UFC 105 Lesner vs. Carwin

bigwhiteguy29

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As much as I hate Lesner and like carwin I think carwin doesn't have good enough stand up. hes been hit before and doesnt have good head movement and stands right infront of someone. his wins were impressive but I think he will get caught on his feet not sat on.
 

bigwhiteguy29

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oh my god no edit button haha I mean 106!!!
 
AnthonyIOSOS

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I can't wait for the day Lesnar gets knocked the **** out! I have no idea who is going to win this fight, but I have my money on Carwin.
 
VolcomX311

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As much as I hate Lesner and like carwin I think carwin doesn't have good enough stand up. hes been hit before and doesnt have good head movement and stands right infront of someone. his wins were impressive but I think he will get caught on his feet not sat on.
As much as I tarzan swing from Lesnar's nuts, I'm not sure that Lesnar has displayed a technical stand up game. I don't "think" Carwin would get laid on, but then again, although holding someone is heavily dependent on the element of sheer body weight, but it also includes proper counter-leveraging and proper displacement of body weight. Considering Lesnar's wrestling background is more elite then Carwin's, though I don't see Lesnar treating Carwin like he treated Mir on the ground, I wouldn't be shocked out my brain if he did.

Carwin had a great collegiate background in wrestling as well. Carwin was a two time runner up for NCAA Division II HWT Wrestling National Championships (1996, 1997) and an NCAA Division II HWT Champion (1999). (Carwin was also a two time NCAA Division II Football All-American).

However, Brock was an NCAA Division I HWT Champ, which is a world of difference.
 

sonofsteven

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I can't wait for the day Lesnar gets knocked the **** out! I have no idea who is going to win this fight, but I have my money on Carwin.
You and me both brotha!!! :You_Rock_Emoticon:
I have been calling it for some time now and don't intend to stop - I would have taken Carwin over Cain(no disrespect to Cain) and I will continue to take Shane over the ManBearPig . :head:
 

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Lesnar will pound him IMO, Carwin got floored by Gonzaga, and Lesnar's lunchboxes will tko him
 
SemiBulimic

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You guys slam lesnar but he can only beat those put in front of him and thus far (with the exception of the first dodgy mir fight), he's done that. Yes i believe he has yet to be really tested but give the man his dues, he's done a good job so far. I personally hopes he continues to improve and confounds the critics who are just waiting for him to screw up like a bunch of hyenas waiting for a kill
 

sonofsteven

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You guys slam lesnar but he can only beat those put in front of him and thus far (with the exception of the first dodgy mir fight), he's done that. Yes i believe he has yet to be really tested but give the man his dues, he's done a good job so far. I personally hopes he continues to improve and confounds the critics who are just waiting for him to screw up like a bunch of hyenas waiting for a kill
I dont slam on him because I think he is talentless , I slam on him because immature douchebag who is does not really seem to know what real sportsmanship is .
 
Silver3CSRT8

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This is the fight I have been dying to see. This will be a good fight and I am with Lesnar all the way!
 
liquid

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I thought Carwin floored Gonzaga?
Gonzaga knocked him, and then got a take down.

Carwin ko'ed/floored Gonzaga for the win.

Lesnar and Carwin, hard to call, almost even money. Les does an advantage if he gets on top of Carwin though.
 
Mulletsoldier

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Lesnar will pound him IMO, Carwin got floored by Gonzaga, and Lesnar's lunchboxes will tko him
The reverse is true, as well: Carwin can KO any HW, and his 3XL gloves are no Louis Vitton purses themselves. Despite the fact both Lesnar and Carwin's footwork is messy, I like Carwin just "that" much more on the feet; however, that may not be enough to counter Lesnar's technical wrestling advantage.
 

