Lesnar VS Carwin

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    If this were true, than Josh Koschek, Jon Fitch, Randy Couture, Mo Lawal, Daniel Cormier, Phil Davis, Ben Askren, etc., should be reminded that time away from the ring means your skills do not translate! Not picking on you, but this is somewhat of an irrelevant point.
    My point here Mullet is about the people(on TV or mma websites)who put WAY too much emphasis only on the D-1 , D-2 issue. This is mma; wrestling is just a piece of the puzzle. Is Lesnar a better wrestler? Sure. If they had a match tomorrow under NCAA rules, Lesnar would probably beat him. But I think Carwin is a good enough wrestler to NOT get thrown around like Mir did.

    And you mentioning those fighters would only be relevant if ANY of them had an mma match that was going to be an easy win primarily because their opponent was a pawltry D-2 wrestler 10 years ago.

    But I see Koschek and Fitch on that list, lets add 2 more D-1 wrestlers: Matt Hughes and Frank Trigg. What do the 4 of them have in common? They all got beat by someone with NO collegiate wrestling backround.....GSP

    BTW, after seeing the post with their stats, I might give the edge back to Lesnar. I was still believing the 6'4", has-to-cut to 265 myth about Carwin. I thought they were much closer in size, I believe Lesnar has a 2" reach advantage too.

    Anyway, who do you think will win this fight?


  2. I think the distinction between the D-1 vs D-2 is talent. There is a big facking difference in level of talent. That is like sending a D-2 school against a D-1 school in football. The level of competition they faced was different. People say well that was X years ago. I gurantee u someone who has spent a greater part of their life wrestling has the sh1t imbeded in their memory. Talent/natural ability translates to MMA when u can use it for instance wrestling.

    The whole thing about GSP never wrestling is the man should have wrestled to begin with lol I am he is talented. Plus he times his takedowns well.
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  3. I thiink Lesnar's illness, surgery & time off will take its toll....it has to!

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Vtaper View Post
    My point here Mullet is about the people(on TV or mma websites)who put WAY too much emphasis only on the D-1 , D-2 issue. This is mma; wrestling is just a piece of the puzzle. Is Lesnar a better wrestler? Sure. If they had a match tomorrow under NCAA rules, Lesnar would probably beat him. But I think Carwin is a good enough wrestler to NOT get thrown around like Mir did.

    And you mentioning those fighters would only be relevant if ANY of them had an mma match that was going to be an easy win primarily because their opponent was a pawltry D-2 wrestler 10 years ago.
    This is a strange point, and I am not sure it carries much weight. Their experience is always relevant when they fight a match in MMA: your original point was about transferability - i.e., superior wrestling on a mat does not translate to the Octagon. My point was: well, of course it does.

    If Carwin was 'wrestling quality X' prior to becoming a mixed martial artist, and Lesnar was 'wrestling quality Y' prior to becoming a mixed martial artist, than ceretis paribus (both continuing to work on their wrestling) than Lesnar will still be a 'Y' to Carwin's 'X'. Whether or not they have wrestled on a mat in the NCAA tournament in ten years is completely irrelevant to that.

    But I see Koschek and Fitch on that list, lets add 2 more D-1 wrestlers: Matt Hughes and Frank Trigg. What do the 4 of them have in common? They all got beat by someone with NO collegiate wrestling backround.....GSP
    Yes, and? How does that in any way negate the sheer talent difference between NCAA I and II? I think you may be trying to allude to skills eroding once in MMA, but this is not a phenomenal way to do it. Especially because GSP did not beat either Hughes or Trigg with his wrestling - but at any rate, he has indeed become the best functional MMA wrestler by working with the Canadian Olympic team. Still, this does nothing to change the fact of Lesnar and Carwin's wrestling difference, lol.

    Anyway, who do you think will win this fight?
    Lesnar, 2nd RD TKO.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88 View Post
    I think the distinction between the D-1 vs D-2 is talent. There is a big facking difference in level of talent. That is like sending a D-2 school against a D-1 school in football. The level of competition they faced was different. People say well that was X years ago. I gurantee u someone who has spent a greater part of their life wrestling has the sh1t imbeded in their memory. Talent/natural ability translates to MMA when u can use it for instance wrestling.

    The whole thing about GSP never wrestling is the man should have wrestled to begin with lol I am he is talented. Plus he times his takedowns well.
    Well said!
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  6. carwins strategy might be to go for the submission.

    i truely believe that is lesnars weak spot.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Well said!
    Hey someone liked a point I made.... cool lol.

  8. If Lesnar is not really recovered from the surgery that will be his best shot. If he is I think Carwin will taste defeat.
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by Jake Fires View Post
    carwins strategy might be to go for the submission.

    i truely believe that is lesnars weak spot.
    If Mir could not submit Lesnar off his back in the second bout, I personally give little chance to Carwin.

  10. I'm putting my money on carwin ... I believe carwin is much more well rounded then lesnar but it should be a very eventfull fight

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    If Carwin was 'wrestling quality X' prior to becoming a mixed martial artist, and Lesnar was 'wrestling quality Y' prior to becoming a mixed martial artist, than ceretis paribus (both continuing to work on their wrestling) than Lesnar will still be a 'Y' to Carwin's 'X'. Whether or not they have wrestled on a mat in the NCAA tournament in ten years is completely irrelevant to that.
    This is why I questioned it in the first place, Carwin stayed involved in college wrestling(coaching)through 04', then started fighting professionally in 05'. Lesnar had a 6 year hiatus while he pursued the WWE and football.

