low test levels clomid reboot

Page 2 of 3 First 123 Last

  1. day 10!
    getting a lot of wood latley, sorry for the delay of blood results i am going to have to go in for that someday next week. i am getting a little more aggressive acne nothing a tanning booth cant handle and gains seem to be coming more rapidly i have put on almost a full 5-7lbs LBM since begging the clomid therapy is this possible??, also definatly have been leaning out as i have added leviathan reloaded to my stack. ill be sure to keep bringing in the updates
    later


  2. A question (directed mostly to Bio and DatB, but anyone is free to chime in), assuming one stayed on Clomid at 10 - 25 mg/ED, then - at some point - EOD, do you believe there would be a benefit from simultaneously running Tamox at a very low dose (like 10mg/ED)?
    •   
       


  3. There would be no point in taking both as Clomid and Tamox are similar. I would suggest taking either one or the other at a low dose.
  4. Post


    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    A question (directed mostly to Bio and DatB, but anyone is free to chime in), assuming one stayed on Clomid at 10 - 25 mg/ED, then - at some point - EOD, do you believe there would be a benefit from simultaneously running Tamox at a very low dose (like 10mg/ED)?
    Probably not...not for the purpose we are discussing here. It is probably best to go with one or the other. Here is an abstract of a study that compared lower vs. higher tamoxifen to increase testosterone & sperm count. The lower amount was found to be just as effective as the higher amount.

    Andrologia. 1985 Jul-Aug;17(4):369-78.

    Effect of lower versus higher doses of tamoxifen on pituitary-gonadal function and sperm indices in oligozoospermic men.

    Dony JM, Smals AG, Rolland R, Fauser BC, Thomas CM.

    Administration of the antiestrogen tamoxifen for one month to 12 patients with idiopathic oligozoospermia significantly increased the mean basal testosterone (T) level and the responses of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) to constant luteinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) infusion but did not significantly influence the mean oestradiol (E2) levels or the E2 over testosterone ratio.

    Mean sperm concentration and total sperm output increased by about 70% after a mean treatment period of 5.5 +/- 0.4 months. No statistically significant difference was found between the two subgroups of patients treated with either the lower (5 or 10 mg once daily) or higher dose of tamoxifen (10 mg twice daily) with respect to basal or LHRH stimulated gonadotropin and testosterone response or the E2/T ratio and the effect on sperm density and total sperm output. In both subgroups the sperm motility and morphology remained unchanged.

    In conclusion higher doses of tamoxifen in this study prove not to be superior to lower doses in improving mean sperm density and total sperm output. The relative small percentage of patients achieving normalisation of only these sperm parameters pleads for further search for more effective selection of patients and other more effective treatment modalities in patients with idiopathic oligozoospermia.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Probably not...not for the purpose we are discussing here. It is probably best to go with one or the other. Here is an abstract of a study that compared lower vs. higher tamoxifen to increase testosterone & sperm count. The lower amount was found to be just as effective as the higher amount.

    Andrologia. 1985 Jul-Aug;17(4):369-78.

    Effect of lower versus higher doses of tamoxifen on pituitary-gonadal function and sperm indices in oligozoospermic men.

    Dony JM, Smals AG, Rolland R, Fauser BC, Thomas CM.

    Administration of the antiestrogen tamoxifen for one month to 12 patients with idiopathic oligozoospermia significantly increased the mean basal testosterone (T) level and the responses of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) to constant luteinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) infusion but did not significantly influence the mean oestradiol (E2) levels or the E2 over testosterone ratio.

    Mean sperm concentration and total sperm output increased by about 70% after a mean treatment period of 5.5 +/- 0.4 months. No statistically significant difference was found between the two subgroups of patients treated with either the lower (5 or 10 mg once daily) or higher dose of tamoxifen (10 mg twice daily) with respect to basal or LHRH stimulated gonadotropin and testosterone response or the E2/T ratio and the effect on sperm density and total sperm output. In both subgroups the sperm motility and morphology remained unchanged.

