Lesnar VS Carwin

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    Lesnar VS Carwin


    This is an intriguing match-up! They both have wrestling (lesnars is supposed to be better) Carwin is the better puncher. How do you think this will play out? What's going to be the gameplan for each fighter? Does Lesnar avoid Carwin's fists by taking a fellow wrestler down?
    Boy, this one's exciting!
    I want Lesnar as heavyweight champ. I think he has the better package, like him or not. This one may break UFC PPV records.

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    They both have the same cage tactics and I think Carwin has the better camp. That being said, Lesnar is a much bigger man and a better wrestler than Carwin.

    My prediction: Lesnar wears down Carwin, whose gas tank is still unknown, for 2-3 rounds before capturing a TKO.
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    i would love to see carwin take this win, but i dont think itll happen, brock is just soo fast for his size its astonishing!

    im a big fan of both and will be happy with the fight no matter which way it ends up.

    i think brock will prob stick to his usual ground and pound tactics and keep carwin pressed up against that cage.

    but also carwin proved hes good off the cage .

    this is gonna be killer.

    to be personally honest i think the rich franklin v chuck will be one of the best stand up fights. both fighters love to throw hands.
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    Is Carwin still working full-time? Or did he get serious an take a leave to train for the title?
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    Has this fight been slated yet or is Lesnar still taking time off?
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    I think this will be Brocks biggest challenge yet because:

    The division 1(Brock) vs. division 2(Carwin) debate isnt relevant because neither of them have wrestled(ncaa rules) in a decade. And remember how much trouble Brock had trying to take down the 44 year old, 220 lb Randy?

    Brock hasnt faced ANYONE with real K.O. power.(yes, maybe Mir, but he's nowhere near the striker that Carwin is)

    Brock hasnt faced ANYONE with a build similar to his and could gas out trying for take downs(again, remember the Randy fight)

    Ring rust. Unlikely that he will be as freakish on fight night due to his long recovery.

    Lesner gets KTFO in the 2nd, then fights Dos Santos on the same card as Carwin-Velasquez for #1 contender.(prolly not, but that would be a helluva ppv!)
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    As much as I would like to see Lesnar KTFO'd in humiliating style, I think Rodja's reasoning is the more likely outcome.
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    Truthfully, if Lesnar pulls this one off he is either a master at the gameplan or superhuman. Not only is he coming off a major illness but also coming off a surgery! I just came off minor surgery and getting back in shape is no picknick....the momentum is 100% lost, not to mention any training limitations. So if anyone has a claim to ring rust it sue is gonna be Lesnar. Stylistically, Carwin is a very bad matchup for Lesnar at any time. Especially coming off surgery, illness/layoff.
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    if Shane can drill him on the chin, roid monkey will go down just like anyone else. knowing lesnar he will probably run shane up to the fence and work for a td the entire round. i really really hope carwin is training hard, he deserves the belt.
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    Lesnar by TKO in the later rounds or Carwin by KO in the 1st or 2nd. I'm pulling for Lesnar, but Carwin is a classy enough fighter that it wouldn't be devastating. As long as it isn't Frank Mir or Cain, I won't complain too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VolcomX311 View Post
    Lesnar by TKO in the later rounds or Carwin by KO in the 1st or 2nd. I'm pulling for Lesnar, but Carwin is a classy enough fighter that it wouldn't be devastating. As long as it isn't Frank Mir or Cain, I won't complain too much.

    War Broccoli Lesnar.
    Why not Cain? I think he's much more classy and respectfull than Carwin. There's a long thread at sherdog of Carwin recently disrespecting Lesnar all the while Lesnar training hard & keeping quiet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    Why not Cain? I think he's much more classy and respectfull than Carwin. There's a long thread at sherdog of Carwin recently disrespecting Lesnar all the while Lesnar training hard & keeping quiet.
    What irks me about Cain is the whole Brown Pride mantra that he has.
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    My opinion is that major surgery and a life threatening condition has had to of taken a serious toll on lesnar. That puts the odds greatly in favor of carwin who is in top condition. However, lesnar still has a punchers chance early in the fight. I don't think the fact that carwin has ever mad it out of the first round is much of a factor. Just because it hasn't been tested, doesn't mean his endurance isn't there. I wish lesnar could be given a tune up fight before hand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    What irks me about Cain is the whole Brown Pride mantra that he has.
    I think this whole thing gets blown waaaaaayyyyy out of proportion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vtaper View Post
    I think this will be Brocks biggest challenge yet because:

    The division 1(Brock) vs. division 2(Carwin) debate isnt relevant because neither of them have wrestled(ncaa rules) in a decade. And remember how much trouble Brock had trying to take down the 44 year old, 220 lb Randy?
    If this were true, than Josh Koschek, Jon Fitch, Randy Couture, Mo Lawal, Daniel Cormier, Phil Davis, Ben Askren, etc., should be reminded that time away from the ring means your skills do not translate! Not picking on you, but this is somewhat of an irrelevant point.

