Evans vs Jackson

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    Evans vs Jackson


    Just wanted to start talking about this one. I will be rooting for Evans I personally think he is a much more well rounded fighter just has to stay away from Quinton power which is kinda confusing since he has knocked out some really tough guys but couldn't finish some who seem to have weak chins but we'll see what happens

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    not too sure which way I am leaning on this one. I can see Rashad using his speedand explosive wrestling to stay away and take him down. However, I also could see him getting tagged and KTFO like Page did to Wandy.

    Gun to my head prediction: Rampage by tko early in rd 2
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    If Evan's puts his chin out there, I dont think Jackson will have any problem putting out his lights. But if Evans stays tucked in, its hard to say
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    Definitely looking forward to this fight.
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    I'm going with Rashad on this one and my fingers are crossed that the fight will indeed turn out to be what we expect. There have been a lot of dissapointing cards in recent past and this is the only one I am actually getting PPV for rather than stream it online for free.
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    im hoping rashad gets KTFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by purelife1 View Post
    im hoping rashad gets KTFO
    Oh u mean like before against Machida

    I really hope to see this 1. I have missed out on the last few ones. Here is praying my friends will want to go chance it and watch the UFC fights on graduation night.
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    evans!!

    i think rampage is too much into becoming a movie star.

    evans is gonna shut him down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Fires View Post
    evans!!

    i think rampage is too much into becoming a movie star.

    evans is gonna shut him down.
    It does seem like Evans is more focused on fighting while Jackson is branching out for lift after fighting. But maybe Jackson hates Evans enough to buckle down. I sure hope so. I want to see a FIGHT not be disappointed.
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    Rampage looking lean and uncharacteristically focused.

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    hmm i duno i watched that last episode and he was walking around very lean at 220-225 they said. trainer also says he came into camp at 250. tells me that he didnt train/eat well at all before camp. how hard is it to cut water from 220 to 205? i never cut weight so i dont know, maybe someone else can weigh in on that. i dont see him leaning out any more so its gonna have to be all water to get to the weight.
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    I think Rashad is trying harder. I dont trust rampage anymore. I want page to win but have a strong feeling rashad evans has this
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolcomX311 View Post
    Rampage looking lean and uncharacteristically focused.

    this just looks like more popularity for rampage, which seems to be on his mind to me, wheres rashad? he goes to the manditory interviews and thats it, i believe the one keeping the lower profile is gonna win.
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    not the best fight but rashad def got the win with his drunken monkey boxing tactics hehee.
    +1
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    now lets see what he can do with Shogun. He will probably be able to control him with his wrestling for a round or two. The question will be....will he be able to maintain that for 5 rounds. I doubt it, although it will be fun to watch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Fires View Post
    not the best fight but rashad def got the win with his drunken monkey boxing tactics hehee.
    +1
    That is not drunken monkey boxing bro, that is REAL boxing, that is the problem with a lot of MMA fighters; they lack good head movement along punching precision. Rashad demonstrated that he is an evolved MMA fighter, although I do not see him beating ShoGun due to the devestating low leg kicks he will bring to stabilize Rashad's footwork.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew732 View Post
    That is not drunken monkey boxing bro, that is REAL boxing, that is the problem with a lot of MMA fighters; they lack good head movement along punching precision. Rashad demonstrated that he is an evolved MMA fighter, although I do not see him beating ShoGun due to the devestating low leg kicks he will bring to stabilize Rashad's footwork.
    No, that was a wrestling stance. Literally. Haha.

    And in reality, Rampage's boxing fundamentals are far more sound than Rashad's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    No, that was a wrestling stance. Literally. Haha.

    And in reality, Rampage's boxing fundamentals are far more sound than Rashad's.
    Yes it was a wrestling stance while boxing, its MMA not boxing, secondly bro, based on what I have seen, Rashad has a better boxing concept thatn Rampage, why, because he does not punch to push insides the body, rather he punches to barely touch so that he has enough time to pull back his hand for defensive/footwork purposes, trust me its one of my bases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew732 View Post
    Yes it was a wrestling stance while boxing, its MMA not boxing
    Indeed - but it had nothing to do with maintaining a proper orthodox stance whatsoever (which Rashad would be, given he is right handed).

