HCG adminsitration

[The Matrix]

I take my shots on monday and thursday
and was doing HCG 250 on s,wed armidex .25 m,w,f
results were 1080 e2 30

I change protocol and went to 100ius hcg days inbetween shots and testosterone dropped to 793 could this because that my body response really well to hcg and that I could be more secondary then primary?

[JanSz]

I take my shots on monday and thursday
and was doing HCG 250 on s,wed armidex .25 m,w,f
results were 1080 e2 30

I change protocol and went to 100ius hcg days inbetween shots and testosterone dropped to 793 could this because that my body response really well to hcg and that I could be more secondary then primary?

Do you need more proof?

Guys are reporting that E3D schedule is best for HCG mono-theraphy.

Keep your average weekly T dose but change to E3D.

Day#1 T shot
Day#2 nothing (or Arimidex)
Day#3 (500, 750, 1000)iu HCG
Retest within 4 weeks, reduce T dose first (if required)
Draw blood 48 hrs after T shot.

Max Arimidex dose 2mg/week (divided)
Max HCG dose limited by:
E2 raise beyond control provided by 2 mg Arimidex
or
excessive BioAvailableTestosterone (BAT).

Taper testosterone shots down to zero if BAT allows.
(blood drawn in the morning of day#3)

[jinxie]

I take my shots on monday and thursday
and was doing HCG 250 on s,wed armidex .25 m,w,f
results were 1080 e2 30

I change protocol and went to 100ius hcg days inbetween shots and testosterone dropped to 793 could this because that my body response really well to hcg and that I could be more secondary then primary?

Shawn, your numbers look pretty similar to mine before going on hCG monotherapy. I think you are a good candidate. If you respond like I do, you can come off Test, and go directly to hCG mono, at 1000 IUs E3Ds, without a hitch. You may need to up the adex dose as I believe hCG is more likely to result in aromotaisation of T. When I was taking 1500 IUs E3D, with .3 Adex EOD, my E2 climbed to 90, and my TT was 1400. I then dropped my hCG to 1000 IUs, and increased Adex to .6 EOD. New numbers await.

GL.

[The Matrix]

Shawn, your numbers look pretty similar to mine before going on hCG monotherapy. I think you are a good candidate. If you respond like I do, you can come off Test, and go directly to hCG mono, at 1000 IUs E3Ds, without a hitch. You may need to up the adex dose as I believe hCG is more likely to result in aromotaisation of T. When I was taking 1500 IUs E3D, with .3 Adex EOD, my E2 climbed to 90, and my TT was 1400. I then dropped my hCG to 1000 IUs, and increased Adex to .6 EOD. New numbers await.

GL.

Yes I think my balls are responding good and always have sensitive to testosterone. Plus the hcg might even help to stimulate adrenals. For some reason I think the core source of problems is the elevated 2/16 ratio and methylation not working for what ever reason..I think if I cleared out the bad estrogens that my endocrine system would kick on. I dropped the hcg to 100 ius inbetween the shots to see if it was to control the estrogen metabolites. HCg only therapy is much cheaper and injecting is so much easier. I bet 250 every day would work even better. Did you think that it be worth going hcg mono since I am since I got a huge response off that little change of hcg.

[JanSz]

Yes I think my balls are responding good and always have sensitive to testosterone. Plus the hcg might even help to stimulate adrenals. For some reason I think the core source of problems is the elevated 2/16 ratio and methylation not working for what ever reason..I think if I cleared out the bad estrogens that my endocrine system would kick on. I dropped the hcg to 100 ius inbetween the shots to see if it was to control the estrogen metabolites. HCg only therapy is much cheaper and injecting is so much easier. I bet 250 every day would work even better. Did you think that it be worth going hcg mono since I am since I got a huge response off that little change of hcg.

Jinxie will give you more definite answer,
but in the mean time;

from discussions with colkurtz_spf
his Cenegenic doc recomends hcg dosing 2x/week, (I think allways in the evenings).
So you have 3 days followed by 4 days.
Supposedly the 4 days hiatus stimulates body's own responses.
That was his doc first choice.

Eventually colkurtz_spf and jinxie decided on E3D system,
make them feel better overall.
-------------------------------------
This is in contrast to E2D or even ED that would seems as most beneficial.

Guess, as usual, have to try and see what works.
-------------------------------------
Guessing again, ED system should have minimum E2 raise due to the same average weekly dose.
.
.

[jinxie]

Yes I think my balls are responding good and always have sensitive to testosterone. Plus the hcg might even help to stimulate adrenals. For some reason I think the core source of problems is the elevated 2/16 ratio and methylation not working for what ever reason..I think if I cleared out the bad estrogens that my endocrine system would kick on. I dropped the hcg to 100 ius inbetween the shots to see if it was to control the estrogen metabolites. HCg only therapy is much cheaper and injecting is so much easier. I bet 250 every day would work even better. Did you think that it be worth going hcg mono since I am since I got a huge response off that little change of hcg.

