Permanent recovery of DHEA balance ?

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    Permanent recovery of DHEA balance ?


    Apparently, as a result of a long severe stress period a year ago, my DHEA and androgen levels dropped, and cortisol likely went up, permanently. Since I don't have any previous blood tests, I cannot tell for sure what happened, but I did lose acne that I've always had, and my DHEA is half of what I think it should be, based on my age, diet and physical activity. I'm not very happy with my IGF-1 level either.

    I have understood that high cortisol characteristic of stress periods has the ability to permanently screw up some hormone balances, like T3/reverse T3, so I assume it can also permanently screw up DHEA/cortisol balance.

    Now people who have (semi)permanent testosterone supression from steroids use certain protocols, esp. with Clomifene that usually give permanent recovery. Are there any known permanent DHEA recovery methods ?

    Since DHEA/cortisol appear to be antagonistic and since testosterone and cortisol are also antagonistic, would raising my test through AI-s also increase the DHEA, even temporarily ?

    I do use / have used many adaptogens / hormone recovery / cortisol suppressant supplements, like tongkat ali, acetylcarnitine, rhodiola, ginseng, Siberian ginseng, phosphatidyl serine; I recently introduced Toco8 tocopherol-tocotrienol complex, aniracetam and idebenone. Tongkat ali appeared to make some difference but nothing has been very revolutionary.

    I do have severe supplement availability issues due to my geographical location.

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    Hrm, you may want to try supplementing with DHEA, Pregnenalone and low-dosing a SERM for 3-6 months to see where it gets you after. Chances are this will get your andogens back up to a good level but the question is will they stay there without the supplementation.

    I'm not a doctor but I know if that doesn't help, then you should talk to your doctor about adrenal fatigue first, and possibly TRT second as a last resort.

    I also know that cortisol blockers may help increase testosterone but it makes it harder for fatigued adrenals to heal. People with adrenal fatigue will supplement with cortef usually to allow the adrenals time to rest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blind12 View Post
    I do have severe supplement availability issues due to my geographical location.
    If you want to do it righ, you have to test,
    find out what is out of balance,
    do corrective action,
    then test again to see if it worked.

    There is Genova Diagnostics laboratory.
    It have international outposts just about everywhere on the globe.
    You do not have to live near them, as long as you are able to ship samples of blood, urine, saliva, stool, within resonable time (I think 2-3 days max).

    Diagnostic Laboratory Testing for Wellness & Preventative Medicine - Genova Diagnostics

    Start with these three tests:
    Adrenocortex Stress Profile
    Diagnostic Laboratory Testing for Wellness & Preventative Medicine - Genova Diagnostics

    Comprehensive Thyroid Assessment
    Diagnostic Laboratory Testing for Wellness & Preventative Medicine - Genova Diagnostics

    NutrEval
    Diagnostic Laboratory Testing for Wellness & Preventative Medicine - Genova Diagnostics

    Specially the NutrEval, it will give you a list of missing supplemets and daily dose for corrective action.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I also know that cortisol blockers may help increase testosterone but it makes it harder for fatigued adrenals to heal. People with adrenal fatigue will supplement with cortef usually to allow the adrenals time to rest.
    My cortisol was very high last time that I tested, so that part of the adrenals doesn't seem to be tired

    There was an anti-adrenal-fatique supplement called Reset-AD, I wonder if it might help... it is very hard for me to get though... I need someone to physically bring it here, mailed stuff gets taken away by customs and I get a "steeroid-import-attempt" into my records.

    Doctors here are clueless, or don't care, or both.
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    High cortisol means adrenal imbalances. I think it's possible to have high cortisol and low dhea and this could still be signs of adrenal stress / fatigue. To give your adrenals a rest (pumping out high amounts of cortisol stresses them and they won't function properly) people usually take cortef, a cortisol drug. This allows the adrenals to rest from producing it's own and brings things back into balance. Should be done under the supervision of a dr though. Blocking cortisol will only stress the adrenals further into wanting/trying to produce more cortisol...and it could also cause a cortisol rebound with you.