    His knees were bent to maximize explosiveness with the TD; his feet were narrow, with his lead foot far further in front than one would normally see with an orthodox stance; his body was tilted at the hips, with a straight back, and his elbows were near the thighs for full extension of the arm to grab hold of Rampage during the shot. In other words, he maintained a proper wrestling base with ready penetration step to either a) clinch against the fence or b) shoot in for the double leg TD - you know, exactly the game plan he executed.

    This was a wrestling stance, and that is what the other poster was alluding to: why Rashad was so incredibly low with a ready penetration step. Like so:

    378957276dLpZtp_ph.jpg

    Look familiar?

    secondly bro, based on what I have seen, Rashad has a better boxing concept thatn Rampage, why, because he does not punch to push insides the body, rather he punches to barely touch so that he has enough time to pull back his hand for defensive/footwork purposes, trust me its one of my bases.
    He has quick hands, but his boxing base, if we are talking about orthodox boxing, is far worse than Rampage's - I think you may be confusing the speed of his footwork and his more dynamic striking for a "good base." In reality, Rampage's hand positioning, tucked chin and the closer and more diagonal positioning of his feet gives him a) a better boxing defense than Rashad and b) a better ability to counter, in particular with the lead left or right hook. Again, I think you are letting their respective speeds fool you slightly here.

    This is MMA, so overall, due to speed and athleticism, I may consider deeming Rashad the more "effective" striker "overall," but in terms of boxing fundamentals (what we are talking about) there is really no contest. So, if it is one of your bases, may be time to brush up!
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    That was a boring fight. It was like watching Randy Couture push someone against the cage without the dirty boxing thrown in.
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    Disappointing fight. A little surprised, but not shocked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron fists View Post
    rashad has mastered how to fight without really fighting..like rampage said in the post fight interview..he lost a wrestling match because thats all rashad did was wrestle...but rampage should have went for the kill when rashad got back up and was still dazed on his feet he let rashad move for almost 1:30 before he went to attack again....and i cant believe rashad gets paid 435k to go wrestle out a win.
    Seriously. If I wanted to watch two ***s wrestle...

    Nothing makes me happier than seeing wrestlers and BJJ guys beat the **** up.
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    I was honestly not that disappointed in the fight. But then again, I expected to watch Rashad Evans and Quinton Jackson practice MMA, and I wound up watching just that.

    If you allowed the hype to get to warp your perception of the fight, than I would say you ought to be disappointed in yourself, rather than the fight. And that is just a general comment, not directed toward any individual in particular.

    Rashad's short-lived "Roy Jones Jr" performances ended quickly and swiftly with his knockout loss to Machida: afterward, it was clear he was going to go back to his wrestling base and maximize his potential to win, and we saw that with the Thiago Silva fight. Rashad was aware of Rampage's superior boxing, so there was little chance he was going to brawl with him - Forrest Griffin/Stephan Bonnar this was never going to be!

    I saw a fairly tactical - if albeit slightly uneventful match - with some solid striking by Rashad, very good TD defense by Rampage, and gained some respect for Rashad insofar as keeping his composure in the third round. All-in-all, I got precisely what I was expecting, which was a very evenly matched, competitive bout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    not too sure which way I am leaning on this one. I can see Rashad using his speedand explosive wrestling to stay away and take him down. However, I also could see him getting tagged and KTFO like Page did to Wandy.

    Gun to my head prediction: Rampage by tko early in rd 2

    Id say you hit the nail on the head.
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    [QUOTE=Mulletsoldier;2446483]Indeed - but it had nothing to do with maintaining a proper orthodox stance whatsoever (which Rashad would be, given he is right handed).

    His knees were bent to maximize explosiveness with the TD; his feet were narrow, with his lead foot far further in front than one would normally see with an orthodox stance; his body was tilted at the hips, with a straight back, and his elbows were near the thighs for full extension of the arm to grab hold of Rampage during the shot. In other words, he maintained a proper wrestling base with ready penetration step to either a) clinch against the fence or b) shoot in for the double leg TD - you know, exactly the game plan he executed.

    This was a wrestling stance, and that is what the other poster was alluding to: why Rashad was so incredibly low with a ready penetration step. Like so:

    378957276dLpZtp_ph.jpg

    Look familiar?



    He has quick hands, but his boxing base, if we are talking about orthodox boxing, is far worse than Rampage's - I think you may be confusing the speed of his footwork and his more dynamic striking for a "good base." In reality, Rampage's hand positioning, tucked chin and the closer and more diagonal positioning of his feet gives him a) a better boxing defense than Rashad and b) a better ability to counter, in particular with the lead left or right hook. Again, I think you are letting their respective speeds fool you slightly here.