    In conclusion higher doses of tamoxifen in this study prove not to be superior to lower doses in improving mean sperm density and total sperm output. The relative small percentage of patients achieving normalisation of only these sperm parameters pleads for further search for more effective selection of patients and other more effective treatment modalities in patients with idiopathic oligozoospermia.
    Wow - you amaze me with the information you have and are willing to offer to others. Reps and thanks.
    •   
       


  6. ok so i have just got over a really nasty cold, well not fully but am on my way. do you think clomid could have a hand in lowering m estrogen and allowing me to get sick?? maybe i should lower the dose to 10mg?

  7. Clomid doesnt lower estrogen levels it just blocks receptors from binding to estrogen by binding to the estrogen receptor in place of estrogen. I dunno if it had an affect on the cold or not....I dont get sick when i take clomid...maybe you just caught a bug or bad allergies. Happens to everybody every once in a while. Good luck -things seem to be going well. Very interesting.

  8. King-fish,

    I'll be joining the low dose Clomid ranks w/i a day or so. I ordered some 1ml measured medicine droppers and await delivery. I'll be using a combination of pills and liquid.

  9. Are there any studies showing the affect of low dose Clomid stacked with with low dose Proviron? If resetting HPTA is the goal, with the hidden agenda of increasing libido, would there be a benefit to a Clomid/Proviron stack?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Are there any studies showing the affect of low dose Clomid stacked with with low dose Proviron? If resetting HPTA is the goal, with the hidden agenda of increasing libido, would there be a benefit to a Clomid/Proviron stack?
    I would say that libido would be back faster than usual. Proviron is good for lowering SHBG.
    Freedom means nothing here.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    I would say that libido would be back faster than usual. Proviron is good for lowering SHBG.
    It would seem so to me, but that was just my supposition. I was thing about a really low proviron dose; possibly something like 12.5 mg/ed.

  12. Well the good news, at least for myself, is that I don't think one has to stay on this therapy all the time. I have been off of it for one month and I still feel great mood, libido and just oily faced horndog-wise.

    Granted, I am only doing this by "feel" without bloodwork, but so far, so good. I always have the option of jumping back into it if I start to feel less, ahem, manly. I'm getting lots of sun/vitamin D every day and I know from experience that that helps enormously. We will see what transpires this winter.

    As far as adding more to the therapy..it depends on if you feel you are recovered or not. In my case, the clomid did wonders so I was loathe to modify it in any way.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Well the good news, at least for myself, is that I don't think one has to stay on this therapy all the time. I have been off of it for one month and I still feel great mood, libido and just oily faced horndog-wise.

    Granted, I am only doing this by "feel" without bloodwork, but so far, so good. I always have the option of jumping back into it if I start to feel less, ahem, manly. I'm getting lots of sun/vitamin D every day and I know from experience that that helps enormously. We will see what transpires this winter.

    As far as adding more to the therapy..it depends on if you feel you are recovered or not. In my case, the clomid did wonders so I was loathe to modify it in any way.
    Thanks for your input. I'm sure I'll take the wait and see approach - but was curious if this might be a good way to go if something additional is needed.
  14. Post


    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Thanks for your input. I'm sure I'll take the wait and see approach - but was curious if this might be a good way to go if something additional is needed.
    Well there are multiple ways to lower SHBG or SHBG affinity to bind with Test. Proviron (an illegal steroid) is not the only way to this. Nettle Root extract standardized for Div. is a natural herbal way of doing it. I wouldn't suggest that you use the following solely for this purpose but low doses of Insulin will also lower SHBG.

    Here is an interesting study:

    Title: Comparative effects of GH, IGF-I and insulin on serum sex hormone binding globulin.