    They may not compete in tournaments, but they still train in wrestling - this is mixed martial arts, after all - and there is really no comparison between Div I and II with regard to talent. Lesnar is a better wrestler than Carwin, this can be said without much doubt.

    How that will translate to their bout remains to be seen, however. And Randy is a master of the cage, by the way. Once things got away from Randy's cage tactics - the best in the business - Lesnar did not struggle to put Randy on his back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJoshStud View Post
    My opinion is that major surgery and a life threatening condition has had to of taken a serious toll on lesnar. That puts the odds greatly in favor of carwin who is in top condition. However, lesnar still has a punchers chance early in the fight. I don't think the fact that carwin has ever mad it out of the first round is much of a factor. Just because it hasn't been tested, doesn't mean his endurance isn't there. I wish lesnar could be given a tune up fight before hand.
    If anything, I think it's flipped. Carwin has demonstrated 1-punch KO power on several occasions and Lesnar has not. As the fight goes on, and Carwin finds himself in a spot he has yet to be, Lesnar will be able to use his mass to move Carwin around the cage.
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    I still see a lot of people saying that Lesnar is finally meeting someone his size. You could have fooled me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pembroke3355 View Post
    I still see a lot of people saying that Lesnar is finally meeting someone his size. You could have fooled me.

    where did u get this?

    i would like to look up other fights coming up if thats the case with this image
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    who gave Lesnar this purple belt in BJJ? his wrestling coach? and there is no way he runs a 40 in 4.6 being almost a 300 pound man. also, Lesnar muay thai? ive never seen a single elbow or kick, maybe a half a$$ knee and crappy telegraphed punches. something tells me these stats are self-reported
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    and there is no way he runs a 40 in 4.6 being almost a 300 pound man
    Negative. He ran this at the Minnesota Vikings recruitment camp (made the exhibition squad).

    also, Lesnar muay thai? ive never seen a single elbow or kick, maybe a half a$$ knee and crappy telegraphed punches.
    He used a Thai clinch effectively against Randy, I believe. And other than that, he predominantly uses his wrestling. Nobody is claiming he is Chute Boxe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    who gave Lesnar this purple belt in BJJ? his wrestling coach? and there is no way he runs a 40 in 4.6 being almost a 300 pound man. also, Lesnar muay thai? ive never seen a single elbow or kick, maybe a half a$$ knee and crappy telegraphed punches. something tells me these stats are self-reported
    Do you really need to do that if you can just bring someone down and pound them to oblivion. He ran a documented 4.75 40 when trying out for the Vikings and that was not far removed from a motorcycle accident that he had not fully recovered from. The dude is just a freak. He also was 290lbs when he ran that time for the Vikings. Carwin has 2 chances he either needs to land that big hand before Lesnar grabs him or he need to hope for a mistake like the one that happened in Lesnar-Mir 1.

    If Lesnar brings Carwin to the floor and starts grinding that bowling ball head right under Carwin's chin and the hammer fists start to fly good night Carwin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Fires View Post
    where did u get this?

    i would like to look up other fights coming up if thats the case with this image
    Someone sent it to me so I am not sure.
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    why are all you guys saying he can/will muscle Carwin around the cage and take him down? He tried to muscle around a puny Randy Couture, and look how effective that was. My point is that a guy about as big as himself and equal in wrestling, Brock will struggle to muscle him around and his takedowns will likely be stuffed. That is at least for the first couple of rounds or so, Shane's gas tank has yet to be tested, so that might become null and void in the later rounds....but who knows for sure?

    And yeah the brown pride thing on Cain's chest has me disliking the guy too. He is an American that was born in America....why all the mexican flag and brown pride flaunting??? I can guarantee you this: if a white fighter was flaunting a huge tattoo on his chest that said "white pride" there would be a media frenzy villiafying the guy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kegger View Post
    why are all you guys saying he can/will muscle Carwin around the cage and take him down? He tried to muscle around a puny Randy Couture, and look how effective that was. My point is that a guy about as big as himself and equal in wrestling, Brock will struggle to muscle him around and his takedowns will likely be stuffed. That is at least for the first couple of rounds or so, Shane's gas tank has yet to be tested, so that might become null and void in the later rounds....but who knows for sure?

