No one talking about Rampage vs Machida?

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    No one talking about Rampage vs Machida?


    The fight is tomorrow and nobody is even mentioning it. Do people just think Machida will dominate him with his speed kinda like Evans did? Im a big Rampage fan but not very optimistic about this one. This is a must-win for Rampage. Hopefully he can score an explosive knockout.

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    Kinda ironic no one replied but idc, Rampage pulled it out! Huge upset! Good job rampage!
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    Sorry, but Rampage didn't pull it out. Rampage was given the win. He definitely should not have won, and he said so himself. I don't care for Machida, but he should have won the fight.
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    I think the more pressing issue now is the lack of future for Matt Hughes and that DW announced BJ v. Fitch at 127. I would lov eto see BJ finish Fitch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacyfighter View Post
    Sorry, but Rampage didn't pull it out. Rampage was given the win. He definitely should not have won, and he said so himself. I don't care for Machida, but he should have won the fight.
    You're kidding right? How do you score the first two rounds where Machida didn't do **** all besides run away?

    29-28 Rampage. It wasn't pretty, but no doubt about it, he won.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacyfighter View Post
    Sorry, but Rampage didn't pull it out. Rampage was given the win. He definitely should not have won, and he said so himself. I don't care for Machida, but he should have won the fight.
    You are so right! I went back and watched the fight 2 more times after some people said Jackson clearly won.I think round 2 was close but belonged to Jackson.Round 3 was clearly Machida.

    That leaves round 1.First, Jackson did not even throw anything for the first 2 minutes while he was hit and kicked several times by Machida.After that there were 2 major clinchs.Jackson clearly came out on top in the first,Machida clearly got the better of him in the second.There were a few flouries by Jackson but everything he threw either missed, was blocked or deflected (a few times while being hit by counter shots).I actually do not think round one was close.Machida won it.
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    i am sorry for those who still feel machida won...compustrike stats even show jackosn cleary outscoring machida with landed shots 25-12 first round and 29-9 second round including a takedown. machida did win round three but the 6 shots he landed on rampage that most people are deeming to have been enough to win the fight..still dont make up for the first two rounds..especially when half of machidas landed strikes were leg kicks...but i guess that fact that for the first two rounds of rampage controlling the cage and cutting machida off contiously forcing the action/being the aggressor/ stalking him around and not counterfighting doesnt count for anything either. but this is my opinion and most mma fans now seem to experts in their own mind as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron fists View Post
    i am sorry for those who still feel machida won...compustrike stats even show jackosn cleary outscoring machida with landed shots 25-12 first round and 29-9 second round including a takedown. machida did win round three but the 6 shots he landed on rampage that most people are deeming to have been enough to win the fight..still dont make up for the first two rounds..especially when half of machidas landed strikes were leg kicks...but i guess that fact that for the first two rounds of rampage controlling the cage and cutting machida off contiously forcing the action/being the aggressor/ stalking him around and not counterfighting doesnt count for anything either. but this is my opinion and most mma fans now seem to experts in their own mind as well.
    I didnt see any compustrike stats. If thats true Im very surprised because it appeared that Machida clearly out landed Rampage. Especially with clean shots. Machida is difficult to score because of his style. He parries so many shots and doesnt take clean shots, while he lands them. I agree, Machida ran and didnt do much. I thought the fight as a whole was a big let down. Both guys were fighting way too cautious, not to lose. Rampage clearly thought he lost that fight.

    I like both guys, but was pulling for Rampage.
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    Rounds 1 and 2 were very close for sure. Octagon Control and agression points go to Page as Machida looked scared. Page was pressing action but didn't want punch air. This is why Page won.
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    4 things need to happen now to end this ****:
    1. Knees to the head of a downed opponent
    2. .5 point rounds; many are too close to give a full point difference
    3. Yellow cards
    4. TRAINED judges that are/were fighters and/or trainers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    4 things need to happen now to end this ****:
    1. Knees to the head of a downed opponent
    2. .5 point rounds; many are too close to give a full point difference
    3. Yellow cards
    4. TRAINED judges that are/were fighters and/or trainers
    I totally agree that there needs to be MMA specific judges. Not boxing judges. There is a difference in scoring methods. I also agree about the .5 scoring. That would make a huge difference in many close fights.

    I like the concept of the yellow cards but I think in Pride it was over done. On the other hand in the UFC they allow way too much stalling. Something has to be done though.

