UFC 89 discussion

Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. Registered User
    Alexander's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Fedor over Lindland in under 4 minutes
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5,068
    Rep Power
    2648

    UFC 89 discussion


    The card:

    Main Card Bouts:
    -Michael Bisping vs. Chris Leben
    -Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou (#8 Light Heavyweight in the World)* vs. Luiz Cane
    -Keith Jardine (#10 Light Heavyweight in the World)* vs. Brandon Vera
    -Marcus Davis vs. Paul Kelly
    -Paul Taylor vs. Chris Lytle

    Preliminary Bouts:
    -Akihiro Gono vs. Dan Hardy
    -David Baron vs. Jim Miller
    -Shane Carwin vs. Neil Wain
    -Jess Liaudin vs. David Bielkheden
    -Sammy Schiavo vs. Per Eklund
    -Sam Stout vs. Terry Etim

    Thoughts??

    I'm taking Bisping by 3rd rd tko, Cane by GnP tko, Vera by ko, Davis by ko, and Taylor by ko. Another KO festival prediction, nothing new. I imagine Lytle will take Taylor down and handle him, but I'd like to see some of Taylor's lightning hands, and Lytle isn't scared to bang. If Vera looks like he did at his debut at 205, he's done, but I think we'll see a different Vera. Looking forward to it especially since its free.

  2. Registered User
    Alexander's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Fedor over Lindland in under 4 minutes
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5,068
    Rep Power
    2648

    Sh*t, I just remembered, Rob, you owe me 50 bucks. Lets go double or nothing??
  3. Registered User
    robdog's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    773
    Rep Power
    474

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
    Sh*t, I just remembered, Rob, you owe me 50 bucks. Lets go double or nothing??
    Ya I was gonna pm u about that. I agree with you on these picks, but I got Rashad over Forrest. You take?
    •   
       

  4. Registered User
    jas123's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Hiroshima
    Age
    36
    Posts
    4,066
    Rep Power
    2158

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
    Sh*t, I just remembered, Rob, you owe me 50 bucks. Lets go double or nothing??
    Oh yeah, you better get right on that Rob. Alex isn't just some b1tch you can push around


    Leben by KO in the 3rd
    Sok by KO in the 1st
    Vera by KO in the 2nd
    Davis by KO in the 1st
    Lytle by decision

    Hardy by KO
    Baron sub
    Carwin KO
    Bielkheden decision
  5. Banned
    pistonpump's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Hawaii Nei
    Age
    30
    Posts
    12,114
    Rep Power
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by jas123 View Post
    Oh yeah, you better get right on that Rob. Alex isn't just some b1tch you can push around


    Leben by KO in the 3rd
    Sok by KO in the 1st
    Vera by KO in the 2nd
    Davis by KO in the 1st
    Lytle by decision

    Hardy by KO
    Baron sub
    Carwin KO
    Bielkheden decision
    i agree here with the winners. This is one time where i cheer for Leben as if he were my brother, FCK Bispring!
  6. Registered User
    Alexander's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Fedor over Lindland in under 4 minutes
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5,068
    Rep Power
    2648

    Quote Originally Posted by robdog View Post
    Ya I was gonna pm u about that. I agree with you on these picks, but I got Rashad over Forrest. You take?
    Hmm, I tend to think Rashad has a real good chance of beating Forrest, but I'll take you up on that. I'm really aching to lose some money though, so if you want to bet on any fight thats on 89 or 90 let me know.
  7. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    AE14's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    12,329
    Rep Power
    922354

    Bisping needs to be careful. He needs to stay technically sound against Leben or he will go to sleep

    I am real interested in how Vera looks against Jardine. I think Vera should win, if he doesnt he could be gone for a while
    Controlled Labs Head Board Rep
    adam @ ControlledLabs.com
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility
  8. Registered User
    jas123's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Hiroshima
    Age
    36
    Posts
    4,066
    Rep Power
    2158

