UFC 88 Pre- and Post-fight discussion

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    UFC 88 Pre- and Post-fight discussion


    First, some bad news: Karo is out with a back injury and that fight has been scrapped.

    Main Card Bouts:
    -Chuck Liddell (#4 Light Heavyweight in the World)* vs. Rashad Evans
    -Rich Franklin (#3 Middleweight in the World)* vs. Matt Hamill
    -Nate Marquardt (#8 Middleweight in the World)* vs. Martin Kampmann
    -Dan Henderson (#9 Middleweight in the World)* vs. Rousimar Palhares

    Preliminary Bouts:
    -Dong Hyun Kim vs. Matt Brown
    -Kurt Pellegrino vs. Thiago Tavares
    -Roan Carneiro vs. Ryo Chonan
    -Mike Patt vs. Tim Boetsch
    -Jason Lambert vs. Jason MacDonald

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    I'll take :

    Chuck - KO rd 2
    Hammill - Decision
    Nate - Decision
    Hendo - KO rd 2

    Kim - KO
    Tavares - Decision
    Chonan - Decision
    Boetsch - KO rd 1
    Lambert - KO rd 2
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    I agree with just about all, but I think Hendo is going to get sub'd. I dont know why, just a gut feeling
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    Chuck Liddell's weakness revealed again!


    Chuck's fighting style of keeping himself wide open at all times was capitalized by Rampage and now Rashad. He's been able to succeed till now because he's fast on his feet but tonights card was stacked with many fights where the smarter fighters studied their opponents strengths and exploited their weaknesses. Smart fighters now know how to beat him with looping counterpunches. Man I thought they were going to take him to the hospital in a neck brace! Poor Chuck!
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    It was almost depressing to see Chucky - there's no way he'll ever beat an Evans, or Machida (if they are in top shape), age has definitely crept into him.

    I think the best move for Chuck would be to to announce retirement, he has lost 3 of his last 4 fights, and a title shot is now way off.
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    I am surprised that Rashad will now fight Forrest. That is an interesting fight though. Curious to see where Machida falls into this has T.SIlva is now out of the picture with the back injury. He maybe a Franklin/Machida rematch?
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    Chuck was frustrated with Rashads dancing and running around the ring and was afraid of losing to a descision like the Jardine fight. So instead he chased and chased hoping to force Rashad to exchange if he forced him up against the cage! His strength is being a counter puncher and that went out the window with the frustration. He wanted his title back so bad he was getting angry at Rashads running and dancing (did you see the look on Chucks face?) I don't think Chuck had any gameplan here at all. He was convinced he was gonna KO Rashad...who needs a gameplan. No gameplan...no title, stupid! Ever great fighter that lasts must have a specific gameplan for each different fighter. I wonder if Chuck can ever learn from his mistakes or is it over for him?
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    Chuck got what he deserved for leaving his hands down like he always does. As Lucky said, he has troubles with the overhand rights too as you could see in Page I. For being fairly boring, Rashad has two of the best KOs in UFC history.

    Nate's the man. Great showing for him, and the dude seems unbelievably big for 185.

    Why wasn't Hammill shooting more? I thought that was weird. Rich was picking him off bad. Nice fight for Rich.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jas123 View Post
    Chuck got what he deserved for leaving his hands down like he always does. As Lucky said, he has troubles with the overhand rights too as you could see in Page I. For being fairly boring, Rashad has two of the best KOs in UFC history.

    Nate's the man. Great showing for him, and the dude seems unbelievably big for 185.

    Why wasn't Hammill shooting more? I thought that was weird. Rich was picking him off bad. Nice fight for Rich.
    I agree with you on the Hammil issue. Why the hell he wasnt shooting more is beyond me. Dude has retard strength and couldve manhandled Franklin on the ground. I guess deaf and retarded are the same. (I know, thats bad.)
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    Chuck has been caught with overhand rights his entire career starting with Mezger way back in '01. He just has faced very few fighters with the speed and technique to expose that. Rashad's left hook was what set up that big overhand right because he landed that at least 6 times throughout the fight and you could see the frustration on Chuck's face.
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    Rashad was able to use Chuck's style against him. Once Chuck becomes the stalker, his style is wide open to getting that jaw tapped. Once I saw that Liddell was on the offensive, I knew how it was going to end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jas123 View Post
    Chuck got what he deserved for leaving his hands down like he always does.
    Word.

