Who's excited about Mark Coleman's Return??

[flobot]

I AM!

And as a MMA forum in a bodybuilding website, you guys should too!

That guy's a Monster! hehehehe.

 

[Rodja]

I wonder what he will look like at 205.

 

[flobot]

I've always thought that he has the best body in MMA. Ken Shamrock in his prime would also be a runner up.

It's the damn cardio that kills these big guys though..

 

[Rodja]

There are bigger fighters with better cardio, it's just that his physique is too inplated for his frame.

 

[bla55]

He's a phisical freak, it's unbelieveable. How someone gets to that phisique and still trains hard for MMA, is just something I can't grasp!

But I think it'll be a fun fight. We'll see probably the strongest 205 ever, wouldn't you guys say? Shogun will have his hands full. We'll see if he hasn't lost a step though, hope not.

 

[Rodja]

He's a phisical freak, it's unbelieveable. How someone gets to that phisique and still trains hard for MMA, is just something I can't grasp!

But I think it'll be a fun fight. We'll see probably the strongest 205 ever, wouldn't you guys say? Shogun will have his hands full. We'll see if he hasn't lost a step though, hope not.

Strength and size are not synonymous. If Mauricio is close to his old self, then Coleman will look worse than Rampage did.

 

[jas123]

Strength and size are not synonymous. If Mauricio is close to his old self, then Coleman will look worse than Rampage did.

What's your take on his knee issues? It seems like when a fighter has a lot of surgeries and problems with a knee that they never fully get that spring and explosiveness back. I think of Tito. Do you agree with this?

JZ is in the same boat.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

I personally think he is washed up like Shamrock, Tito, and Chuck Liddell. He used to be one of the greats though!

 

[jas123]

I personally think he is washed up like Shamrock, Tito, and Chuck Liddell. He used to be one of the greats though!

Why would you think he's washed up? Shamrock, come on. Some of the posts around here are just embarrassing. Shogun had one bad fight on a bum knee against an under-rated (at the time) Forrest. It was a pretty even too until Shogun's gas ran out.

 

[Rodja]

What's your take on his knee issues? It seems like when a fighter has a lot of surgeries and problems with a knee that they never fully get that spring and explosiveness back. I think of Tito. Do you agree with this?

JZ is in the same boat.

Tito didn't have his knees fixed for a long time and it was his back that really debilatated him. I think he came back too quickly and didn't let it heal properly. He has an explosive, dynamic style that puts much stress on the joints. I hope he took the rehab more slowly. He is still a young fighter and I fully expect him to come back as the old Mauricio.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Why would you think he's washed up? Shamrock, come on. Some of the posts around here are just embarrassing. Shogun had one bad fight on a bum knee against an under-rated (at the time) Forrest. It was a pretty even too until Shogun's gas ran out.

Coleman used to be great. He hasn't fought since 2006 when he lost to Fedor. Now he is going to fight one of the top heavyweights and I don't think he has a chance.

 

[Rodja]

Coleman used to be great. He hasn't fought since 2006 when he lost to Fedor. Now he is going to fight one of the top heavyweights and I don't think he has a chance.

Mauricio is a LHW, not a HW; their first "fight" was at HW, but this will be at LHW.

 

[flobot]

He's beaten Shogun before (I don't care if Shogun just landed badly on his arm that time. That was a TKO clearly the result of a Takedown,) and he lost only by submissions to one of the finest grapplers in the world (Fedor.) In recent times only Cro Cop was able to knock him out.

This guy's also won the Pride 2000 OW Grand Prix, which is !4! fights in One night.

I think he'll have a good chance against Shogun. I don't think Shogun's striking ability is anywhere near Cro Cop's (in his prime when he fought Coleman..)

 

[Rodja]

He's beaten Shogun before (I don't care if Shogun just landed badly on his arm that time. That was a TKO clearly the result of a Takedown,) and he lost only by submissions to one of the finest grapplers in the world (Fedor.) In recent times only Cro Cop was able to knock him out.

This guy's also won the Pride 2000 OW Grand Prix, which is !4! fights in One night.