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The reverse is true, as well: Carwin can KO any HW, and his 3XL gloves are no Louis Vitton purses themselves. Despite the fact both Lesnar and Carwin's footwork is messy, I like Carwin just "that" much more on the feet; however, that may not be enough to counter Lesnar's technical wrestling advantage.
I can see that wrestling being the deciding factor. When I said he got caught by Gonzaga, I was referencing his chin more than anything. Carwin most likely can KO Brock, however I dont think he gets the chance. Carwin is roughly going to be around the same weight as Herring, and Brock will be able to toss him around. I see Brock taking him down, then pounding him out. I give Carwin a 20-25% chance of a TKO/KO
 
bluegrass83

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When will they get fedor to come fight lesnar? Now that would be a good fight.
 

sonofsteven

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When will they get fedor to come fight lesnar? Now that would be a good fight.
If you hold your breath on this one , my friend we will never hear from you again . While it would be a GREAT fight , you must have missed out on the events surrounding the collapse of Affliction Promotions and the subsequent wave of UFC/Fedormania that ensued . Fedor is now a Strikeforce fighter and will likely remain as such for a painfully long time .:sick:
 
Mulletsoldier

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I can see that wrestling being the deciding factor. When I said he got caught by Gonzaga, I was referencing his chin more than anything. Carwin most likely can KO Brock, however I dont think he gets the chance. Carwin is roughly going to be around the same weight as Herring, and Brock will be able to toss him around. I see Brock taking him down, then pounding him out. I give Carwin a 20-25% chance of a TKO/KO
Well, the quality of weight between Herring and Carwin is quite different, particularly considering the base Carwin undoubtedly built during wrestling, so I doubt Brock would throw him around ala Herring. While Carwin's terrible angles and shuffle-step footwork are not sufficient against a competent striker, they should be adequate against Brock's own less-than-stellar technicality. As well, I simply do not think Brock was quite the stand-up KO power as Carwin. At any rate, he should still be able to use his wrestling to nullify any danger and score a GnP stoppage.
 
AnthonyIOSOS

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The reverse is true, as well: Carwin can KO any HW, and his 3XL gloves are no Louis Vitton purses themselves. Despite the fact both Lesnar and Carwin's footwork is messy, I like Carwin just "that" much more on the feet; however, that may not be enough to counter Lesnar's technical wrestling advantage.
I don't think Lesnar has any wrestling advantages. I have not seen any yet. Just a person who can take control with his size and stength. Once he is on top all he does is pound. I have never seen any skill yet. We will see what the future may hold.

Obviously a win is a win, no matter how he gets it.
 
Mulletsoldier

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I don't think Lesnar has any wrestling advantages. I have not seen any yet. Just a person who can take control with his size and stength. Once he is on top all he does is pound. I have never seen any skill yet. We will see what the future may hold.

Obviously a win is a win, no matter how he gets it.
Even if you can dismiss his pedigree - which you cannot, given that it is one of the most established in all of MMA - he has displayed technical skill on the ground. "Size and strength" alone do not keep a BJJ blackbelt's hips firmly cemented to the ground while controlling his posture in half-guard/side-mount - just does not happen. Does his considerable strength help to bridge the gap of his relative inexperience? Of course. Is it even remotely accurate to say he has not displayed wrestling technique? Absolutely not.
 
AnthonyIOSOS

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Even if you can dismiss his pedigree - which you cannot, given that it is one of the most established in all of MMA - he has displayed technical skill on the ground. "Size and strength" alone do not keep a BJJ blackbelt's hips firmly cemented to the ground while controlling his posture in half-guard/side-mount - just does not happen. Does his considerable strength help to bridge the gap of his relative inexperience? Of course. Is it even remotely accurate to say he has not displayed wrestling technique? Absolutely not.
Yes, you are correct. It is hard to give him credit or notice his positive strengths through his attitude. Next time I'll try focusing on his skills more than his attitude. I just hope this next fight is more entertaining!
 
VolcomX311

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I don't think Lesnar has any wrestling advantages.
If that's your "opinion," then more power to you, I can't hold having an opinion against you. However, here are the very brief "facts,"

Brock Lesnar = NCAA Division I HWT Wrestling National Champion.

Carwin = NCAA Division II HWT Wrestling National Champion.


That's the football equivalent of Lesnar having to have beaten teams like USC, Ohio State, Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon, Ole Miss, Virgina, Florida... etc and Carwin having to defeat football equivalent teams like Grand Valley State University, Glenville State, Carson-Newman State, Chowan College, Livingston College.... who? exactly. Brock reigned in a far more elite level of competition then Carwin in the world of collegiate wrestling and Brock's wrestling records were far more dominating (in spite of being in a superior division).