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
    Hmm, I tend to think Rashad has a real good chance of beating Forrest, but I'll take you up on that. I'm really aching to lose some money though, so if you want to bet on any fight thats on 89 or 90 let me know.
    How do you think Rashad beats Forrest? I see Forrest outpointing him by using a pick-apart from the outside strategy.
  9. Registered User
    Alexander's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Fedor over Lindland in under 4 minutes
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5,068
    Rep Power
    2648

    I think he might take Forrest down quite a bit, and oupoint him, but it is 5 rounds. I think Forrest will win really, I'm takin the bet.
  10. Registered User
    bigwhiteguy29's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  233 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    SLO
    Posts
    2,173
    Rep Power
    1511

    rashad knows hes going to do that so i say rashad wins and then forrest cries after even tho i love forrest way more that rashad.

    shane carwin is a freakin animal!

    i say bisping wins due to strikes to the cornrows and vera wins by a kick to the ugly chin hair
  11. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    AE14's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    12,329
    Rep Power
    922354

    Bisping fought a smart fight, but at the end of the day, ther is no one at 185 currently in the UFC to challenge Anderson. Maybe with some discussions with Akiyama, but even then I would not be confident. He might need to move to 205 permanently
    Controlled Labs Head Board Rep
    adam @ ControlledLabs.com
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility
  12. Registered User
    Alexander's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Fedor over Lindland in under 4 minutes
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5,068
    Rep Power
    2648

    I've been promoting Akiyama since day 1, but he can't beat Anderson. Anderson at 205 permanently would be amazing. Then a p4p debate squasher retirement bout against Fedor. Hey, I can dream.

    p.s. Fedor smashes him easy
  13. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    AE14's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    12,329
    Rep Power
    922354

    I agree that Fedor kills him, he is too much bigger naturally. I think he needs to move up personally or else 185 is a joke. Frnaklin/Hendo winner v. Bisping. Hell, those will be teh next TUF coaches anyway
    Controlled Labs Head Board Rep
    adam @ ControlledLabs.com
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility
  14. Gold Member
    Beowulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Boston
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,430
    Rep Power
    2149

    Aleks, that picture is disturbing. You obviously bleached your hair blonde.

    I think Anderson and Fedor actually walk at similar weights. I've heard Anderson walks around 220.

    Carwin is definitely an animal, though he hasn't really been challenged yet. He should be a great matchup against Lesnar. I wouldn't want to ref that fight. BJM is the only man who could break those guys up.

    Vera was a big disappointment. He seems to have lost the killer instinct, and he's lost 3 of 4. The UFC is definitely overpaying him. His only value is he draws the Phillipino fans, and is likely to headline that card in the Spring.

    Luiz Cane is a beast. I can't wait to see him fight more top guys. If they reschedule him against T. Silva, that should be a great fight. I think Cane takes it, he has better standup technique.

    Lytle and Taylor stole the show. Even though he loses a lot, I'm a huge Taylor fan. His technique is so crisp. Lytle vs. Davis should be a great fight if they put it together. That's a hard one to call. Marcus has the sharper technique. He looked great last night, too.
  15. Registered User
    Alexander's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Fedor over Lindland in under 4 minutes
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5,068
    Rep Power
    2648

    Yeah, I think Fedor is only about 15 pounds bigger than Anderson, and thats really just fat. I just think Fedor would sling Anderson to the ground and pound him out, hell he might even choose to beat Anderson standing. Yes, my Fedor love is still out of control.

    Carwin/Lesnar would be an awesome fight, 2 true heavyweights with good wrestling and big power in their hands. Bring back BJM for that fight, like Beo said.

    I like Taylor a lot as well. Seems like he's on the brink of being really good. I thought he might finish Lytle close to the end of the fight, but Lytle is a tough savvy dude.

    Sokoudjou is turning out to be the new Vitor. He's incredibly talented, but he just seems to fold easily. And yeah, Cane is a beast.

