Pre-TRT bloodwork (latest bloodwork in)

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    Pre-TRT bloodwork (latest bloodwork in)


    Just got my latest bloodwork in, asked for a pretty extensive list of tests this time around, although it's missing DHT again...I've asked for them to test that each time and the Dr said ok, but guess he keeps forgetting (new dr coming soon).

    Anyhow, in case people may or may not have been following, I was about to try an HCG monotherapy before starting normal TRT via t-shots. Here was the previous thread, has most of my story within it about my history, etc:

    HCG - how long for LH to recover when/if stopping?


    And here are the latest numbers. Looks like my thyroid is ok? My previous bloodwork looked as though it may have issues.

    Current supplements include MST's MVP + ZMK. 25mg DHEA every morning and 50mg oral pregnenalone split bd. Toco-8 1 scoop daily.



    Performed at: LabCorp

    Tests: (1) Comp. Metabolic Panel (14) (322000)
    Glucose, Serum (fasting glucose) 91mg/dL -----------> 65-99
    BUN 22mg/dL -----------> 5-26
    Creatinine, Serum 1.20 mg/dL -----------> 0.5-1.50
    Glom Filt Rate, Est >60 mL/min -----------> 60-137
    BUN/Creatinine Ratio 18 -----------> 8-27
    Sodium, Serum 139 mmol/L -----------> 135-145
    Potassium, Serum 4.9 mmol/L -----------> 3.5-5.2
    Chloride, Serum 102 mmol/L -----------> 97-108
    Carbon Dioxide, Total 24 mmol/L -----------> 20-32
    Calcium, Serum 9.8 mg/dL -----------> 8.5-10.6
    Protein, Total, Serum 6.8 g/dL -----------> 6.0-8.5

    Albumin, Serum 4.5 g/dL -----------> 3.5-5.5
    Globulin, Total 2.3 g/dL -----------> 1.5-4.5
    A/G Ratio 2.0 -----------> 1.1-2.5
    Alkaline Phosphatase, S 68 IU/L -----------> 25-150

    AST (SGOT) 21 IU/L -----------> 0-40
    ALT (SGPT) 18 IU/L -----------> 0-55


    Tests: (2) Testosterone, Free and Total (140103)
    Testosterone, Serum 371 ng/dL -----------> 241-827
    Free Testosterone (Direct) 10.0 pg/mL -----------> 8.8-25.1

    Tests: (3) FSH and LH (028480)
    LH 1.9 mIU/mL -----------> 1.5-9.3
    FSH 4.0 mIU/mL -----------> 1.4-18.1

    Tests: (4) Estradiol, Sensitive (140244)
    Estradiol, Sensitive 17 pg/mL -----------> 3-70

    Tests: (5) Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S (001974)
    T4, Free (Direct) 1.38 ng/dL -----------> 0.61-1.76

    Tests: (6) IGF-1 (010363)
    Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 167 ng/mL -----------> 117-329

    Tests: (7) Estradiol (004515)
    Estradiol 8 pg/mL -----------> 0-53

    Tests: (8) TSH
    TSH 1.522 uIU/mL -----------> 0.350-5.500

    Tests: (9) Triiodothyronine (T3) (002188)
    Triiothyronine (T3) 116 ng/dL -----------> 85-205

    Tests: (10) Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) (004101)
    Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) 811 ng/dL -----------> 146-850

    Tests: (11) Progesterone (004317)
    Progesterone [H] 2.6 ng/mL -----------> 0.3-1.2

    Tests: (12) Prolactin (004465)
    Prolactin 3.5 ng/mL -----------> 2.1-17.7

    Tests: (13) Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum (082016)
    SHBG 18 nmol/L -----------> 13-71



    I was taking an AI for a while before this, so my e2 levels are down lower than normal, even though I had stopped 2 weeks earlier. It worked in lowering my e2, but for some reason my LH didn't go higher as expected..although test levels are exactly the same as my last test in January (January BW posted within link at top of thread).