How much of their past carries over? I honestly couldn't tell you, but if Carwin carried over 100% of what he had in college and Brock carried over 75%, Brock would still be more dominate.

Can Carwin win? Hell yes in my opinion. Does Brock have a wrestling advantage? hell mutherphucken yes, and not in my opinion, but reason based on facts.

As Mullet answered, you can't steady a BJJ black belt on weight alone. There are intentional counter-leveraging you don't "see," and strategic weight displacement both offense and counter/defensively.

P.S. What Lesnar does as far as trying to bear down on the opponent is no different then what Hendo "attempted" to do on Anderson Silva and what GSP did to BJ Penn (with painful success), to Thiago, to Hughes... as non technical in comparison to BJJ as it seems, it's a wrestlers tactic.
 
VolcomX311

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Yes, you are correct. It is hard to give him credit or notice his positive strengths through his attitude. Next time I'll try focusing on his skills more than his attitude. I just hope this next fight is more entertaining!
No doubt Lesnar's actions were less then honorable and classy, but he didn't disrespect his other opponents the way he disrespected Mir. Mir brought it upon himself by talking head for a year and not for any pre-fight drama or colorful marketing, Mir was being a total ******* and people seem to fault Lesnar for acting like any human would after putting up with a year of that BS.

Also, from the get-go, MMA fans have discounted Brock as a WWE star with no relevant talent and he's been disregarded as a freak that possesses only size & strength. Off jump he knows the crowd has it in for him, so when they start booing because he punked Mir post fight, as Mir deserved, what's he going to do? Grovel.

No doubt I prefer class, respect, honor and sportsmanship between fighters, but this whole Mir thing is an extenuating circumstance. Mir ran his mouth about Lesnar every time a camera turned on in front of him and without cause. He made it personal by making Lesnar genuinely hate him by his own volition, not pre-fight or promotional/marketing drama purposes, which I understand, but Mir was just being a prick, so he got what he had coming.
 
AnthonyIOSOS

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If that's your "opinion," then more power to you, I can't hold having an opinion against you. However, here are the very brief "facts,"

Brock Lesnar = NCAA Division I HWT Wrestling National Champion.

Carwin = NCAA Division II HWT Wrestling National Champion.


That's the football equivalent of Lesnar having to have beaten teams like USC, Ohio State, Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon, Ole Miss, Virgina, Florida... etc and Carwin having to defeat football equivalent teams like Grand Valley State University, Glenville State, Carson-Newman State, Chowan College, Livingston College.... who? exactly. Brock reigned in a far more elite level of competition then Carwin in the world of collegiate wrestling and Brock's wrestling records were far more dominating (in spite of being in a superior division).

How much of their past carries over? I honestly couldn't tell you, but if Carwin carried over 100% of what he had in college and Brock carried over 75%, Brock would still be more dominate.

Can Carwin win? Hell yes in my opinion. Does Brock have a wrestling advantage? hell mutherphucken yes, and not in my opinion, but reason based on facts.

As Mullet answered, you can't steady a BJJ black belt on weight alone. There are intentional counter-leveraging you don't "see," and strategic weight displacement both offense and counter/defensively.

P.S. What Lesnar does as far as trying to bear down on the opponent is no different then what Hendo "attempted" to do on Anderson Silva and what GSP did to BJ Penn (with painful success), to Thiago, to Hughes... as non technical in comparison to BJJ as it seems, it's a wrestlers tactic.
I have already responded to mulletsoldier. My point is not that he has experience with wrestling; I just felt it is not shown much on the mat. Was just a personal opinion. As in my last post I said maybe its just me looking at all the negative sides of Lesnar and ignoring his actual skills.
 
VolcomX311

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P.S. I'm a little buzzed so if I'm coming off like a **** I apologize.


I hate Mir more then I like Lesnar, so that fight had to go the way it did. However, though I am a bigger fan of Lesnar as oppose to Carwin, I do respect him. Carwin was also two time all-american football, granted division II, it still reflects his general athleticism.
 