I definitely think trying mono is worth a shot. As for ED, vs. less frequent, I did some reading (anecdotal stuff from Colkurtz and some of Shippen's other patients, and the Novarel instructions) and gave due consideration for the 1/2 life of hCG (over 2 days) and concluded that E3Ds made sense for me. But if anyone comes up with something compelling re more frequent, I'd change to E2Ds. I'd rather not shoot every day, just because of inconvenience. (Do you have any recommendations re the best frequency for Adex; currently, I take at same time as my shots. But I can take that every day if preferable.)

Incidentally, to figure out the 2/16 ratio must I go through Rhein? My insurance is such a pain in the ass for anything other than local labs -- Quest and Labcorp, or in-house at hospitals. I'd like to resolve this issue to determine whether I need to take DIM, on top of the Adex.

[colkurtz_spf]

I definitely think trying mono is worth a shot. As for ED, vs. less frequent, I did some reading (anecdotal stuff from Colkurtz and some of Shippen's other patients, and the Novarel instructions) and gave due consideration for the 1/2 life of hCG (over 2 days) and concluded that E3Ds made sense for me. But if anyone comes up with something compelling re more frequent, I'd change to E2Ds. I'd rather not shoot every day, just because of inconvenience. (Do you have any recommendations re the best frequency for Adex; currently, I take at same time as my shots. But I can take that every day if preferable.)

Incidentally, to figure out the 2/16 ratio must I go through Rhein? My insurance is such a pain in the ass for anything other than local labs -- Quest and Labcorp, or in-house at hospitals. I'd like to resolve this issue to determine whether I need to take DIM, on top of the Adex.

My doctor has been administering monotherapy for over a decade. He has also a grant with the University of Miami Med School to conduct a 5 year study on the effects of HGH in a diverse population. It's the first comprehensive long-term study of it's kind. I can understand why you think my comments are anecdotal, but my doctors advice is anything but. You can take my word for it or not. I won't mention his name here.

[JanSz]

My doctor has been administering monotherapy for over a decade. He has also a grant with the University of Miami Med School to conduct a 5 year study on the effects of HGH in a diverse population. It's the first comprehensive long-term study of it's kind. I can understand why you think my comments are anecdotal, but my doctors advice is anything but. You can take my word for it or not. I won't mention his name here.

Yes, you are lucky to have him helping you, your doc is a heavy hitter.

[jinxie]

My doctor has been administering monotherapy for over a decade. He has also a grant with the University of Miami Med School to conduct a 5 year study on the effects of HGH in a diverse population. It's the first comprehensive long-term study of it's kind. I can understand why you think my comments are anecdotal, but my doctors advice is anything but. You can take my word for it or not. I won't mention his name here.

Colkurtz, my reference as anecdotal was not meant as an insult. It was merely to distinguish it (mostly second hand information) from hands-on empirical evidence, or inferences drawn from extensive hard data. HAN/Matrix has hands-on experience, so I knew he would appreciate the reference. I am sorry if you were offended. And your doc certainly sounds impressive. And I am always impressed by what you offer the board.

[colkurtz_spf]

Colkurtz, my reference as anecdotal was not meant as an insult. It was merely to distinguish it (mostly second hand information) from hands-on empirical evidence, or inferences drawn from extensive hard data. HAN/Matrix has hands-on experience, so I knew he would appreciate the reference. I am sorry if you were offended. And your doc certainly sounds impressive. And I am always impressed by what you offer the board.

There was no offense taken. It was an attempt to qualify my doctor, and not a good one at that. I wanted other readers to know I have one. You were fortunate enough to figure this out on your own.

[The Matrix]

There was no offense taken. It was an attempt to qualify my doctor, and not a good one at that. I wanted other readers to know I have one. You were fortunate enough to figure this out on your own.

I have an open mind about things and what works for one person may not work for another. Constant tweeking is some times warranted to get optimum results. Again if there is information out there one must take every thing they hear with a grain of salt, untill further information is available. I tend to error on side of caution with clinical evidence backed by thousands of test then just one person testimony. My fiancee dad was diagnosed with low T at 49 and was given 300 mgs every 3 weeks and I told him that this is unexceptable protocol and why. It was apparent that his blood pressure shot up to 212/108 in matter of just 2 days after adminstraton then it lowered back down till after the 17 day it then shot back up and he did not understand why. End point there are good drs and there are uninformed drs out there so one just has to be cautious is all.