    This is MMA, so overall, due to speed and athleticism, I may consider deeming Rashad the more "effective" striker "overall," but in terms of boxing fundamentals (what we are talking about) there is really no contest. So, if it is one of your bases, may be time to brush up! [/QUOTE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew732 View Post
    Be glad to have another sparring partner!
    If how little you know about boxing stances is an indication of your skill set, I would be happy to oblige.
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    There are about 0 good boxers in MMA.

    Andrew - pretty sure Mullet ate your weight in chicken yesterday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimberLakers View Post
    There are about 0 good boxers in MMA.

    Andrew - pretty sure Mullet ate your weight in chicken yesterday.
    How can you say that with a straight face with James Toney now in the talent pool
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimberLakers View Post
    There are about 0 good boxers in MMA.

    Andrew - pretty sure Mullet ate your weight in chicken yesterday.
    Have you seen Junior Dos Santos fight, TL? Out of all the available choices, I would say he has the most technically proficient boxing in all of MMA.

    But a traditional, orthodox stance is simply ineffective for MMA, as it leaves too much open (more difficult to check leg kicks, stuff a TD, etc.)

    And yes, I ate that much in chicken and unflavored rice cakes yesterday. Today, however, I am dying: I have not drunk any water or tasted anything with sodium in it for almost twenty-four hours.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Have you seen Junior Dos Santos fight, TL? Out of all the available choices, I would say he has the most technically proficient boxing in all of MMA.

    But a traditional, orthodox stance is simply ineffective for MMA, as it leaves too much open (more difficult to check leg kicks, stuff a TD, etc.)

    And yes, I ate that much in chicken and unflavored rice cakes yesterday. Today, however, I am dying: I have not drunk any water or tasted anything with sodium in it for almost twenty-four hours.
    I have seen him fight... Would agree that he is one of the best in the sport of MMA.

    Its not necessarily a BAD thing that none of the MMA guys can't box... because as you point out - only certain aspects of boxing are valuable in MMA (most notably kinetic leverage, feinting, head movement, etc)... but the stance is garbage - as is the defense (for the most part)...

    But of course the announcers will have you believe that guys like BJ Penn and Nate Diaz are "world class boxers" which makes me f*cking ... In a pure boxing match, those guys would get cleaned out by most mid level prospects.

    Before the MMA hordes start beaning on me - I'm also of the opinion that most boxers would get housed in an MMA contest as well.. It's just completely different games.

    Mullet... quit teasing me with your nutrient timing stuff and come give me a lesson on my thread. I'm tired of being fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolcomX311 View Post
    How can you say that with a straight face with James Toney now in the talent pool


    Love Toney... What a career that guy has had.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimberLakers View Post
    I have seen him fight... Would agree that he is one of the best in the sport of MMA.

    Its not necessarily a BAD thing that none of the MMA guys can't box... because as you point out - only certain aspects of boxing are valuable in MMA (most notably kinetic leverage, feinting, head movement, etc)... but the stance is garbage - as is the defense (for the most part)...

    But of course the announcers will have you believe that guys like BJ Penn and Nate Diaz are "world class boxers" which makes me f*cking ... In a pure boxing match, those guys would get cleaned out by most mid level prospects.

    Before the MMA hordes start beaning on me - I'm also of the opinion that most boxers would get housed in an MMA contest as well.. It's just completely different games.

    Mullet... quit teasing me with your nutrient timing stuff and come give me a lesson on my thread. I'm tired of being fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimberLakers View Post
    I have seen him fight... Would agree that he is one of the best in the sport of MMA.

    Its not necessarily a BAD thing that none of the MMA guys can't box... because as you point out - only certain aspects of boxing are valuable in MMA (most notably kinetic leverage, feinting, head movement, etc)... but the stance is garbage - as is the defense (for the most part)...

    But of course the announcers will have you believe that guys like BJ Penn and Nate Diaz are "world class boxers" which makes me f*cking ... In a pure boxing match, those guys would get cleaned out by most mid level prospects.

    Before the MMA hordes start beaning on me - I'm also of the opinion that most boxers would get housed in an MMA contest as well.. It's just completely different games.