    I know the differences between D 1 and D 2 are huge; I am simply suggesting that what they did between 2000-2006 MAY have allowed Carwin to close that gap a little. But as I stated before, this all stemmed from an erroneous fact: that they were the same size.

    Now that Lesnar brings what I would call a significant size advantage, I retract my statements about the wrestling not being as big of an issue. Either way, its going to be thrilling fight that either guy could end in seconds. Im still taking Carwin 2nd rd KO.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Vtaper View Post
    This is why I questioned it in the first place, Carwin stayed involved in college wrestling(coaching)through 04', then started fighting professionally in 05'. Lesnar had a 6 year hiatus while he pursued the WWE and football.
    Which is fine, but you have to recall that they had wrestled for 20+ years before that. As Tomahawk said, the largest difference was talent: something that is not necessarily an issue of time spent, coaching, etc., but simply natural skill. You never lose that - except to age - and so the difference in their wrestling talent is as great as it was back then.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Which is fine, but you have to recall that they had wrestled for 20+ years before that. As Tomahawk said, the largest difference was talent: something that is not necessarily an issue of time spent, coaching, etc., but simply natural skill. You never lose that - except to age - and so the difference in their wrestling talent is as great as it was back then.
    Agreed, there is a huge difference between D1 and D2 in all aspects. There is a reason that Carwin (no disrespect) went D2, the D1 schools did not think he was at that level.

  14. carwin got so much power though he just killed mier like he has the strongest hand i have ever seen in my life

  15. This is not a wrestling match, so the differences will mean little. I still say Lesnar has to suffer ring rust due to illness/surgery which means we will probably see a rematch.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    This is not a wrestling match
    Do you watch much MMA as of late, or ever? Haha.

  17. Another thing about the wrestling issue: Lesnar's training partners are much larger and accredited wrestlers than Carwin's.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  18. Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    This is not a wrestling match, so the differences will mean little. I still say Lesnar has to suffer ring rust due to illness/surgery which means we will probably see a rematch.
    I gurantee u Lesnar goes to takedown Carwin pretty damn quick.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88 View Post
    I gurantee u Lesnar goes to takedown Carwin pretty damn quick.
    I agree and if he does it is goodbye Carwin. If Lesnar does not take him down he risks getting knocked out.
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by pembroke3355 View Post
    I agree and if he does it is goodbye Carwin. If Lesnar does not take him down he risks getting knocked out.
    Agreed, this could look a lot like Lesnar Mir II or Carwin/Mir dpeending on who can institute their game plan first

  21. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Agreed, this could look a lot like Lesnar Mir II or Carwin/Mir dpeending on who can institute their game plan first
    This is more than likely the determining factor.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  22. Quote Originally Posted by Vtaper View Post
    This is why I questioned it in the first place, Carwin stayed involved in college wrestling(coaching)through 04', then started fighting professionally in 05'. Lesnar had a 6 year hiatus while he pursued the WWE and football.

    I know the differences between D 1 and D 2 are huge; I am simply suggesting that what they did between 2000-2006 MAY have allowed Carwin to close that gap a little. But as I stated before, this all stemmed from an erroneous fact: that they were the same size.

    Now that Lesnar brings what I would call a significant size advantage, I retract my statements about the wrestling not being as big of an issue. Either way, its going to be thrilling fight that either guy could end in seconds. Im still taking Carwin 2nd rd KO.
    Dont forget that during that 6 year hiatus Brock juiced his a$$ off, especially in WWE. everyone knows it, whoever thinks he didnt is naive. whether that made a difference towards making him an even more powerful manchild, i dont know, but im leaning towards yes.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    Dont forget that during that 6 year hiatus Brock juiced his a$$ off, especially in WWE. everyone knows it, whoever thinks he didnt is naive. whether that made a difference towards making him an even more powerful manchild, i dont know, but im leaning towards yes.
    And no other MMA pro has not juiced in the past. If you believe that then your naive. HGH is still not detectable nor can you detect some of the peptides that are out now IGF-1 LR3 as a example. Lesnar was a beast is high school. There is no question that he has used stuff but I also have no doubt that 85-90% of the current pro have or still are using PEDS. Here is a pic of him in college where he was tested many times for steriods.

    Ask me for samples of the new RecoverPRO and Maniac. 3Z is coming July 1st Facebook for more info and maybe a great deal on it coming.
    http://twitter.com/#!/TeamAISports
    http://www.facebook.com/AISportsNutrition

  24. My friend who fights has had a two personal encounters with a seller (who is actually a pro card holding bodybuilder) on their way to Xtreme Couture. That doesn't directly implicate anything or anyone, but he doesn't go to Xtreme Couture with his goods just to say hello. (Primarily selling Anavar to be exact).

    I can't speak for anywhere else, but even the amateur circuits around L.A. are roid & growth infected. Hell, even the BJJ tournament circuits are roid & growth infected (around here).
    NSCA - CSCS

  25. Thats funny,because I heard the same thing about Xtreme Couture...actually about most MMA fighters.
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