    One confusing item -> My baseline test levels are EXACTLY the same as they were in my last BT, but my LH is much lower. Very odd. I wonder if this means that I may actually be able to benefit from HCG monotherapy afterall? But previously my LH + FSH where higher, yet I had the same test levels. Kind of odd..


    Any comments or pointers would be great.


    edit: just for comparison, my old bloodwork done in January:

    Free T4 (non-dialysis) 0.9 (0.8-2.2) ng/dL
    TSH 3rd generation 1.74 (0.5-4.0) mIU/L

    LH 5.6 (1.2 - 11)
    FSH 7.1 (1.6 - 9.7)

    Total Testosterone: 372 (400-1080) LOW
    SHBG: 12 (11-80)
    Bioavailable Test: 280 (131-682)
    Free Test: 105 (47-244)
    DHEAS: 281 (120-520)
    Prolactin: 11.3 (5.0-18)
    Estradiol: 30 (<66)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Just got my latest bloodwork in, asked for a pretty extensive list of tests this time around, although it's missing DHT again...I've asked for them to test that each time and the Dr said ok, but guess he keeps forgetting (new dr coming soon).

    Anyhow, in case people may or may not have been following, I was about to try an HCG monotherapy before starting normal TRT via t-shots. Here was the previous thread, has most of my story within it about my history, etc:

    HCG - how long for LH to recover when/if stopping?


    And here are the latest numbers. Looks like my thyroid is ok? My previous bloodwork looked as though it may have issues.

    Current supplements include MST's MVP + ZMK. 25mg DHEA every morning and 50mg oral pregnenalone split bd. Toco-8 1 scoop daily.



    Performed at: LabCorp

    Tests: (1) Comp. Metabolic Panel (14) (322000)
    Glucose, Serum (fasting glucose) 91mg/dL -----------> 65-99
    BUN 22mg/dL -----------> 5-26
    Creatinine, Serum 1.20 mg/dL -----------> 0.5-1.50
    Glom Filt Rate, Est >60 mL/min -----------> 60-137
    BUN/Creatinine Ratio 18 -----------> 8-27
    Sodium, Serum 139 mmol/L -----------> 135-145
    Potassium, Serum 4.9 mmol/L -----------> 3.5-5.2
    Chloride, Serum 102 mmol/L -----------> 97-108
    Carbon Dioxide, Total 24 mmol/L -----------> 20-32
    Calcium, Serum 9.8 mg/dL -----------> 8.5-10.6
    Protein, Total, Serum 6.8 g/dL -----------> 6.0-8.5

    Albumin, Serum 4.5 g/dL -----------> 3.5-5.5
    Globulin, Total 2.3 g/dL -----------> 1.5-4.5
    A/G Ratio 2.0 -----------> 1.1-2.5
    Alkaline Phosphatase, S 68 IU/L -----------> 25-150

    AST (SGOT) 21 IU/L -----------> 0-40
    ALT (SGPT) 18 IU/L -----------> 0-55


    Tests: (2) Testosterone, Free and Total (140103)
    Testosterone, Serum 371 ng/dL -----------> 241-827
    Free Testosterone (Direct) 10.0 pg/mL -----------> 8.8-25.1

    Tests: (3) FSH and LH (028480)
    LH 1.9 mIU/mL -----------> 1.5-9.3
    FSH 4.0 mIU/mL -----------> 1.4-18.1

    Tests: (4) Estradiol, Sensitive (140244)
    Estradiol, Sensitive 17 pg/mL -----------> 3-70

    Tests: (5) Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S (001974)
    T4, Free (Direct) 1.38 ng/dL -----------> 0.61-1.76

    Tests: (6) IGF-1 (010363)
    Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 167 ng/mL -----------> 117-329

    Tests: (7) Estradiol (004515)
    Estradiol 8 pg/mL -----------> 0-53

    Tests: (8) TSH
    TSH 1.522 uIU/mL -----------> 0.350-5.500

    Tests: (9) Triiodothyronine (T3) (002188)
    Triiothyronine (T3) 116 ng/dL -----------> 85-205