    Author: Gafny, M : Silbergeld, A : Klinger, B : Wasserman, M : Laron, Z

    Citation: Clin-Endocrinol-(Oxf). 1994 Aug; 41(2): 169-75

    Abstract:

    OBJECTIVE: The serum level of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) changes inversely with that of both insulin and insulin-like growth factor (IGF-I), during several nutritional conditions, as well as in response to GH treatment. However, with exogenous IGF-I administration, endogenous IGF-I increases, while insulin decreases. In order to study the separate roles of these hormones in controlling SHBG metabolism, we compared SHBG levels in patients treated with IGF-I and GH.

    DESIGN AND PATIENTS: Serum levels of IGF-I, insulin and SHBG were measured before and during the treatment of patients with IGF-I or GH. Blood samples were drawn in the fasting state, prior to and during therapy, 24 hours after drug administration. Sixteen children and adults with Laron syndrome (LS) received daily s.c. injections of IGF-I (120-150 micrograms/kg) for up to 5 months. Three adults with isolated GH deficiency (IGHD) received daily s.c. injections of GH (0.03-0.06 U/kg) for 16 months. Two groups of nine prepubertal children with constitutional short stature (CSS) received GH (0.1 U/kg/day) for 3 months.

    MEASUREMENTS: Serum levels of insulin and acid extractable IGF-I were determined by RIA, and that of SHBG by IRMA.

    RESULTS: Basal insulin and SHBG levels were within normal range in the LS, IGHD and CSS patients. IGF-I levels were low in LS and IGHD patients, and normal in the CSS children. The mean peak response to chronic therapy was as follows: in LS patients, IGF-I administration decreased insulin levels to 62%, and increased SHBG levels by 64% above basal values. Chronic GH therapy in IGHD caused a marked rise in both IGF-I levels (473%), and insulin levels (96%), and a gradual decline of SHBG to 75% of the basal concentration. In GH treated CSS patients, serum IGF-I peaked at 80% and insulin levels at 102% above the respective basal levels, while SHBG decreased to 83% after 5 days of treatment.

    CONCLUSION: The results obtained in Laron syndrome, isolated GH deficiency and constitutional short stature patients treated with IGF-I or GH, indicate that serum insulin had consistently an inverse relation with the levels of circulating SHBG. No relation was found between IGF-I and SHBG levels.

  15. Thread BUMP

  16. Bump X2
    Don't leave us hanging king!
    Any bloodwork?

  17. im very sorry guys it completly slipped my mind, i took bloodwork a couple days before hoping onto cycle turns out he clomid therapy which lasted for roughly a month at 25mgs daily worked, my test levels increased dramatically
    before therapy test levels were 255ngg/ml
    after test levels were 650ngg/ml

    so i wont have to resort to trt after this cycle knowing that my body can still rebound. plus ontop of the pct ill be running growth so im sure that will aid in the pct process.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by king1033 View Post
    im very sorry guys it completly slipped my mind, i took bloodwork a couple days before hoping onto cycle turns out he clomid therapy which lasted for roughly a month at 25mgs daily worked, my test levels increased dramatically
    before therapy test levels were 255ngg/ml
    after test levels were 650ngg/ml

    so i wont have to resort to trt after this cycle knowing that my body can still rebound. plus ontop of the pct ill be running growth so im sure that will aid in the pct process.
    Did you experience any of the "emotional" sides @ 25 mg/ED? I've noticed some on-the-fringe emotional feelings/reactions at 12.5 .g to 15 mg/ED.

    If you don't mind me asking, what is your age? The question is prompted only out of curiosity and as a comparison against my own age.

