[elscotto]

it seems the odds are stacked against the natural but i think experience and his conditioning will see him thru, but lesnar is a beast wit heavy hands could be a good fight but not really the greatest fight in mma history like all the adverts are saying any thoughts?

[ryaroberts]

if randy loses then UFC loses. the reputation of UFC will go down the drain. im pretty sure since he is "one" of the faces of the UFC that they are hoping randy wins. they have already lost a vast majority of their top fighters to other companies. the ufc isnt as good as it was a few years back. a lot of top notch fighters are not there or are no longer in their prime. they are no more "big names" out there to watch and excite anymore. chuck is starting to fall apart. i think hes lost 3 outta last 4 fights. if randy loses i only see the UFC going further down hill.

[Reaper329]

actually I think Dana would love to see Randy completely dominated. He is looking for a heavyweight he can build around and Lesnar is a marketing dream. He knows how to sell himself, for good or bad, and if he dominates Couture (which is very likely) then all of a sudden he is an MMA superstar

[ryaroberts]

its about credibility. if randy loses (who has fought many many good fights) they have no credibility to mma. if a nobody walks in with very little skill and just sits and pushes randy around b/c of his size it doesnt show the talent of the UFC. i do not see lesnar as a marketing tool. hes a nobody with nobody skills. you saw how easily he got submitted to a bjj fighter. i do not think dana wants to see randy lose. its all about watching legit real fighters compete and show of their talents and perform at the highest level. i do not see lesnar as the "highest level" of competition. you cant market someone with no fighting experience.

[Mulletsoldier]

Originally Posted by ryaroberts

if randy loses then UFC loses. the reputation of UFC will go down the drain. im pretty sure since he is "one" of the faces of the UFC that they are hoping randy wins. they have already lost a vast majority of their top fighters to other companies. the ufc isnt as good as it was a few years back. a lot of top notch fighters are not there or are no longer in their prime. they are no more "big names" out there to watch and excite anymore. chuck is starting to fall apart. i think hes lost 3 outta last 4 fights. if randy loses i only see the UFC going further down hill.

Huh? Dana hopes for the exact opposite to happen, or he would not have made this fight. The vast majority of UFC-specific fans, brought in by the TUF-era, do not know nor care about overall MMA credibility. Brock is a transcendent figure, in that he has charisma, he is massive, he is athletic, and brings crossover fame from the WWE - Dana signed him hoping he would topple some of the Top HWs.

[Mulletsoldier]

Originally Posted by ryaroberts

its about credibility. if randy loses (who has fought many many good fights) they have no credibility to mma. if a nobody walks in with very little skill and just sits and pushes randy around b/c of his size it doesnt show the talent of the UFC. i do not see lesnar as a marketing tool. hes a nobody with nobody skills. you saw how easily he got submitted to a bjj fighter. i do not think dana wants to see randy lose. its all about watching legit real fighters compete and show of their talents and perform at the highest level. i do not see lesnar as the "highest level" of competition. you cant market someone with no fighting experience.

No offense, but do you watch MMA? Have you seen a UFC event? I am not trying to be derogatory, but your opinion of the UFC seems disconnected with reality.

People wish to see powerful, strong, and explosive athletes. The segments of Dana's market who think in the way you are expressing are few and far between; mostly relegated to forums such as this one. The average MMA fan does not know nor care about talent - it is for this reason they boo two BJJ practitioners who are not throwing punches.

Of course Dana wants to see Lesnar crush Randy, or this match would not have been made.

[ryaroberts]

been watching since 03'. seen every ppv event since then. i do agree that most fans do not understand nor care about talent. you brought up a good point about them "booing two bjj practitioners". me personally i appreciate the grappling/submission much more than a punch. this match happend b/c randy had no one else to fight. the only person he wanted to fight was fedor and that wasnt going to happen. he left b/c he was getting screwed out of money. when randy won against tim he got paid less than when chuck lost to rampage. thats why he left. now that hes back there are only new faces for him to fight.