I think he'll have a good chance against Shogun. I don't think Shogun's striking ability is anywhere near Cro Cop's (in his prime when he fought Coleman..)

It was 3 fights in 1 night; the first round was several months before the final. MMA is vastly different now from where it was at in 2000 plus, he has the easiest road to the GP title that year (Shoji is a fat LHW, Fujita threw in the towel at the beginning of their fight and Igor was gassed by the title the finals began). Shogun was able to withstand the ground attack of Arona and Minotoro, who are much more accomplished grapplers than Coleman.

This fight really depends on the health/status of Mauricio. If he's right, then it will not end well for Coleman.

 

[robdog]

Any olympic wrestler (he placed 7th in 92) and former NCAA champ is a very accomplished grappler. He has the best double leg in the history of the sport. He certainly doesnt have a submission offense, but his defense is good. He's only been subbed by Nog and Fedor. We all know the Takada fight was a work. I agree that a healthy Shogun should smash him, but you cant count Coleman out, especially in a cage. He showed a lot of heart during the Fedor massacre, and is far from a shot fighter like Shamrock. The man pioneered GnP and IMO deserves mad respect.

 

[Rodja]

Any olympic wrestler (he placed 7th in 92) and former NCAA champ is a very accomplished grappler. He has the best double leg in the history of the sport. He certainly doesnt have a submission offense, but his defense is good. He's only been subbed by Nog and Fedor. We all know the Takada fight was a work. I agree that a healthy Shogun should smash him, but you cant count Coleman out, especially in a cage. He showed a lot of heart during the Fedor massacre, and is far from a shot fighter like Shamrock. The man pioneered GnP and IMO deserves mad respect.

I agree. Like I said a few months back, I place Coleman amongst the most influential fighters in MMA.

 

[bla55]

Strength and size are not synonymous. If Mauricio is close to his old self, then Coleman will look worse than Rampage did.

True, but Coleman has one of the best mix of the two. I'd say Cheick Congo like if I'd reference to anyone these days (except his height).

But the takedowns he used to pull on the guys he used to force it to... Well, someone just half strong just could not pull those. He's taken down some huge dudes and he has done that over and over and over, many fights, many times on each ones of those.

With all that said, I'd still side with Shogun if he's fully healthy. I give Griffin credit for the win but it was still on a time where he just wasn't himself and for an error, because that fight belong to him, if it was up to the judges I think Shogun would've won. But no excuses on MMA so I'll just say that I think Shogun will be the one comming out victorious on this one.

 

[robdog]

True, but Coleman has one of the best mix of the two. I'd say Cheick Congo like if I'd reference to anyone these days (except his height).

But the takedowns he used to pull on the guys he used to force it to... Well, someone just half strong just could not pull those. He's taken down some huge dudes and he has done that over and over and over, many fights, many times on each ones of those.

With all that said, I'd still side with Shogun if he's fully healthy. I give Griffin credit for the win but it was still on a time where he just wasn't himself and for an error, because that fight belong to him, if it was up to the judges I think Shogun would've won. But no excuses on MMA so I'll just say that I think Shogun will be the one comming out victorious on this one.

Not no nitpick, but his strength was/is much different than that of Kongo. Coleman was much more powerful. I would compare it to someone like Carwin.

 

[jas123]

Coleman used to be great. He hasn't fought since 2006 when he lost to Fedor. Now he is going to fight one of the top heavyweights and I don't think he has a chance.

We were talking about Shogun so I thought your post was referring to him. Yeah, Coleman's probably done. I don't think he'll have a good shot (ie double leg) at all in this fight. He's had recent injuries, and he won't be free to use whatever chemicals he wants now.

 

[bla55]

Not no nitpick, but his strength was/is much different than that of Kongo. Coleman was much more powerful. I would compare it to someone like Carwin.

True, but Kongo has a very good deal of strength for his size / weight, which is why I thought it was a somewhat good comparisson. If you look at Coleman right now you'd probably not believe he's a LHW.