    Sucks that you can't import any supps even sold by mainstream conmpanies. DHEA + pregnenalone (pregnenalone is in Reset AD) would help someone like you...and these are not banned substances. Shouldn't the government know that?

    Which country are you in?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    High cortisol means adrenal imbalances. I think it's possible to have high cortisol and low dhea and this could still be signs of adrenal stress / fatigue. To give your adrenals a rest (pumping out high amounts of cortisol stresses them and they won't function properly) people usually take cortef, a cortisol drug. This allows the adrenals to rest from producing it's own and brings things back into balance. Should be done under the supervision of a dr though. Blocking cortisol will only stress the adrenals further into wanting/trying to produce more cortisol...and it could also cause a cortisol rebound with you.

    Sucks that you can't import any supps even sold by mainstream conmpanies. DHEA + pregnenalone (pregnenalone is in Reset AD) would help someone like you...and these are not banned substances. Shouldn't the government know that?

    Which country are you in?
    Estonia. I thought it was government's business to keep people sick enough so they mind their own business and don't poke their nose where it doesn't belong. Is this not a universal concept ?

    I just saw another endocrinologist today. He was totally clueless, even regarding basic hormonal interactions, and totally didn't give a damn. And he has the reputation of one of the best endos in the country

    I thought that adaptogens, phosphatidyl serine and other cortisol lowering supplements aren't blockers but reduce stress response and cortisol release through that ? Anyway, adrenal fatigue, quality of life etc are non-words to the local doctors. If you're not dying, the only thing they offer is anti-depressants.

    BTW once you're dying, all they offer is painkillers to reduce your suffering. This too is based on real-life experience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blind12 View Post
    Estonia. I thought it was government's business to keep people sick enough so they mind their own business and don't poke their nose where it doesn't belong. Is this not a universal concept ?

    I just saw another endocrinologist today. He was totally clueless, even regarding basic hormonal interactions, and totally didn't give a damn. And he has the reputation of one of the best endos in the country

    I thought that adaptogens, phosphatidyl serine and other cortisol lowering supplements aren't blockers but reduce stress response and cortisol release through that ? Anyway, adrenal fatigue, quality of life etc are non-words to the local doctors. If you're not dying, the only thing they offer is anti-depressants.

    BTW once you're dying, all they offer is painkillers to reduce your suffering. This too is based on real-life experience.
    If you can use this endo to give you the scripts that you want, you are half way there.

    Does not have to be that particular endo, any doc who is allowed to write scripts will do.

    35 years ago my Mom need hip replacement (in Poland).
    I brought the prostetis from England and we read the instructions with the doc, on how to put it in.
    Mom was walking on it for over 30 years.
    Latter, in USA, she had the other hip done, it did not worked as good as the first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    If you can use this endo to give you the scripts that you want, you are half way there.

    Does not have to be that particular endo, any doc who is allowed to write scripts will do.
    Yes but the ones I've seen so far would never admit there is something they don't know, and quality of life is a non-issue for them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blind12 View Post
    Yes but the ones I've seen so far would never admit there is something they don't know, and quality of life is a non-issue for them.
    It is not going to get any better.
    While you still have a choice, that is while your remaining health keeps you functional, you have to make decission on what action you will take.

    Reading internet and buying known or unknown herbs is not going to work.

    You need good testing and logical/informed action based on those tests.
    That already is very difficult task.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    If you want to do it righ, you have to test,
    find out what is out of balance,
    do corrective action,
    then test again to see if it worked.

    There is Genova Diagnostics laboratory.
    Have they been of significant help, to you or someone you personally know ?

    Are their prices different in different countries ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by blind12 View Post
    Have they been of significant help, to you or someone you personally know ?

    Are their prices different in different countries ?
    I have very timely tid bit of information that may shed some light.
    Estonia may be a livable place after all.

    Sargovar is planning trip from Finland to Estonia.
    Supposedly one can bribe a doctor in Estonia for the script that he needs.

    MuscleChatRoom.com

    Why do not you two guys discuss this between yourselves.
    Sargovar is knownedgable with procedural details and testing,
    he can help you there on the spot.

    You may know some prospective local doctors.
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