  19. no i understand im in my ealry 20's,

    sides were definatly there emotionally because i would find myself on the verge of tearing if something was very sad like homeless kid commercials or sad endings to movies, it was pathetic lol. during clomid therapy i have found a girl and coming off the therapy i still find this girl attractive and very nice so luckily i didnt make the DBT previously mentioned.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by king1033 View Post
    no i understand im in my ealry 20's,

    sides were definatly there emotionally because i would find myself on the verge of tearing if something was very sad like homeless kid commercials or sad endings to movies, it was pathetic lol. during clomid therapy i have found a girl and coming off the therapy i still find this girl attractive and very nice so luckily i didnt make the DBT previously mentioned.
    Thanks for being candid. For me, it seems as if the sides are more likely to prompt feelings of insecurity; as if I really need that. But knowing the cause helps overcome the irrationality of it. And I'm only on 12.5 to 15 mg/ED.

    The rest of it is a plus. I have more random provocative thoughts and am experiencing the other desired results. So, all in all, I am staying the course. Its only been a little over a week, and I'm seeing the benefits.

    How long did it take before you really felt the affects?

  21. Are there any studies for using torem in place of clomid that anybody knows of? My test came back on the low end at 309 and am looking to boost it up possibly with a serm. I don't really like clomid because of the emotional sides.

  22. okay, well since clomid is tried and true, i'm going to give it a try. I'll post back in a couple months with bloodwork while on the clomid. And then i'll followup a month later with more bloodwork to see if the effects stay.

  23. Wow king those results look amazing!

    I think people are overdosing the clomid and getting the SERIOUS emotional sides. 100mg/day is insane.
    A couple tears after a movie is nothing. I could stand a little sensitivity anyway. The sides seem WELL worth the results!


    Omega,
    Torem works pretty well for me. I actually get the emotional sides with it too with high doses. I dosed Torem @60mg/day and sides weren't bad, and results were great!
  24. Thumbs up


    Quote Originally Posted by king1033 View Post
    im very sorry guys it completly slipped my mind, i took bloodwork a couple days before hoping onto cycle turns out he clomid therapy which lasted for roughly a month at 25mgs daily worked, my test levels increased dramatically before therapy test levels were 255ngg/ml after test levels were 650ngg/ml

    so i wont have to resort to trt after this cycle knowing that my body can still rebound. plus ontop of the pct ill be running growth so im sure that will aid in the pct process.

    - Nice to read this.

    I think Clomid's primary effectiveness is that it initially is selective to the pituitaty which causes the pituitary to secrete higher levels of FSH and LH.

    Tamoxifen is slower to act in increaing LH because it is initially selective to estrogen-receptors in breast, bone, and liver tissue.

    I have discovered that other compounds that act to stimulate LH make recovery easy as well. Insulin even at low dose stimulates LH. I know people shy away from it but they seem willing to use (actually abuse) HCG which IMHO could have long-term consequences.

    My recovery is quick w/ Clomid PCT...it is even quicker if I use insulin on cycle BUT it is super quick if I am using CJC-1295 and GHRP-6 to elevate my GH levels.

    IGF-1 is an expensive but effective way to speed recovery as well.

    My point is that running CJC-1295/GHRP-6 on cycle (which also will elevate IGF-1) will help recovery and maybe prevent the sorts of long-term problems guys seem to have post-cycle.

  25. Im currently on cycle now and the point of the short term clomid therapy was to see if i still had the ability to rebound... so if i decided to do another cycle i wouldnt have to result to TRT. but my PCT for this cycle is going to consist of GH/clomid/nolva (if needed) GH (4iu ED) will also be run on cycle for a total of 4 months i wanna keep it short term due to the fact that the growth is generic. but things should be interesting. you can check out my cycle in the steroids forum or the cycle forum i forget which one its in lol
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. im 21, low test levels?
    By o-dub in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-09-2005, 11:00 PM
  2. oK TO TAKE ph'S WITH LOW TEST LEVELS???
    By JordyRoc in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 04-20-2005, 09:21 AM
  3. Polyunsaturated fats and low test levels
    By IPR in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-10-2003, 07:03 PM
  4. Low Test Levels in Men are harmful
    By Matthew D in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-05-2003, 06:43 AM
  5. low test levels
    By Sanosuke in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-21-2002, 10:08 PM
Log in
Log in