    Tests: (10) Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) (004101)
    Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) 811 ng/dL -----------> 146-850

    Tests: (11) Progesterone (004317)
    Progesterone [H] 2.6 ng/mL -----------> 0.3-1.2

    Tests: (12) Prolactin (004465)
    Prolactin 3.5 ng/mL -----------> 2.1-17.7

    Tests: (13) Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum (082016)
    SHBG 18 nmol/L -----------> 13-71



    I was taking an AI for a while before this, so my e2 levels are down lower than normal, even though I had stopped 2 weeks earlier. It worked in lowering my e2, but for some reason my LH didn't go higher as expected..although test levels are exactly the same as my last test in January (January BW posted within link at top of thread).

    One confusing item -> My baseline test levels are EXACTLY the same as they were in my last BT, but my LH is much lower. Very odd. I wonder if this means that I may actually be able to benefit from HCG monotherapy afterall? But previously my LH + FSH where higher, yet I had the same test levels. Kind of odd..


    Any comments or pointers would be great.


    edit: just for comparison, my old bloodwork done in January:

    Free T4 (non-dialysis) 0.9 (0.8-2.2) ng/dL
    TSH 3rd generation 1.74 (0.5-4.0) mIU/L

    LH 5.6 (1.2 - 11)
    FSH 7.1 (1.6 - 9.7)

    Total Testosterone: 372 (400-1080) LOW
    SHBG: 12 (11-80)
    Bioavailable Test: 280 (131-682)
    Free Test: 105 (47-244)
    DHEAS: 281 (120-520)
    Prolactin: 11.3 (5.0-18)
    Estradiol: 30 (<66)
    Speaking of your LH status;

    what have you possibly done to suppress it?
    Have you been taking external testosterone?
    Have you been taking
    HCG
    clomid
    Nolva
    similar?
    ============================== ==========
    Bottom line, the only way to figure how you would react to HCG theraphy, is, to try it.
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    Not taking any external testosterone or HCG currently, but I was taking HCG for a few months (february-april) as well as some other supressive things. I was taking an AI (aromasin) for a while in January till april, and then switched to 6-bromo. It's possible the 6-bromo may have caused some suppression..I've heard it possibly has an active isomer. Basically I had tried to completely shut myself down (which I had, high dose of epistane for 8 weeks) and then restart. I did the restart with Toremefine (similar to nolva/clomid).

    I am very interested in the fact that I am able to have the same test levels as before but with much lower LH - possibly due to the use of Toco-8 causing increased LH response / testicular sensitivity to LH? It does give me hope that I am able to respond to HCG and that when I increase my LH, my test will be all the more higher (or at least that's the goal).
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    I guess this is my last concern before jumping into TRT:

    I have never been able to improve my T-levels over the 370 mark within the last year. If my levels are at that baseline now with a much lowered LH level, would it be safe to say that my body SHOULD produce more T at an elevated LH level (even though I have never produced more with an elevated LH level)? I am almost thinking of staying natural now to try this out, but everything I have tried in the past makes me think I am primary, as I have never been able to go over that mark even with LH at 5 (which is now at 1.9 and producing same amount of T).

    If I try the hcg monotherapy, that will drive my LH further down and will probably be the deciding factor of weather or not I will be going on permanent TRT as I would not think I would recover very quickly from supressing my LH again so soon. I may try a low dosed serm again for a couple weeks and see how I feel, before deciding to try out the monotherapy. Having second thoughts now about it all after seeing this bloodwork...I would not have thought I could get to my previous baseline with such a low LH level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I guess this is my last concern before jumping into TRT:

    I have never been able to improve my T-levels over the 370 mark within the last year. If my levels are at that baseline now with a much lowered LH level, would it be safe to say that my body SHOULD produce more T at an elevated LH level (even though I have never produced more with an elevated LH level)? I am almost thinking of staying natural now to try this out, but everything I have tried in the past makes me think I am primary, as I have never been able to go over that mark even with LH at 5 (which is now at 1.9 and producing same amount of T).