    And Beo, thats actually a picture of Mullet after his summer lean bulk.
  16. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Board Sponsor
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27062

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
    Yeah, I think Fedor is only about 15 pounds bigger than Anderson, and thats really just fat. I just think Fedor would sling Anderson to the ground and pound him out, hell he might even choose to beat Anderson standing. Yes, my Fedor love is still out of control.

    Carwin/Lesnar would be an awesome fight, 2 true heavyweights with good wrestling and big power in their hands. Bring back BJM for that fight, like Beo said.

    I like Taylor a lot as well. Seems like he's on the brink of being really good. I thought he might finish Lytle close to the end of the fight, but Lytle is a tough savvy dude.

    Sokoudjou is turning out to be the new Vitor. He's incredibly talented, but he just seems to fold easily. And yeah, Cane is a beast.
    Sokoudjou is an athletic beast with so much promise to deliver exciting fights! Unfortunately, he really seems unable to implement a solid game plan.

    And Beo, thats actually a picture of Mullet after his summer lean bulk.
    I'm parked at about 190 steady now, and after what you made your summer sound like, that probably looks more like you than me.
  17. Registered User
    Alexander's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Fedor over Lindland in under 4 minutes
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5,068
    Rep Power
    2648

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Sokoudjou is an athletic beast with so much promise to deliver exciting fights! Unfortunately, he really seems unable to implement a solid game plan.



    I'm parked at about 190 steady now, and after what you made your summer sound like, that probably looks more like you than me.
    True. I'm in bad shape man. I still weigh about 225, but I'm ahhhh, weak as hell. I tried to workout the other day for the first time in a long time and I could only do like 15 bw dips and 8 pullups.
  18. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Board Sponsor
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27062

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
    True. I'm in bad shape man. I still weigh about 225, but I'm ahhhh, weak as hell. I tried to workout the other day for the first time in a long time and I could only do like 15 bw dips and 8 pullups.
    Why? Are you just completely uninterested as of late? I spent some time in the summer alternating between DC-esque routines and BB'ing routines. Mostly the former in the first part of the summer, and the latter now to utilize the strength I built.
  19. Registered User
    Alexander's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Fedor over Lindland in under 4 minutes
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5,068
    Rep Power
    2648

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Why? Are you just completely uninterested as of late? I spent some time in the summer alternating between DC-esque routines and BB'ing routines. Mostly the former in the first part of the summer, and the latter now to utilize the strength I built.
    Yeah, I just have no interest whatsoever. Maybe a nice long layoff will pay off in the long run, and I'll get back into it with new motivation. I just drink a lot and never really feel like lifting. So yeah, I'm a drunk and I'm banging a 5.5
  20. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Board Sponsor
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27062

    Haha, nice work?!
  21. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,083
    Rep Power
    918005

    Lytle and Taylor stole the show last night. Lytle is kinda like the WW version of Guida: always entertaining, but can't seem to beat top competition. Hell of a fighter, though, and doesn't get the respect he deserves.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  22. Registered User
    bigwhiteguy29's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  233 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    SLO
    Posts
    2,173
    Rep Power
    1511

    davis was fun, carwin was too holy sh!t, i wish lytle knocked him out but whatever. i didnt like how he shook his head after he won! cane looked at thosem uscles and just said "so" weak chin. vera and jardine was a disapointment for sure. bisping was so smart he wanted a decision which is lame but still very fun. i am jsut glad this was free wow
  23. Registered User
    jas123's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Hiroshima
    Age
    36
    Posts
    4,066
    Rep Power
    2158

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Lytle and Taylor stole the show last night. Lytle is kinda like the WW version of Guida: always entertaining, but can't seem to beat top competition. Hell of a fighter, though, and doesn't get the respect he deserves.
    Baron and Miller was pretty good too (but not shown). Anyone find Hardy - Gono?
  24. Board Sponsor
    Board Sponsor
    Apowerz6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Chi-Town !!!
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,108
    Rep Power
    1165

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf View Post
    Aleks, that picture is disturbing. You obviously bleached your hair blonde.

