelson - something Dos Santos failed to do in three rounds - and brutalized Ben Rothwell, a mutual achievement between himself and Velasquez.

    Now, based on your comments here regarding the UFC, one would naturally assume that you feel Dos Santos and Velasquez are elite HWs; and, no doubt, you therefore consider their victories over Nelson and Rothwell to be principal to that status. If that is true, which I think it is, than we should hold 2008-Arlovski in a similarly high regard. Well, Fyodor destroyed that Arlovski.

    The issue is that fighters are not elite simply by virtue of being in the UFC, but rather, the UFC happens to be possessive of the overwhelming majority of elite fighters. On close inspection based on talent, the UFC's and SF's HW divisions are more or less on par with one another - making the project of diminishing Fyodor's entire career based on his SF opposition a very unattractive prospect.

  27. People seem to completely underestimate the impact of being a 285lb going against a 230...

    Same deal as Brock on the UFC. Having 285lb on top of you is just ridiculous.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Well, whatever given fighter X achieves after meeting given fighter Y is almost entirely peripheral to the events which occurred during and preceding their meeting. Combat sports are a generally fickle enterprise, so much so that delineating the exact moment of departure for a fighter's downfall is fruitless. Any even-handed approach judges a fighter's competition by how that competition was perceived at the time.

    At the time of the Arlovski/Fyodor bout, Arlovksi had just destroyed Roy Nelson - something Dos Santos failed to do in three rounds - and brutalized Ben Rothwell, a mutual achievement between himself and Velasquez.

    Now, based on your comments here regarding the UFC, one would naturally assume that you feel Dos Santos and Velasquez are elite HWs; and, no doubt, you therefore consider their victories over Nelson and Rothwell to be principal to that status. If that is true, which I think it is, than we should hold 2008-Arlovski in a similarly high regard. Well, Fyodor destroyed that Arlovski.

    The issue is that fighters are not elite simply by virtue of being in the UFC, but rather, the UFC happens to be possessive of the overwhelming majority of elite fighters. On close inspection based on talent, the UFC's and SF's HW divisions are more or less on par with one another - making the project of diminishing Fyodor's entire career based on his SF opposition a very unattractive prospect.
    I understand what your saying..but first of all, Fedor did not destroy Arlovski, Arlovski was whoopin his As& and then got hit with a one hit knockout during a flying knee attempt thanks to his glass chin...and no, I am not trying to make the comparison to who they've beaten, bc as you point out, there is no transitive property in sports...I am merely with my eyes judging the kind of athletes they are. I guess the best way to describe what I am trying to say is to look at college football and the SEC vs everyone else....strikeforce's heavyweights are VERY good, but the UFC has more ELITE heavyweights. I think Overeem and a prime Josh Barnett are the only two who could compete at the highest level in the UFC...that is juts my OPINION based on what I see. And I realize that there are only a 3-4 UFC heavyweights that could compete at that same level...but the meat of the UFC's heavyweight division is far superior to Bret Rogers and Antonio Silva.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by codered5 View Post
    I understand what your saying..but first of all, Fedor did not destroy Arlovski, Arlovski was whoopin his As& and then got hit with a one hit knockout during a flying knee attempt thanks to his glass chin...and no, I am not trying to make the comparison to who they've beaten, bc as you point out, there is no transitive property in sports...I am merely with my eyes judging the kind of athletes they are. I guess the best way to describe what I am trying to say is to look at college football and the SEC vs everyone else....strikeforce's heavyweights are VERY good, but the UFC has more ELITE heavyweights. I think Overeem and a prime Josh Barnett are the only two who could compete at the highest level in the UFC...that is juts my OPINION based on what I see. And I realize that there are only a 3-4 UFC heavyweights that could compete at that same level...but the meat of the UFC's heavyweight division is far superior to Bret Rogers and Antonio Silva.
    Most of the UFC's HW are very unproven. Their top-3 would be Cain, JDS, and Brock. Now, when you breakdown their wins, their isn't a lot of substance to them. Brock's best win is against Mir, an overrated HW for his entire career. JDS best win would be against Nelson or Werdum. Cain's best win is Brock. There are not any legitimate threats to the title outside of those 3 fighters in the UFC with the others always going to be contenders.

    Now, Carwin, Mir, Schuab, Nelson, and Nog are still great fighters, but are either limited or past their respective primes.

    When you stack up against the top-8 of SF and the UFC, I give the advantage of depth and achievements to the SF roster. I easily think that 5 of SF's fighters could hold the UFC championship this moment (Barnett, Overeem, Kharitonov, Bigfoot, Fedor), but can't see anyone holding the UFC title outside of the aforementioned top-3.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  30. Well it doesn't matter, but I disagree wholeheartedly...Overeem is on another planet athletically as compared to kharitonov and bigfoot, just as I feel that Lesnar, Dos Santos, Carwin and Velasquez are. ...Guys like Kharitonov and Bigfoot can beat you if you do something stupid, which is why combat sports are so great... but 7-8 times out of 10 they have no business being in the ring with the elite guys we are talking about. And Fedor proved last night that the game has just changed too much on him.....guys that know how to use their size to their advantage (and also have good chins) will beat him most of the time if they are also submission savvy.
  

  
 

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