    If I try the hcg monotherapy, that will drive my LH further down and will probably be the deciding factor of weather or not I will be going on permanent TRT as I would not think I would recover very quickly from supressing my LH again so soon. I may try a low dosed serm again for a couple weeks and see how I feel, before deciding to try out the monotherapy. Having second thoughts now about it all after seeing this bloodwork...I would not have thought I could get to my previous baseline with such a low LH level.
    At tis tme your TT=370
    That is low.
    I think trying SERM is waste of time.
    I would go for 1000-1250iu HCG shots E3D.
    Then check and see what happens.

    Whatewer you decide, write it down, post it next to computer monitor, so you do not change in mid stream.
    .
    .
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    Starting this today.. 1500iu e3d for 2 weeks (to gauge how I feel / effectiveness), then 1000iu e3d, bloodwork after 1 month.
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    Good idea. The SERM is a waste of time. I'm curious of your results because I tried HCG for a while at 1000iU every three days and improved. I'm now being treated by Crisler and he talked me into a T cream and a small amount of HCG every three days. I just started today so we'll see what happens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brentf13 View Post
    Good idea. The SERM is a waste of time. I'm curious of your results because I tried HCG for a while at 1000iU every three days and improved. I'm now being treated by Crisler and he talked me into a T cream and a small amount of HCG every three days. I just started today so we'll see what happens.
    So you must be primary after all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brentf13 View Post
    Good idea. The SERM is a waste of time. I'm curious of your results because I tried HCG for a while at 1000iU every three days and improved. I'm now being treated by Crisler and he talked me into a T cream and a small amount of HCG every three days. I just started today so we'll see what happens.

    How long till you noticed improvement on 1000iu?
    If I don't notice any change within a month, I'm probably switching to shots + small dose of hcg.

    I've increased my oral dhea to 50-75mgs ed now, and still taking 50-75mg oral preg as well, should help the hcg work better, if I respond to it.
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    Well it's been almost 2 weeks now. I notice some change, nothing drastic in that time though. I definately don't feel jacked at all on such a high dose of hcg. Guess I'll give it some more time and see. Something must be working to an extent though because I'm starting to break out now (some acne, not just the usual bacne).

    I did 3 shots of 1500iu and in a couple days I will be on my 3rd shot of 1250iu. 2 more weeks of 1250iu's and then I do bloodwork (just TT + FT + e2).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Well it's been almost 2 weeks now. I notice some change, nothing drastic in that time though. I definately don't feel jacked at all on such a high dose of hcg. Guess I'll give it some more time and see. Something must be working to an extent though because I'm starting to break out now (some acne, not just the usual bacne).

    I did 3 shots of 1500iu and in a couple days I will be on my 3rd shot of 1250iu. 2 more weeks of 1250iu's and then I do bloodwork (just TT + FT + e2).
    Do not do FreeT
    instead do SHBG + Albumin

    Make sure E2 is ultrasensitive.
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    To answer your question it appears I keep feeling the initial dopamine rush from a T spike when I start TRT. (I've stopped and started three times until I found the right Dr) It disappears after a few days. I'm starting to think my problem is more depression related and less T related. Depression can screw with HPTA function as it can every other function of your body. There is a guy on another site who's T level was similar to mine and his Dr put him on Cymbalta for depression and it cleared his depression and his T went from 350 to 650. I'm starting to wonder..... if maybe the endo I went to knew what he was talking about.
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    I've heard of that too, although I don't understand it. Can depression really cause primary hypogonadism, and if the depression has existed for a long time, is it reversable when the depressive symptoms are relieved?