    I think Anderson and Fedor actually walk at similar weights. I've heard Anderson walks around 220.

    Carwin is definitely an animal, though he hasn't really been challenged yet. He should be a great matchup against Lesnar. I wouldn't want to ref that fight. BJM is the only man who could break those guys up.

    Vera was a big disappointment. He seems to have lost the killer instinct, and he's lost 3 of 4. The UFC is definitely overpaying him. His only value is he draws the Phillipino fans, and is likely to headline that card in the Spring.

    Luiz Cane is a beast. I can't wait to see him fight more top guys. If they reschedule him against T. Silva, that should be a great fight. I think Cane takes it, he has better standup technique.

    Lytle and Taylor stole the show. Even though he loses a lot, I'm a huge Taylor fan. His technique is so crisp. Lytle vs. Davis should be a great fight if they put it together. That's a hard one to call. Marcus has the sharper technique. He looked great last night, too.
    Beowulf loving MMA!
    And to think I can remember when you had just started getting into MMA. Me personally I was only excited about Cane and Sadjoukou (sp) the main events were quite Lackluster, as I expected so much moe from Bispeng, and who knew that Leban cane be technical cool calm and collective.
  25. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    AE14's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    12,329
    Rep Power
    922354

    They are really pushing Bisping now. He will get fed to Hendo or Franklin (Hendo imo) then Spider if he survives the other.

    Outside of that, the next few cards are good, Kos v. Alves will be fun, and the idea of Lesnar v. Couture is crazy, so seeing if Lesnar is as good as I think he can be will be good.

    Solid cards coming up, thank goodness
    Controlled Labs Head Board Rep
    adam @ ControlledLabs.com
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility
  26. Registered User
    jas123's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Hiroshima
    Age
    36
    Posts
    4,066
    Rep Power
    2158

    Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez add some excitement to the HW division. I'm interested to see who emerges as the best. Lesnar-Carwin would just be plain fun. Carwin is more complete but a little smaller and maybe not quite as explosive. Cain supposed to be extremely talented but it's hard to say what would happen against the other 2 monsters.

    Sok's been a big disappointment. He's another GG type that can't take what he can give out.\



  27. Registered User
    omegax's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    92
    Rep Power
    118

    great to see these natural heavyweights coming into the ufc.. hopefuly in the near future they will have to split up the heavyweight division so that it will be something like 205-225 225-245 265+

    I was a little dissapointed in bisping I mean I love watching brawlers but hes starting to becoming a boxer type hit and run... oh well macheetah all over the place
  28. Registered User
    bigwhiteguy29's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  233 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    SLO
    Posts
    2,173
    Rep Power
    1511

    yeah these decisions are killing me but i know its a big part of the sport and the fighters game plan
  29. Registered User
    flobot's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    The best place on Earth
    Posts
    434
    Rep Power
    291

    What was ultra weird with UFC 89 was the decision that was given to Keith Jardine. That decision was bull****. Vera connected with way more shots and looked more the aggressor. Jardine was out of gas almost all of round 3.

    And the fact that Leben wanted to 'put on a show' (maybe to save his career?) and suddenly decide to slug it out w/ a counter punching boxer. Where Were the take downs?

    Also the fact that it was a Unanimous Decision for Bisping. That's Pure BS. Leben's face might look destroyed but I see 2 or 3 times where Bisping actually looked wobbled and hurt. I don't know why Chris couldn't?/didn't? capitalize.
  30. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,083
    Rep Power
    918005

    I thought Jardine won the fight. He looked bad in the 2nd after he hyperextended his knee, but he was the aggressor for much of the fight. Vera was way too tentative the entire time and was very trigger shy.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  31. Registered User
    flobot's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    The best place on Earth
    Posts
    434
    Rep Power
    291

    You think they'll give Vera one last chance say on free TV? I really don't know what happened to that guy after such a good start in the UFC.
  32. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,083
    Rep Power
    918005