    Chuck's striking advantage has been his power and his awkward unorthodox style. However he is sloppy and a one trick pony. IMO his reign at the top was due to his couterpunching style and strong takedown defense AND being matched up against grapplers. With tighter strikers in the LHW division Chuck will have to adapt or his career is basically over.
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    I think at this point maybe chuck moves up. He could easily fight at 220 and would probably do well against bigger slower fighters. Just a thought
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper329 View Post
    I think at this point maybe chuck moves up. He could easily fight at 220 and would probably do well against bigger slower fighters. Just a thought
    Reaper, Chuck moving up to 220??? To face a Lesnar, Mir or soon Couture?

    I don't see it, especially not in the shape Chuck is now.
    This is not the Chuck that beat an Overeem back in 2003 in Japan, this Chuck moved as if his belly dragged him down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz View Post
    Reaper, Chuck moving up to 220??? To face a Lesnar, Mir or soon Couture?

    I don't see it, especially not in the shape Chuck is now.
    This is not the Chuck that beat an Overeem back in 2003 in Japan, this Chuck moved as if his belly dragged him down.
    the faster strikers at 205 are going to kill him at this point. He might be better against some larger guys, and I still think he beats Randy and Mir convincingly. Mir has no chin whatsoever. Obviously guys like Nog would beat him, and Lesnar would be a sight to see, however, 205 is loaded, and if Anderson and Franklin are there more often than not, he has little success in the future. Just my opinion
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    Rashad looked to be in the best shape of his career in that fight. During the first round when Chuck knocked back with that cross (or was it a jab?) I thought "Ok, this isn't going to last too much longer"... boy was I wrong.

    Also, chuck used to actually throw decent leg kicks, what the hell happened to those? Now it looks like his damn spine is fused closed and he can't lift his legs properly.
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    How was MacD taking down Lambert with ease? His TDs have looked horrible in the past, and Lambert is a tank.

    I also thought Kim clearly won. I couldn't any of the commentary at the bar until the post fight interviews and I was amazed at the booing. At best, it was even so why do people have to boo, and why the **** was Rogan giving his opinion and egging on the crowd? I will say that Brown impressed me since I didn't think much of him while Kim didn't seem to live up to the hype.

    I only caught the first round of Pelligrino-Tavares, but Kurt was beating the piss out of him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper329 View Post
    the faster strikers at 205 are going to kill him at this point. He might be better against some larger guys, and I still think he beats Randy and Mir convincingly. Mir has no chin whatsoever. Obviously guys like Nog would beat him, and Lesnar would be a sight to see, however, 205 is loaded, and if Anderson and Franklin are there more often than not, he has little success in the future. Just my opinion
    Reaper, I agree with the 205 lbs statement - Liddell is done at 205 pounds. He beat a Wanderlei Silva who was not the Silva we knew from pride (or from fight against Jardine afterwards), and for guys like Machida and Thiago Silva you need to be in your best possible condition.

    I, too, noticed the excellent shape Evans was in - maybe Liddell should finally think about getting rid of his potbelly?
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    Liddell would KO Thiago easily if you ask me. His standup is sloppy as hell, but you're right about Machida.

    I don't think it had anything to do with Chuck being in shape. It had to do with fundamental flaws in his technique and defense that people are exploiting repeatedly. In other words, he has to get a new team and evolve or he'll be the Matt Hughes of 205. It doesn't matter if he moves up. People know how to beat him striking. Kongo would KO him, Brock would silverback rape him, Hardonk or Sanchez might even KO him if they are smart....
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    Quote Originally Posted by jas123 View Post
    Liddell would KO Thiago easily if you ask me. His standup is sloppy as hell, but you're right about Machida.

    I don't think it had anything to do with Chuck being in shape. It had to do with fundamental flaws in his technique and defense that people are exploiting repeatedly. In other words, he has to get a new team and evolve or he'll be the Matt Hughes of 205. It doesn't matter if he moves up. People know how to beat him striking. Kongo would KO him, Brock would silverback rape him, Hardonk or Sanchez might even KO him if they are smart....
    Maybe I just made a wrong observation, but there seemed to be a night / day difference between the fluidity or easeness of how Rashad moved vs how Chuck did.

    I simply believe Chuck winning the LHW belt won't happen anymore, it's now only a question of how gracefully he exits.
    I also believe he'll never ditch Hackleman, who has accompanied him for so long.
  

  
 

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