    Well I started taking Stablon for depression / anxiety about a month or more ago, and I'm definately liking it a lot (but thinking of upping my dose from 3 to 4/5 x 12.5mg pd). It's definately got me thinking more positively. Maybe that will have an effect in time as well on T levels but for now I think I want to continue with the hcg though and see what happens.
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    Tests: (6) IGF-1 (010363)
    Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 167 ng/mL -----------> 117-329


    My GH seems to be on the low end, Iv'e read if it's anywhere below 170 or so, that people should be treated for it. Anyone think I should look into Somatropin? I've heard even GH treatment can raise test levels (as a side note)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Tests: (6) IGF-1 (010363)
    Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 167 ng/mL -----------> 117-329


    My GH seems to be on the low end, Iv'e read if it's anywhere below 170 or so, that people should be treated for it. Anyone think I should look into Somatropin? I've heard even GH treatment can raise test levels (as a side note)
    Can anyone chime in on the IGF levels?

    On a side note, I've had no need for cialis lately and been getting steady nightly wood (evening + morning, random). Damn acne is getting worse... Looking forward to bloodwork soon. I still don't think it's as high as it could be but we'll see where my levels stand.
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    So I must be primary after all. I thought the HCG was working somewhat OK for a bit, nothing fantastic....so I upped my dose back up to 1500iu 3x per week. I was noticing some e-related issues (some minor sensitivity around nipples that would come and go) so I added in a very low dose of exemestane (aromasin) at 10mg every other day or so, between shots or on day of shot.

    Well, I don't think HCG is for me. I didn't feel 'jacked' on a high dose, and I didn't feel better than previously on a regular dose.. and I actually only saw a minor improvement even while increasing dhea and eating very well w/betaine + enzymes.

    Sooo, I've just frontloaded 250mg of test-e at the end of this past week (IM into quad with 30gauge 1/2 inch .5cc slin pin - took 3 shots to get it all properly in, painless - took a bit of time but no big deal), going to drop my hcg down to 1200iu per week in a couple weeks when the esters start kicking in. Next week I will start doing weekly 100mg doses split into e3d shots sub-q or IM with slin pin. Little upset that HCG wasn't for me, but I really just want to feel + perform my best and waste no more time so I'm not too bothered by it...I'm actually anxious for it to kick in now - it's my first time shooting oil and I know it's got to, beyond a doubt, work to get my levels up now.
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    i am curious about the following:

    with the low E2 (8) did you have ED?

    and when it was higher you didn't?

    did this come because of dropping a'dex or increasing dhea or what?

    thx for your time
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    The low e2 was from long term use of an AI (6bromo). I was using cialis then, but even when on hcg with no ai + with higher e2, I wasn't using cialis most of the time (didn't need to), and things were ok, but I could still easily lose interest during the act and still had troubles with length of time before finishing...huge hassle and upsets the lady, she takes it personally.

    My e2 used to be around 30 before and I still had these problems. I'll have to say my saviour over the past while has been cialis and several nootropics such as vinpocetin, acetyl-l-carnitine arginate, l-dopa + pea, some deprnyl + stablon. They helped with cognitive issues + anxiety + some depression but these still do very little for my libido. All that stuff can just be replaced by test though and I'll be better off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cumkwakka View Post
    i am curious about the following:

    with the low E2 (8) did you have ED?

    and when it was higher you didn't?

    did this come because of dropping a'dex or increasing dhea or what?

    thx for your time

    Btw, I forgot, that low e2 (8) was not the correct test. I asked for ultra-sensitive, they did normal and sensitive.

    Tests: (4) Estradiol, Sensitive (140244)
    Estradiol, Sensitive 17 pg/mL -----------> 3-70

    e2 was not that bad given the fact I was taking an AI for a long time before. I have no troubles getting it up, but without stimulation, can lose an erection quickly (15 secs or so)..I believe this is a test issue and not e2 related.


    Does anyone know when this shot I took last thursday (250mg test-e) should begin to kick in? I took another, 75mg last night and will be taking 75mg on thursday (will do t shots on mondays,thursdays) - 250iu hcg on two days before each shot...no AI for now, will test in a month or more to see what's needed. It's my first shot, I read it can take 5-11 days to start noticing things..
  

  
 

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