VolcomX311

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I have already responded to mulletsoldier. My point is not that he has experience with wrestling; I just felt it is not shown much on the mat. Was just a personal opinion. As in my last post I said maybe its just me looking at all the negative sides of Lesnar and ignoring his actual skills.
:cheers:

and I'm not saying Lesnar can't be beat by any means, just not by Mir :paranoid:
 
AnthonyIOSOS

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P.S. I'm slightly drunk so if I'm coming off like a **** I apologize.


I hate Mir more then I like Lesnar, so that fight had to go the way it did. However, though I am a bigger fan of Lesnar as oppose to Carwin, I do respect him. Carwin was also two time all-american football, granted division II, it still reflects his general athleticism.
Yea. Both are very athletic. Let's not forget Lesnar played a bit w/ the Vikings. His number at Combine were impressive. Both very athletic and hopefully the fight is good.
 
bigpapa

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When will they get fedor to come fight lesnar? Now that would be a good fight.
fedor signed with strikeforce...the next ultimate fighter is heavyweights so there should be some people coming out of there..and kimbo slice is in it this time..i really hope they pick him up and he fights lesnar so lesnar can beat the **** out of him
 
VolcomX311

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fedor signed with strikeforce...the next ultimate fighter is heavyweights so there should be some people coming out of there..and kimbo slice is in it this time..i really hope they pick him up and he fights lesnar so lesnar can beat the **** out of him
I don't think Kimbo would be seeing a Lesnar fight any time soon (or ever), IF he makes it to the UFC. As much as I didn't hate seeing Kimbo in MMA as most people did, I also recognize he has a lot, a lot, a lot to learn before becoming competitive in the UFC.


The more I thought about Kimbo's chances of developing into a truly effective fighter, the more I doubt his chances. I think he had too late of a start in MMA to compete with guys who either started MMA young or did some form of competitive martial arts in their youth (wrestling included). Truth be told I wish him well and actually hopes he does well, but..... :paranoid:
 

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Well, the quality of weight between Herring and Carwin is quite different, particularly considering the base Carwin undoubtedly built during wrestling, so I doubt Brock would throw him around ala Herring. While Carwin's terrible angles and shuffle-step footwork are not sufficient against a competent striker, they should be adequate against Brock's own less-than-stellar technicality. As well, I simply do not think Brock was quite the stand-up KO power as Carwin. At any rate, he should still be able to use his wrestling to nullify any danger and score a GnP stoppage.
I disagree with Brocks ko power. Look at his fights. He broke Herring's orbital bone a few seconds in, and Couture slipped the punch that put the fight on ice. At the end of the day, his lunchboxes have a lot of power and bad intentions behind them.

I agree that Carwin is exceptionally sloppy, and to me gets by more on sheer brute force and power than Brock. Carwins wrestling pedigree is not at Brock's level imo, and I think Brock will use that and as you said GnP him out.

The only hwy in the UFC I think could be itneresting with a bit more seasoning is Cain, as his overall game is impressive and is still young enough to make tremendous strides. However, his fight with Rothwell could be a dangerous one, as Rothwell cant be counted out
 
Mulletsoldier

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I disagree with Brocks ko power. Look at his fights. He broke Herring's orbital bone a few seconds in, and Couture slipped the punch that put the fight on ice. At the end of the day, his lunchboxes have a lot of power and bad intentions behind them.

I agree that Carwin is exceptionally sloppy, and to me gets by more on sheer brute force and power than Brock. Carwins wrestling pedigree is not at Brock's level imo, and I think Brock will use that and as you said GnP him out.

The only hwy in the UFC I think could be itneresting with a bit more seasoning is Cain, as his overall game is impressive and is still young enough to make tremendous strides. However, his fight with Rothwell could be a dangerous one, as Rothwell cant be counted out
I agree that Brock has massive power, AE. I was just saying that, in my estimation, he does not have quite the stand-up KO power as Carwin. While Gonzaga has never been accused of having a steel chin, the shot that Carwin knocked Gonzaga out with was even more innocuous than the Brock v., Couture shot. (You also have to remember Brock caught Randy directly behind the temple, which as we have seen time and time again - Serra/GSP I, for example, is an "off button".) While I think Brock more effectively uses his leverage for GnP purposes, I would give the stand-up power edge to Carwin.
 
bigpapa

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I don't think Kimbo would be seeing a Lesnar fight any time soon (or ever), IF he makes it to the UFC. As much as I didn't hate seeing Kimbo in MMA as most people did, I also recognize he has a lot, a lot, a lot to learn before becoming competitive in the UFC.