    Mullet... quit teasing me with your nutrient timing stuff and come give me a lesson on my thread. I'm tired of being fat.
    I have heard Joe Rogan say that as well. But, keep in mind, he has also called Matt Hammil a world-class wrestler.

    And to validate your point, there is actually a video of A. Silva sparring at Freddie Roach's gym, and the awkwardness of his boxing is really shown against a more technically sound opponent, who is also unknown.
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    Freddie Roach, who has forgotten more about boxing than any of us will ever know, has praised both BJ and Anderson Silva's boxing. At first, he had a low opinion of Andy because of his performance in his gym, but he changed his stance after realizing he is not a "gym fighter."

    Also, Rog Nog has the best boxing in MMA. His years of training with the Cubans, easily the most technical boxers in the world, as well as his success in the Pan-Am games give him an impressive resume. He's the only fighter I've ever seen "tool" Dan Henderson in a fight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Freddie Roach, who has forgotten more about boxing than any of us will ever know, has praised both BJ and Anderson Silva's boxing. At first, he had a low opinion of Andy because of his performance in his gym, but he changed his stance after realizing he is not a "gym fighter."

    Also, Rog Nog has the best boxing in MMA. His years of training with the Cubans, easily the most technical boxers in the world, as well as his success in the Pan-Am games give him an impressive resume. He's the only fighter I've ever seen "tool" Dan Henderson in a fight.
    Personally, I would place JDS above Rog Nog in terms of both defense and offense. Rog Nog is obviously no slouch, though, being both a Brazilian national champion and placing 3rd at the Pan Ams.

    With that being said, however, JDS' recent emergence and the buzz surrounding the Brazilian national boxing team is that he has the potential to medal in the Olympics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Freddie Roach, who has forgotten more about boxing than any of us will ever know, has praised both BJ and Anderson Silva's boxing. At first, he had a low opinion of Andy because of his performance in his gym, but he changed his stance after realizing he is not a "gym fighter."

    Also, Rog Nog has the best boxing in MMA. His years of training with the Cubans, easily the most technical boxers in the world, as well as his success in the Pan-Am games give him an impressive resume. He's the only fighter I've ever seen "tool" Dan Henderson in a fight.
    Freddie Roach also has a vested interest in pimping Silva... i.e. training him once Silva gets even more bored with MMA than he already is. 10%... throw it in the bag money.

    Roach also said the same thing about Arlovsky, who got KTFO with a single (boxing) punch from Brett Rodgers (who also can't box for sh*t)... Roach has maybe 2 more years to train before his body completely shuts down. He's gotta get that paper.

    Not to say Silva is a BAD boxer... but he still would get dominated by a boxing prospect... Would last maybe 2 rounds with one of the Andre's (Ward, Dirrell)...
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    And Freddie Roach called BJ the best striker in MMA which was important to remember, and that was immediately before he was thoroughly out-boxed by GSP. I take his comments with a grain of salt, in that regard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    And Freddie Roach called BJ the best striker in MMA which was important to remember, and that was immediately before he was thoroughly out-boxed by GSP. I take his comments with a grain of salt, in that regard.
    Leave BJ out of this
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimberLakers View Post
    Freddie Roach also has a vested interest in pimping Silva... i.e. training him once Silva gets even more bored with MMA than he already is. 10%... throw it in the bag money.

    Roach also said the same thing about Arlovsky, who got KTFO with a single (boxing) punch from Brett Rodgers (who also can't box for sh*t)... Roach has maybe 2 more years to train before his body completely shuts down. He's gotta get that paper.

    Not to say Silva is a BAD boxer... but he still would get dominated by a boxing prospect... Would last maybe 2 rounds with one of the Andre's (Ward, Dirrell)...
    AA's problem is the chin and between the ears. He's looked amazing and like a B-level fighter depending on his confidence.

    I'm also not saying that Andy could be a legit force in boxing; I'm merely stating what has been said about his boxing skills. The difference between his boxing is that he understands and develops his range.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    And Freddie Roach called BJ the best striker in MMA which was important to remember, and that was immediately before he was thoroughly out-boxed by GSP. I take his comments with a grain of salt, in that regard.
    Right, and now he's training GSP.

    Roach has a great resume of fighters he's worked with after they've made it big (Tyson, B-Hop, Oscar, Moorer, IV, etc.)... but the only guys he's brought up (off the top of my head) is Pac Man and Khan.
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