    And yeah the brown pride thing on Cain's chest has me disliking the guy too. He is an American that was born in America....why all the mexican flag and brown pride flaunting??? I can guarantee you this: if a white fighter was flaunting a huge tattoo on his chest that said "white pride" there would be a media frenzy villiafying the guy.
    I think an issue when it comes to wrestling, in MMA in particular, is that people fail to make distinctions between types of wrestling - i.e., people continuing to call Dan Henderson a phenomenal wrestler in the sense of freestyle - or in other words, open cage TDs, singles, doubles and so on - when his Olympic placement was on the Greco-Roman team. This is why Dan Henderson has been "outwrestled" on the mat pretty consistently in his career.

    At any rate, I say that because the only place Lesnar faield to "outwrestle" Randy was on the cage; and that is simply because Randy may quite literally be the greatest MMA cage-wrestling tactician of all-time. Saying that he was unable to manhandle Randy against the cage does not indicate much of anything, considering there are few people on earth who would be capable of doing so.

    But in reality, once the grappling moved away from the cage we did see Lesnar manhandle Randy. We have to be careful in remembering that not all wrestling equates.
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    At the end of the day, Lesnar brings a bigger positive to the fight IMO. He will use his freakish size, speed, and wrestling to take down Carwin in eerily similar fashion to Mir II.

    Carwin has a shot of course. Those big lunchbox paws of his will make him dangerous, however, Lesnar is truly the freakiest athlete IMO in MMA. That size coupled with such crazy speed and athleticsm, and then just a nasty person overall

    That said, Lesnar via TKO rd3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    If this were true, than Josh Koschek, Jon Fitch, Randy Couture, Mo Lawal, Daniel Cormier, Phil Davis, Ben Askren, etc., should be reminded that time away from the ring means your skills do not translate! Not picking on you, but this is somewhat of an irrelevant point.
    My point here Mullet is about the people(on TV or mma websites)who put WAY too much emphasis only on the D-1 , D-2 issue. This is mma; wrestling is just a piece of the puzzle. Is Lesnar a better wrestler? Sure. If they had a match tomorrow under NCAA rules, Lesnar would probably beat him. But I think Carwin is a good enough wrestler to NOT get thrown around like Mir did.

    And you mentioning those fighters would only be relevant if ANY of them had an mma match that was going to be an easy win primarily because their opponent was a pawltry D-2 wrestler 10 years ago.

    But I see Koschek and Fitch on that list, lets add 2 more D-1 wrestlers: Matt Hughes and Frank Trigg. What do the 4 of them have in common? They all got beat by someone with NO collegiate wrestling backround.....GSP

    BTW, after seeing the post with their stats, I might give the edge back to Lesnar. I was still believing the 6'4", has-to-cut to 265 myth about Carwin. I thought they were much closer in size, I believe Lesnar has a 2" reach advantage too.

    Anyway, who do you think will win this fight?
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    I think the distinction between the D-1 vs D-2 is talent. There is a big facking difference in level of talent. That is like sending a D-2 school against a D-1 school in football. The level of competition they faced was different. People say well that was X years ago. I gurantee u someone who has spent a greater part of their life wrestling has the sh1t imbeded in their memory. Talent/natural ability translates to MMA when u can use it for instance wrestling.

    The whole thing about GSP never wrestling is the man should have wrestled to begin with lol I am he is talented. Plus he times his takedowns well.
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    I thiink Lesnar's illness, surgery & time off will take its toll....it has to!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vtaper View Post
    My point here Mullet is about the people(on TV or mma websites)who put WAY too much emphasis only on the D-1 , D-2 issue. This is mma; wrestling is just a piece of the puzzle. Is Lesnar a better wrestler? Sure. If they had a match tomorrow under NCAA rules, Lesnar would probably beat him. But I think Carwin is a good enough wrestler to NOT get thrown around like Mir did.

    And you mentioning those fighters would only be relevant if ANY of them had an mma match that was going to be an easy win primarily because their opponent was a pawltry D-2 wrestler 10 years ago.
    This is a strange point, and I am not sure it carries much weight. Their experience is always relevant when they fight a match in MMA: your original point was about transferability - i.e., superior wrestling on a mat does not translate to the Octagon. My point was: well, of course it does.