The more I thought about Kimbo's chances of developing into a truly effective fighter, the more I doubt his chances. I think he had too late of a start in MMA to compete with guys who either started MMA young or did some form of competitive martial arts in their youth (wrestling included). Truth be told I wish him well and actually hopes he does well, but..... :paranoid:
o definately he wouldnt see a lesnar fight for a long time..but i mean they have to find somebody that can give him like a real challenge...

but hey...mariusz pudzianowski signed on with a european fight league...that would be cool to see in a couple years.
 

bigwhiteguy29

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I think lesner is better on the feet and ground. hes to quick with his lunging jabs and cross. someone needs to land a knee when the other guy is shooting. this could be a good fight but it might be full of wrestling.

these are the biggest boys in the UFC both 265. how much does carwin cut to make weight or does he even cut? lesner cuts around 25-30?
 
Jessep76

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The reverse is true, as well: Carwin can KO any HW, and his 3XL gloves are no Louis Vitton purses themselves. Despite the fact both Lesnar and Carwin's footwork is messy, I like Carwin just "that" much more on the feet; however, that may not be enough to counter Lesnar's technical wrestling advantage.
:18: Louis Vitton purses classic
 
Jessep76

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Get ready for another patented Tito grave digging mime. Coleman better hit the roids and bring someone else's pee to the test. Do they do blood tests or could someone actually get away with that The Program style...
 

bigwhiteguy29

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he should give them randlmens blood...........
 
Jessep76

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The Heat and Hazelett are back and fighting each other on this card. SWEEET.
 

bigwhiteguy29

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dude i hate the heat! he stole a decision over nick diaz!!!! BS!!! also hazellett is legit along with tamdon mCcory!!!
 

bigwhiteguy29

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pretty good interview dude. he has some good points but i wouldnt want anyone to really get in a crazy slug fight with lesner. he could get dropped but sometthing tells me he would still be standing or he wouldnt totally be KO'ed it would go to the ground and he would recover. i think hes pretty tough. all his earlky title shot bullsh!t aside hes done great. i cant spell when im drunk.
 
VolcomX311

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pretty good interview dude. he has some good points but i wouldnt want anyone to really get in a crazy slug fight with lesner. he could get dropped but sometthing tells me he would still be standing or he wouldnt totally be KO'ed it would go to the ground and he would recover. i think hes pretty tough. all his earlky title shot bullsh!t aside hes done great. i cant spell when im drunk.
LOL!!
 
Jessep76

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dude i hate the heat! he stole a decision over nick diaz!!!! BS!!! also hazellett is legit along with tamdon mCcory!!!
That may be but anyone who loses a tooth in the octogon is ok in my book. And he's from North Hollywood GEEETOOOO
The Hazellet/Mccrory fight was badass. Mccrory will do fine in strikeforce/dream/WWF or wherever he ends up.
 

bigwhiteguy29

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i think hes gonig to stick out in UFC. fight a couple prelims fights
 
Jessep76

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According to junkie they were. You know why right? MY THEORY his last televised fight he called out Dana White for not playing the song he requested, as a joke I assume. I could feel Dana's reaction as hahaha........FIRED!
 

bigwhiteguy29

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both have been resigned the very next day due to people bitching which is a good thing. i hate TL tho more than dana.
 
Jessep76

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I'm surprised Almeida dropped down in weight he looked good against grove. Should be a good match for Fitch.
 
Tomahawk88

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Man I love watching McRory fight. It is so crazy bc not even joking if u saw him on the street u would think what a nerd but he has had some crazy fights(all on prelims). How many fights has he had in the UFC already?
 
andrew732

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My take is that Carwin's overall stand up is better but Lesnar is stronger and a better wrestler, should make an interesting fight.
 

bigwhiteguy29

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i think there standup is around the same.
 

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