 

[robdog]

True, but Kongo has a very good deal of strength for his size / weight, which is why I thought it was a somewhat good comparisson. If you look at Coleman right now you'd probably not believe he's a LHW.

Havent seen any recent pics of him and hes never fought at lhw before. God knows what he will look like come fight time.

 

[bla55]

Just check out UFC.com and there's a video about his trainning camp. Of course, that won't show his strength, only his body, but knowing him I'd say he's looking on a really good track to this fight.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I am honestly much more excited to see Shogun.

 

[AE14]

at this point in their respective careers, Coleman will have to wrestle, gnp and lnp to securer a win. He will also need to be very careful as if he gets careless Shogun will sub him. I dont see it going further than a minute or 2 into rd 2 with a shogun sub victory.

Now, Hendo v. Franklin I am totally torn about. However, at the end of the day I will say Hendo by UD, as I think his wrestling and grinding style will wear Franklin down.

O am also interested to see Kang in the cage. A little fresh blood at 185 is a good thing, as Bisping is not the answer to Anderson (hell, neither is Kang)

 

[robdog]

We were talking about Shogun so I thought your post was referring to him. Yeah, Coleman's probably done. I don't think he'll have a good shot (ie double leg) at all in this fight. He's had recent injuries, and he won't be free to use whatever chemicals he wants now.

Referring to your last sentence, the same goes for Shogun.

 

[flobot]

Odds right now I think are something like -300 shogun, +250 coleman. I don't think it should be that far..

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Coleman did better than I thought, but he was gassed by the end of round 1.

 

[AE14]

I was not impressed by Shogun, but he fights Liddell in May or April now I believe UFC 97

WTF Rampage v. Jardine?

 

[bla55]

Mark Coleman looked horrible. He just looked decent because Shogun looked almost as bad as him.

What a horrible fight. Both gased in the end of the 1st round without much reason for that.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Mark Coleman looked horrible. He just looked decent because Shogun looked almost as bad as him.

What a horrible fight. Both gased in the end of the 1st round without much reason for that.

I was not happy with many of the fights except for the Davis/Lytle fight. The others were a little boring compared to UFC 92.

I can't wait for BJ/GSP. That will be a fight for the ages.

 

[Condition1]

I don't think April is enough time for Shogun. He looked horrible, he cannot stand and take shots like that against a 205er not named Coleman. There were some flashes of his old self, we'll just have to wait and see.

I hope Coleman retires.

 

[flobot]

The 44 year old dude put up a Good Fight. Props to him. A true legend and Still has one of the better bodies in MMA (If you look at it from a bodybuilding POV.)

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

I think shogun is terrible and would love to see chuck K.o. him

 

[flobot]

I can imagine GSP taking down BJ continously like the first fight. If he stands against BJ there's a chance he'll be KO'ed. BJ might be a BJJ wiz but his punches pack a wallop too. There's no passing the guard etc. from GSP either because he won't be able to pass BJ's guard. His best hope is GnP or a lucky kick/knee/superman punch.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

There's no passing the guard etc. from GSP either because he won't be able to pass BJ's guard. His best hope is GnP or a lucky kick/knee/superman punch.

You think so?

 

[flobot]

Yep, no doubt in my mind. And the only reason BJ's takedown defense is no good in the first place is because he knows he can function well in the ground whether top or bottom. If their last fight was a 'Royce Gracie' type of fight w/ no time limits. BJ would've smashed GSP's face to oblivion even more.

GSP's brainy though so if he doesn't get caught w/ anything I give him another victory by decision.

 

[robdog]

Yep, no doubt in my mind. And the only reason BJ's takedown defense is no good in the first place is because he knows he can function well in the ground whether top or bottom. If their last fight was a 'Royce Gracie' type of fight w/ no time limits. BJ would've smashed GSP's face to oblivion even more.

GSP's brainy though so if he doesn't get caught w/ anything I give him another victory by decision.

BJ's td defense is no good? BJ has incredible TD defense (see his one legged sprawl in Hughes #2). And if there were no time limits BJ would have gassed and been owned. His cardio is no good, not his td defense.