    Back in the day when everyone was arguing UFC or Pride rules. IMO I always thought a combination of both was ideal. Thats total fighting. Sadly in the US you wont see knees to a downed opponent.

    I thought Machida won the fight because he landed the cleaner blows. I dont think neither guy fought worth a crap though and did anything to improve their position for a title fight.
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    I was fully expecting Rampage to get decimated and made to look lost & confused and Lyoto's overtly evasive style, so this was a pleasant surprise. I would have put money on Lyoto prior to Saturday.

    That being said, in the long haul, I still believe Lyoto has a much, much greater chance at holding the belt again then Rampage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    4 things need to happen now to end this ****:
    1. Knees to the head of a downed opponent
    2. .5 point rounds; many are too close to give a full point difference
    3. Yellow cards
    4. TRAINED judges that are/were fighters and/or trainers
    #4 needs to happen first, but the only problem with having curent or even ex fighters, are the risk of biased judging if someone of your camp is in the ring. Trainers as well, so that's a hard one. Ex athletes tend to just become sports show hosts, where their loyalties have no weight on any teams' outcomes.
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    i agree ..but the yellow card needs to also come with a purse fine as well. it would be nice to have overtime rounds like in the tuf show too. or be like old pride with 2 rounds..one ten minute round and a 5 minute overtime. they really need more things to make fighters want to finsh fights instead on the old greg jackson special where you hang on and try not to get beat. soccer kicks/ head stomps should be with knees to the head of a downed opponent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron fists View Post
    i agree ..but the yellow card needs to also come with a purse fine as well. it would be nice to have overtime rounds like in the tuf show too. or be like old pride with 2 rounds..one ten minute round and a 5 minute overtime. they really need more things to make fighters want to finsh fights instead on the old greg jackson special where you hang on and try not to get beat. soccer kicks/ head stomps should be with knees to the head of a downed opponent.
    The purse deduction will never happen and Pride was a 10 minute round with 1, 5 minute round for non-title fights and 2, 5-minute rounds for title fights.

    They haven't had an overtime in UFC since the very, very early ages with Oleg, Tank, Severn, etc.
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    well they need to implement the purse fine...that way fighters like rashaad earn the money they make...he gets over 400k and doesnt fight to win, but fights fights not to lose.or they need to make point deductions for stalling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron fists View Post
    well they need to implement the purse fine...that way fighters like rashaad earn the money they make...he gets over 400k and doesnt fight to win, but fights fights not to lose.or they need to make point deductions for stalling.
    There's a lot of hate towards most of the Jackson camp, but I contend that it's up to BOTH fighters to make an exciting fight. Too damn bad if you can't stop a takedown; either learn to wrestle or become more dynamic off your back.

    Like I said, a purse fine will never happen and there is plenty of incentive to finish a fight with the bonuses and locker room pay as well.
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    yeah but what about the guys who just hold there opponent on the fence or who hold for a 5 minute takedown attempt??? its a fighting sport, am i not wrong? what most wrestlers have been doing im mma trying not to lose instead of winning would be like a wreslter in a match not doing anything but circle because he doesnt want to get taken down or his shot stuffed...but dont they get penalized for things like that though...but i do agree with the lack of skill that needs to be addressed...but that also is due to the fact that any body at any time can be a pro mma fighter..any random person can go fight and i they get any compensation for the showing...then they are now pro fighters.
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    I know Machida's style, but I wish he brought more of the brutality he can do like he did to Evans... when he wants to he can kick ass, he made Evans look like a 1st time amateur and beat the living **** out of him. Thats the Machida I want to see back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    4 things need to happen now to end this ****:
    1. Knees to the head of a downed opponent
    2. .5 point rounds; many are too close to give a full point difference
    3. Yellow cards
    4. TRAINED judges that are/were fighters and/or trainers
    So how would these rule changes have played out or made a difference in this RamChida fight???

    Discussion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron fists View Post
    yeah but what about the guys who just hold there opponent on the fence or who hold for a 5 minute takedown attempt??? its a fighting sport, am i not wrong? what most wrestlers have been doing im mma trying not to lose instead of winning would be like a wreslter in a match not doing anything but circle because he doesnt want to get taken down or his shot stuffed...but dont they get penalized for things like that though...but i do agree with the lack of skill that needs to be addressed...but that also is due to the fact that any body at any time can be a pro mma fighter..any random person can go fight and i they get any compensation for the showing...then they are now pro fighters.
    Again, learning BJJ off the back and cage tactics.