    If Carwin was 'wrestling quality X' prior to becoming a mixed martial artist, and Lesnar was 'wrestling quality Y' prior to becoming a mixed martial artist, than ceretis paribus (both continuing to work on their wrestling) than Lesnar will still be a 'Y' to Carwin's 'X'. Whether or not they have wrestled on a mat in the NCAA tournament in ten years is completely irrelevant to that.

    But I see Koschek and Fitch on that list, lets add 2 more D-1 wrestlers: Matt Hughes and Frank Trigg. What do the 4 of them have in common? They all got beat by someone with NO collegiate wrestling backround.....GSP
    Yes, and? How does that in any way negate the sheer talent difference between NCAA I and II? I think you may be trying to allude to skills eroding once in MMA, but this is not a phenomenal way to do it. Especially because GSP did not beat either Hughes or Trigg with his wrestling - but at any rate, he has indeed become the best functional MMA wrestler by working with the Canadian Olympic team. Still, this does nothing to change the fact of Lesnar and Carwin's wrestling difference, lol.

    Anyway, who do you think will win this fight?
    Lesnar, 2nd RD TKO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88 View Post
    I think the distinction between the D-1 vs D-2 is talent. There is a big facking difference in level of talent. That is like sending a D-2 school against a D-1 school in football. The level of competition they faced was different. People say well that was X years ago. I gurantee u someone who has spent a greater part of their life wrestling has the sh1t imbeded in their memory. Talent/natural ability translates to MMA when u can use it for instance wrestling.

    The whole thing about GSP never wrestling is the man should have wrestled to begin with lol I am he is talented. Plus he times his takedowns well.
    Well said!
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    carwins strategy might be to go for the submission.

    i truely believe that is lesnars weak spot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Well said!
    Hey someone liked a point I made.... cool lol.
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    If Lesnar is not really recovered from the surgery that will be his best shot. If he is I think Carwin will taste defeat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Fires View Post
    carwins strategy might be to go for the submission.

    i truely believe that is lesnars weak spot.
    If Mir could not submit Lesnar off his back in the second bout, I personally give little chance to Carwin.
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    I'm putting my money on carwin ... I believe carwin is much more well rounded then lesnar but it should be a very eventfull fight
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    If Carwin was 'wrestling quality X' prior to becoming a mixed martial artist, and Lesnar was 'wrestling quality Y' prior to becoming a mixed martial artist, than ceretis paribus (both continuing to work on their wrestling) than Lesnar will still be a 'Y' to Carwin's 'X'. Whether or not they have wrestled on a mat in the NCAA tournament in ten years is completely irrelevant to that.
    This is why I questioned it in the first place, Carwin stayed involved in college wrestling(coaching)through 04', then started fighting professionally in 05'. Lesnar had a 6 year hiatus while he pursued the WWE and football.

    I know the differences between D 1 and D 2 are huge; I am simply suggesting that what they did between 2000-2006 MAY have allowed Carwin to close that gap a little. But as I stated before, this all stemmed from an erroneous fact: that they were the same size.

    Now that Lesnar brings what I would call a significant size advantage, I retract my statements about the wrestling not being as big of an issue. Either way, its going to be thrilling fight that either guy could end in seconds. Im still taking Carwin 2nd rd KO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vtaper View Post
    This is why I questioned it in the first place, Carwin stayed involved in college wrestling(coaching)through 04', then started fighting professionally in 05'. Lesnar had a 6 year hiatus while he pursued the WWE and football.
    Which is fine, but you have to recall that they had wrestled for 20+ years before that. As Tomahawk said, the largest difference was talent: something that is not necessarily an issue of time spent, coaching, etc., but simply natural skill. You never lose that - except to age - and so the difference in their wrestling talent is as great as it was back then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Which is fine, but you have to recall that they had wrestled for 20+ years before that. As Tomahawk said, the largest difference was talent: something that is not necessarily an issue of time spent, coaching, etc., but simply natural skill. You never lose that - except to age - and so the difference in their wrestling talent is as great as it was back then.
    Agreed, there is a huge difference between D1 and D2 in all aspects. There is a reason that Carwin (no disrespect) went D2, the D1 schools did not think he was at that level.
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    carwin got so much power though he just killed mier like he has the strongest hand i have ever seen in my life
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    This is not a wrestling match, so the differences will mean little. I still say Lesnar has to suffer ring rust due to illness/surgery which means we will probably see a rematch.
  

  
 

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