 

[AE14]

I agree in the past that BJ's tank dies quick, I just wonder how it is now. He is a much more motviated fighter. Just look at the sherk fight. He was still going strong when he finished it.

I do think GSP will out work him though. My feeling is, that either BJ catches him early , or GSP works a ud after outworking him late

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

I personally think this is BJ's fight. He has a much more determined mindset and tons of motivation from pute hatred. I think BJ is more motivated by dislike than any other UFC fighter. He has proven in his last few fights that he has his cardio on point and I think he can go the distance if needed this time. That being said, GSP is one of the best as well and I am excited to see a bloody fight. Especially since the last UFC was boring.

 

[robdog]

I agree in the past that BJ's tank dies quick, I just wonder how it is now. He is a much more motviated fighter. Just look at the sherk fight. He was still going strong when he finished it.

I do think GSP will out work him though. My feeling is, that either BJ catches him early , or GSP works a ud after outworking him late

To BJ's credit, the Sherk fight was basically a boxing match. BJ has one of the best jabs in MMA, and he used it very well in that fight. However, that type of fight is not nearly as grueling as one that has many transitions from striking to grappling. I think GSP can keep a very high pace that Penn wont be able to maintain.

 

[Brother]

X2....Bj can knock his ass out at the same time...later rounds Bj will be sucking air and punches from the top. Bj needs to end it as fast as possible. Past 3 rounds and GSP will punish him I think.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Yep, no doubt in my mind. And the only reason BJ's takedown defense is no good in the first place is because he knows he can function well in the ground whether top or bottom.

BJ's TD defense is world-class. His flexibility-based TD defense contends with GSP's athleticism-based TD defense, though I would give the edge to GSP. Not sure what you were aiming at there.

Also, what is your justification for being so positive that GSP will not pass BJ's guard? Ground game does not = only BJJ. Serra's BJJ, IMO, is at least comparable to BJ's and it was a complete non-factor in GSP/Serra II [BJ's guard is admittedly better, though].

If their last fight was a 'Royce Gracie' type of fight w/ no time limits. BJ would've smashed GSP's face to oblivion even more.

Huh? No offense, but did you watch the last fight? GSP handily lost the first round, but if the fight had no limits BJ would have vomited from exhaustion.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

we all know these 2 are great at what they do. their weaknesses are prolly better than others strengths. I think something really stupid is gonig to happen

 

[flobot]

By ' no takedown defense,' what I meant was that he doesn't care if he gets taken down to the ground because he's all the confidence in the world whether he's on top or bottom.

I agree that his cardio's not as strong as GSP's. If he works as hard as GSP in this fight training there's no doubt in my mind that he wins. I love GSP because I'm Canadian but I really admire BJ's natural skills and mindset. GSP's a complete fighter no doubt but he's fabricated himself to be that good. BJ almost beat him training half-ass and surfing. If a naturally talented fighter like BJ 'fabricates' himself to train as hard as GSP then he'll win. If he takes it easy again training then he'll lose but not by submission or KO.

It's funny though how BJ accuses GSP of steroids just because GSP has better cardio lol. Did he have any proof at all? I bet some of the UFC fighters lists "Asthma" as their sickness just like a Lot of Olympians so they could chug some salbutamol and open up their normal airways.

 

[chaser103]

He is washed-up! Time to retire.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

By ' no takedown defense,' what I meant was that he doesn't care if he gets taken down to the ground because he's all the confidence in the world whether he's on top or bottom.

BJ's confidence is unfortunately not a deciding factor in the fight; his confidence and his ability in either situation is not the same. While BJ is confident on the bottom, you had beter believe he would prefer it stays standing. If the fight goes to the ground, GSP will easily control him and nullify sub attempts from BJ's guard.

I agree that his cardio's not as strong as GSP's.

"Not as strong"? That is like comparing the Canadian Army to the American Army by saying, "It is not as strong"! A better term is that they are incomparable.