    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    So how would these rule changes have played out or made a difference in this RamChida fight???

    Discussion?
    The first 2 rounds would have been 10-9.5 with the third round being a 10-9. With this, it would have been 29-29 on two of the judges cards with 29.5-28.5 on another judges card.
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    well learning how to clinch and hold onto someone legs for 5 minutes is easier to learn than bjj. especially developing an effective guard .and cage tactics are hard to implement when you are fighting someone who doesnt want to really fight back other than clinch and attemp takedowns.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron fists View Post
    well learning how to clinch and hold onto someone legs for 5 minutes is easier to learn than bjj. especially developing an effective guard .and cage tactics are hard to implement when you are fighting someone who doesnt want to really fight back other than clinch and attemp takedowns.
    So you mean to tell me that becoming an elite BJJ player is difficult? How long have you been holding onto this information!?

    In all seriousness, though, this is the beauty of MMA. It's so dynamic that the runs of most fighters only last 3-5 years before the sport passes them by due to new training, integration, etc. Wrestlers have always had success in MMA and this will likely not change soon as more Olympians, D1 Champs, etc. are crossing over into MMA.

    The key word in your statement is attempt. It takes serious conditioning to press for 3 full rounds and not get caught. I personally have no problem if someone can constantly get a TD because it is up to the other fighter to counter and implement his strategy. There's no secret to Shields, GSP, Rashad, etc. gameplan and their opponents should also make a tactical plan to effectively counter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    So you mean to tell me that becoming an elite BJJ player is difficult? How long have you been holding onto this information!?

    In all seriousness, though, this is the beauty of MMA. It's so dynamic that the runs of most fighters only last 3-5 years before the sport passes them by due to new training, integration, etc. Wrestlers have always had success in MMA and this will likely not change soon as more Olympians, D1 Champs, etc. are crossing over into MMA.

    The key word in your statement is attempt. It takes serious conditioning to press for 3 full rounds and not get caught. I personally have no problem if someone can constantly get a TD because it is up to the other fighter to counter and implement his strategy. There's no secret to Shields, GSP, Rashad, etc. gameplan and their opponents should also make a tactical plan to effectively counter.

    exactly, if you know what they are going to do the burden is on you to develop a plan to stop it.
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    yeah but your not going to out wrestle a wrestler if they are better than you are..especially the caliber of olympians and d1 champs like you say..so with that in mind..how do you figth someone who is merely trying to wreslte their way into not getting beat...do you not take the fight..my point is if your not the better wrestler and your opponent only is wanting to wrestle i n the fight..how does one counter that..if the wreslte thows no punches and just clinches and holds..what do you do..even a bjj expert can get nulified with that tactics becuase even if they drop guard, the wreslter stills contiues to hold on and do nothing...then what, is it the bottom guys duty to let a guard pass or a mount happen just to further the action in attempt to get the obviously stalling wrestler to move??
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron fists View Post
    yeah but your not going to out wrestle a wrestler if they are better than you are..especially the caliber of olympians and d1 champs like you say..so with that in mind..how do you figth someone who is merely trying to wreslte their way into not getting beat...do you not take the fight..my point is if your not the better wrestler and your opponent only is wanting to wrestle i n the fight..how does one counter that..if the wreslte thows no punches and just clinches and holds..what do you do..even a bjj expert can get nulified with that tactics becuase even if they drop guard, the wreslter stills contiues to hold on and do nothing...then what, is it the bottom guys duty to let a guard pass or a mount happen just to further the action in attempt to get the obviously stalling wrestler to move??
    You act like wrestlers are infallible. There have been elite D1 wrestlers that have struggled in MMA (e.g. Jake Rosholt) and, like I said, devising a strategy to either keep the fight on the feet, counter, or bait a submission is on their opponent. Don't like it? Then quit watching MMA.
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    im not saying wrestlers are in fallible...but rosholt loses are do to him losing fights that he actually fights back in..he doesnt lay in pray are hold legs for round after round against the cage...he actually fights..as its mma or ultimate fighting, not ultimate wreslting. there are alot of great wreslters who get beat because they lose the fight like randy, hendo, coleman, king mo, kos, hammil, rashaad, simpson, dollaway etc...but they actually fight..but look at rashaad after his lose to machida now and king mo...they have both stated that they will go back to wrestling to win the point game...which is winning..but not fighting...with all of your new rules to implement for the sake of judging and fight finishing..then also include elbow strikes to the neck and back/ traps of an opponent laying on the legs of a 5 min takedown attempt...its no different than a knee to the head of downed opponent as far as serious injury concern, and it will make the praying wreslter either finish the takedown or transition to something else. ..i know back of the head shots are illegal..but then why is it ok for a wreslter to slam a guy down on the back of his head and neck, usually knocking them out, and that not be illegal??? its a back of the head strike..right? so allow those elbow strike defenses and see how that guy standups .
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron fists View Post
    im not saying wrestlers are in fallible...but rosholt loses are do to him losing fights that he actually fights back in..he doesnt lay in pray are hold legs for round after round against the cage...he actually fights..as its mma or ultimate fighting, not ultimate wreslting. there are alot of great wreslters who get beat because they lose the fight like randy, hendo, coleman, king mo, kos, hammil, rashaad, simpson, dollaway etc...but they actually fight..but look at rashaad after his lose to machida now and king mo...they have both stated that they will go back to wrestling to win the point game...which is winning..but not fighting...with all of your new rules to implement for the sake of judging and fight finishing..then also include elbow strikes to the neck and back/ traps of an opponent laying on the legs of a 5 min takedown attempt...its no different than a knee to the head of downed opponent as far as serious injury concern, and it will make the praying wreslter either finish the takedown or transition to something else. ..i know back of the head shots are illegal..but then why is it ok for a wreslter to slam a guy down on the back of his head and neck, usually knocking them out, and that not be illegal??? its a back of the head strike..right? so allow those elbow strike defenses and see how that guy standups .
    Wrestlers lose because their style doesn't always transition into MMA and they are forced to use their remaining skill set. Couture always has the same gameplan and he has only recently begun to really mix it up. Besides a good defense to a great wrestler are submissions. There are countless examples of a superior wrestler getting caught in a sub.