    Quote Originally Posted by flobot View Post
    You think they'll give Vera one last chance say on free TV? I really don't know what happened to that guy after such a good start in the UFC.
    He was overhyped to begin with. His big win was against Frank Mir, but he has done little other than that.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  33. Registered User
    jas123's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Hiroshima
    Age
    36
    Posts
    4,066
    Rep Power
    2158

    Quote Originally Posted by flobot View Post
    What was ultra weird with UFC 89 was the decision that was given to Keith Jardine. That decision was bull****. Vera connected with way more shots and looked more the aggressor. Jardine was out of gas almost all of round 3.

    And the fact that Leben wanted to 'put on a show' (maybe to save his career?) and suddenly decide to slug it out w/ a counter punching boxer. Where Were the take downs?

    Also the fact that it was a Unanimous Decision for Bisping. That's Pure BS. Leben's face might look destroyed but I see 2 or 3 times where Bisping actually looked wobbled and hurt. I don't know why Chris couldn't?/didn't? capitalize.
    What do you mean suddenly? Leben always slugs it out regardless of what the pre-fight hype says about him fighting smarter. And Jardine and Bisping won the fight pretty clearly IMO.
  34. Registered User
    flobot's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    The best place on Earth
    Posts
    434
    Rep Power
    291

    I honestly think Jardine/Vera should at least be Split Decision.

    Yeah but Lebing's camp could've told him to shoot and take down Bisping. That's the most logical thing to do against a guy that's mostly a boxer imo.
  35. Registered User
    nemo's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    1,649
    Rep Power
    1233

    I really liked Vera as a fighter, but I have to agree Rodja at this point. I thought for sure he would steamroll Jardine to prove his place,.. instead he was passive, and allowed the jufight to go to the cards. He sealed his own crappy fate.
    Think training's hard,. try losing!
  36. Registered User
    Alexander's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Fedor over Lindland in under 4 minutes
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5,068
    Rep Power
    2648

    Quote Originally Posted by flobot View Post
    I honestly think Jardine/Vera should at least be Split Decision.

    Yeah but Lebing's camp could've told him to shoot and take down Bisping. That's the most logical thing to do against a guy that's mostly a boxer imo.
    It was a split decision, and imo, a correct one.
  37. Registered User
    robdog's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    773
    Rep Power
    474

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
    It was a split decision, and imo, a correct one.
    Bingo
  38. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,083
    Rep Power
    918005

    Jardine is such an enigma; he either gets destroyed or wins a methodical decision. If he can string together a few wins, then he could easily get a title shot (considering his KO over Forrest).
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  39. Banned
    pistonpump's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Hawaii Nei
    Age
    30
    Posts
    12,114
    Rep Power
    0

    i missed this event but i guess i didnt miss much.

    did bispring *****foot around the ring and fight a "smart" fight by basically running away? if so i hate him even more. The reason i hate the guy came from his TUF fight with Matt Hamil. the guy is a scumbag imo, im still waiting for the day he gets put in a coma for a day or two.
  40. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,083
    Rep Power
    918005

    Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    i missed this event but i guess i didnt miss much.

    did bispring *****foot around the ring and fight a "smart" fight by basically running away? if so i hate him even more. The reason i hate the guy came from his TUF fight with Matt Hamil. the guy is a scumbag imo, im still waiting for the day he gets put in a coma for a day or two.
    Not really; he picked apart Leben with solid counter-boxing. He never really tried to finish the fight at any point, though.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. UFC 93 Discussion
    By Rodja in forum MMA
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-22-2009, 08:29 PM
  2. Discussion On PCT Why?
    By mixedup in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 09-19-2008, 02:08 PM
  3. Ufn 9 Discussion
    By Beowulf in forum MMA
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 04-06-2007, 06:14 PM
  4. OTC Discussion
    By Dwight Schrute in forum OTC Drug
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 10-14-2004, 08:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in