If he works as hard as GSP in this fight training there's no doubt in my mind that he wins. I love GSP because I'm Canadian but I really admire BJ's natural skills and mindset. GSP's a complete fighter no doubt but he's fabricated himself to be that good. BJ almost beat him training half-ass and surfing. If a naturally talented fighter like BJ 'fabricates' himself to train as hard as GSP then he'll win. If he takes it easy again training then he'll lose but not by submission or KO.

How so? BJ has always worked on his skill-set, simply not his cardiovascular capacity. It is not as if increased training is going to 'fabricate' BJ Penn a new skill-set. If you look at the progression of each fighter since Penn/GSP I, there is really no comparison whatsoever. GSP has advanced much more since that fight.

 

[flobot]

I don't like the analogy regarding the two armies. Our army is small but competent and we have proudly accomplished much with what little we have even when we're fighting against the odds. (Search Juno Beach as one example...WE were the only ones that accomplished our mission objectives on D-day on a beach as deadly as Omaha.) (But you're Entirely Right. Although we have universal health care here and you don't. Seems like a better deal to me.)

Regardless of how much GSP works on his stand up I can't see him dominating BJ there. It'll take one solid hit to knock GSP down or out. I can't see the same happening to BJ.

You're right that he'd prefer to stand and fight but all I'm saying is I don't see GSP doing Anything but (your words nullifying sub attempts. That is, unless BJ's cardio runs out then I see a GnP finish.

So, care to wager? I say BJ Penn wins in Round 1. We can bet supplements like I did that time w/ somewhatgifted.

BJ's confidence is unfortunately not a deciding factor in the fight; his confidence and his ability in either situation is not the same. While BJ is confident on the bottom, you had beter believe he would prefer it stays standing. If the fight goes to the ground, GSP will easily control him and nullify sub attempts from BJ's guard.



"Not as strong"? That is like comparing the Canadian Army to the American Army by saying, "It is not as strong"! A better term is that they are incomparable.



How so? BJ has always worked on his skill-set, simply not his cardiovascular capacity. It is not as if increased training is going to 'fabricate' BJ Penn a new skill-set. If you look at the progression of each fighter since Penn/GSP I, there is really no comparison whatsoever. GSP has advanced much more since that fight.

 

[Rodja]

I don't like the analogy regarding the two armies. Our army is small but competent and we have proudly accomplished much with what little we have even when we're fighting against the odds. (Search Juno Beach as one example...WE were the only ones that accomplished our mission objectives on D-day on a beach as deadly as Omaha.) (But you're Entirely Right. Although we have universal health care here and you don't. Seems like a better deal to me.)

Regardless of how much GSP works on his stand up I can't see him dominating BJ there. It'll take one solid hit to knock GSP down or out. I can't see the same happening to BJ.

You're right that he'd prefer to stand and fight but all I'm saying is I don't see GSP doing Anything but (your words nullifying sub attempts. That is, unless BJ's cardio runs out then I see a GnP finish.

So, care to wager? I say BJ Penn wins in Round 1. We can bet supplements like I did that time w/ somewhatgifted.

I guess you didn't know that Mullet is also Canadian.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I don't like the analogy regarding the two armies. Our army is small but competent and we have proudly accomplished much with what little we have even when we're fighting against the odds. (Search Juno Beach as one example...WE were the only ones that accomplished our mission objectives on D-day on a beach as deadly as Omaha.) (But you're Entirely Right. Although we have universal health care here and you don't. Seems like a better deal to me.)

Regardless of how much GSP works on his stand up I can't see him dominating BJ there. It'll take one solid hit to knock GSP down or out. I can't see the same happening to BJ.

You're right that he'd prefer to stand and fight but all I'm saying is I don't see GSP doing Anything but (your words nullifying sub attempts. That is, unless BJ's cardio runs out then I see a GnP finish.

So, care to wager? I say BJ Penn wins in Round 1. We can bet supplements like I did that time w/ somewhatgifted.

You could have tried harder to be more utterly incorrect in every single aspect of your discussion, but it would have been difficult.

Not only did GSP dominate Penn standing up, he took him down and passed his guard at will.

 

[flobot]

Damnit...Yeah..Damn, oh well, at least he's Canadian hehehehe