    The reason for no 12-6 strikes to that area is paralysis. If there is a stalled position like the one you're citing, the ref is supposed to be the one that breaks up the stall.

    A slam is not a back of the head strike. Why not ban all throws then if you're using this parameter as a back of the head strike? It's not the concussive force that is illegal as that would be stupid; it's the risk of paralysis.

    I seriously don't see what your gripe is about all of this. Like I said, either accept wrestling as a huge part of MMA or stop watching.
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    well as much as i appreciate your professional opinion...these are just opinions. and referees only break up stalling psotions like that when its a not a known wreslter doing it. but your saying that if a guy is in north south position and throws a knee to the head, that it doesnt have the same potential of an elbow to cause paralysis? and if its not for the back of the head hitting the ground from a downward slam, then what causes the knockout? its not the power of the slam i am questioning its the point of impact on the back of the head from the slam..and im not really griping..im just debating my opinion for conversation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron fists View Post
    well as much as i appreciate your professional opinion...these are just opinions. and referees only break up stalling psotions like that when its a not a known wreslter doing it. but your saying that if a guy is in north south position and throws a knee to the head, that it doesnt have the same potential of an elbow to cause paralysis? and if its not for the back of the head hitting the ground from a downward slam, then what causes the knockout? its not the power of the slam i am questioning its the point of impact on the back of the head from the slam..and im not really griping..im just debating my opinion for conversation.
    The referees have been under scrutiny for this reason. In the Harris/Falcao fight, there is huge talk about how they both should have been deducted points for timidity (which is a seldom enforced rule).

    As far as knees and slams go, knees to the head, which I am using as a general statement since most of them would be to the face from side mount, would not only increase the rates of finish, but also helps to expand the techniques that can be used. Obviously, a knee to the back of the head would have to be illegal, but knees a la Mark Kerr would be a nice change. Basically, the crown of the head would be fair game, but blows to the occipital would not be.

    A slam does have risk of concussive force, but so does a punch, kick, knee, etc. Also, you cannot spike a person on the top of the head a la Sapp/Nogueira. With a slam like Rampage/Arona, the force is not 100% on the head and Arona had the chance to let go of the submission. Machida was aware of this and smartly let go, but Dave Branch held onto guard against Gerald Harris and was slammed down resulting in a KO. The rationale for this is that the fighter knows the risk of holding onto the sub/position and chooses to put themselves into danger.
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