[Mulletsoldier]

Awesome, so you have seen every crowd for the past 3-5 years boo any two fighters who dare play a technical ground game? People do not want to see:

legit real fighters compete and show of their talents and perform at the highest level.

As sad as that is for me to say, it is by far the case. Brock is a 285lb former NCAA Div I wrestler with a marketable personality and crossover market segments from the WWE - a segment which Dana is very, very clearly marketing towards. He is a marketing dream (rightfully or wrongfully).

[flobot]

I'm w/ Mulletsoldier in this one.

Lesnar is Not a Kimbo SLice if that's what you're thinking Ryaroberts. That guy is an Exceptional Wrestler, about the same level or better than Randy Couture's. Better than Koscheck's. And his hands are heavy, seeing how he made Mir topple with one or two hits.

If Randy loses, it's OK because Lesnar is just as if not more accomplished a wrestler than Randy. If Mir (Black Belt in BJJ) loses that would've been unacceptable because Lesnar isn't a BJJ expert.

Edit: It would be a good match I think with Randy's great boxing skills vs. Lesnar's heavy hands. 2 wrestlers of the same level fighting tend to end up striking.

[jas123]

This fight is a win-win for the UFC. It should do big numbers first of all. If Couture wins, he's built up and can handle a huge, accomplished wrestler. If Brock wins, he positioned to be the next superstar with a recognizable name and legit wrestling cred.

Brock's new, but has some great credentials.

UFC loses cred? If you mean the sport in general, I get what you're going for (don't necessarily agree). But if you mean the UFC specifically, who has more cred than them? EXC's gone, strikeforce is a good but small promotion, affliction is on shakey financial ground as is Dream, and Sengoku is sort of blah in terms of quality fights.

[Reaper329]

rya I hate to say that you have it all backwards. Dana and the UFC cant lose. Brock looked dominant against Mir, before making a rookie mistake, which was expected by many. Against Herring, he dominated a solid fighter with a lot of experience. Should he beat Randy, he flys into the marketing stratosphere. As was said here by Mullet, Brock hits quite a few different markets for the UFC, and he sells himself exceptionally well, I guess being in the WWE paid off for him.

He is a very skilled athlete, who is still learning. However, his natural skills, size and strength should get him through

[elscotto]

i have a feeling that dana is trying to make the next superstar at a legends expence and if dana gets his way and gets fans to cross over from wwe to ufc.then look out have u seen how many fools watch wwe but it will also bring in even more posers

[jas123]

Originally Posted by elscotto

i have a feeling that dana is trying to make the next superstar at a legends expence

It wouldn't be the first time.

Shamrock-Franklin
Shamrock-Tito II to rebuild Tito's legacy
Gracie-Hughes
Coleman-Brock (Coleman got injured)
Coleman-Shogun (pending)

In the future:
Chuck-??????

[Rodja]

Originally Posted by ryaroberts

if randy loses then UFC loses. the reputation of UFC will go down the drain. im pretty sure since he is "one" of the faces of the UFC that they are hoping randy wins. they have already lost a vast majority of their top fighters to other companies. the ufc isnt as good as it was a few years back. a lot of top notch fighters are not there or are no longer in their prime. they are no more "big names" out there to watch and excite anymore. chuck is starting to fall apart. i think hes lost 3 outta last 4 fights. if randy loses i only see the UFC going further down hill.

Do you realize how bad this makes you sound? Yeah, I am bored everytime Wand, GSP, Rampage, BJ, etc fight. Seriously, do you think that MMA sucks now that Chuck has been exposed?

[Reaper329]

There are still so many guys out there that are at such a high level. In just the UFC (in addition to Rodja's mentions)
Anderson
Alves
Forrest (I hate to admit that)
Miguel Torres etc....


I wpuld have said Filho, until last week. yikes