TRT WORKS, My results have been amazing!!
- 05-22-2008, 06:24 PM
TRT WORKS, My results have been amazing!!
I was skeptical at first but I am a true believer now. I have been on TRT for better than 6 months now and the results are nothing short of amazing! My total test number was 235 when I was first tested and was told that for a 40 year old man this was too low and could be causing allot of my health issues. I was diagnosed with Hypogonadism and was put on Testim 5 grams daily, I did OK with Testim but was concerned about the possibility of transference to my young daughter, so I switched to injections. I started out at 200mg every 2 weeks, then went to 100mg every week and ended up with my optimal dose at 200mg Test E every 7 days along with 1/2 MG of Armidex 3x weekly. The main thing with TRT is that it is not an exact science and everyone is different and may require different doses and combinations to find your sweet spot. Once I got my dose dialed in and my numbers were great I started to feel like a new man. I have been able to get off my BP medicine, my cholesterol medicine and I have even recently stopped taking Prozac as well. I had been having issues with BP, Cholesterol, and Anxiety/Depression for years and it all just went away once this treatment took hold. I started out at 225lbs with a 38inch waist, I am now 205lbs with a 34inch waist and my muscles are bigger and more defined than ever. I now have a decent six pack instead of a keg! I am stronger now than ever before and feel like I am in my 20's again, not to mention what it has done for my sex life. I wish I would have found this out years ago and I hope that anyone new to TRT has the patience and resolve to stay the course until they get it right. Having a great doctor who is willing to listen to you is key, if your doctor tries to force the standard 200mg every 2 weeks with no AI treatment down your throat without being open to adjusting and listening to you FIND A NEW ONE!! Stick with it, IT WILL WORK AND YOU WILL BE A NEW MAN (YOUR WIFE WILL LOVE IT TOO!!) GOOD LUCK.
- 05-22-2008, 06:38 PM
Do you have blood work before starting and where you are now? it would be cool to see.
Also did you try HCG as a first option then do TRT?
Is this primary or secondary hypogonadism?
- 05-22-2008, 06:59 PM
05-22-2008, 07:51 PM
What a great story. I'm looking forward to similar results.
I picked up my first vial of T cyp today and I'm now trying to figure out how to get it into my body. I hate shots!
05-22-2008, 08:02 PM
Current test reading is 950 and has been consistantly between 895 an1000 the last 3 tests. I am not using HCG, I have seen some testicular atrophy but not that bad. My doctor does a good job of reading the blood tests and asking you how you feel as well. I am at the high end of normal but that is where I feel the best, doc says some people feel fantastic at 600 or even 400, we are all different.
05-22-2008, 08:55 PM
These are just an observation I have seen in clincal practice. Yes numbers look out of range and are most likely above normal ranges for a male at 15 years old even. Over all ?I am glad you are feeling better thats main point, but the short term may feel good but learn term it may not be the best route as your body receptores and tissue normalize to the new levels.
05-23-2008, 01:30 PM
05-23-2008, 02:12 PM
05-23-2008, 02:23 PM
my results and story are very similar to yours! at 40 years old I finally got on HRT because of many problems- no sex drive, tired all the time, terrible memory problems, etc, etc.., and now after 4 months of TRT I SWEAR TO YOU that I am every bit as good as I was at 20 and THEN SOME. My entire life and health has done a complete turn around and I can't believe I went 7 years feeling worse and worse before i found out about low testosterone symptoms. LOL
I also had the body changeover, and I look like a teenager on the wrestling team. My libito came back strong, and my mind (the thing that scared me the most) has returned. I am no longer standing in a room wondering why I went in there, or standing at the atm machine unable to remember my pin no#... this HRT stuff is unbelievable.
My wife gets the hammering she deserves now, and she even said that I got better at it, LOLOLOL (If that's possible-hehehe) and now when I take off my shirt to jump in the pool I feel like a superhero, instead of trying to see if I can get away with just wearing the t-shirt into the pool to hide my chubby belly. The HRT actually gave me abs again and definition I never knew I could have.
If you are a man that truly has low testosterone after doing bloodwork and honestly needs this HRT therapy, I'm telling you- do NOT take no for an answer if you have some dumb doctor who thinks like the media does about this issue. Get a doctor/clinic (like I did) who specializes in anti-aging medicine and get the treatment you need. If it does for you what it did for me, you will be glad you stood your ground and insisted on recieving the latest cutting edge treatments that are now available.
ok- I'm starting to sound like a commercial- good luck to all of you!
05-23-2008, 02:59 PM
05-23-2008, 06:55 PM
05-23-2008, 11:33 PM
05-24-2008, 12:31 AM
i take 200mg of test cyp per week, .3 arimidex EOD, and 250iu of HCG EOD.
as far as lab work, (there was a lot) but my cholesterol went down, and obviously my 300 testosterone level went up.
I used my GP for all the starting tests and the diagnosis, then he told me to find a clinic because he said that he wasn't a specialist in HRT, but my less that 1% free testosterone was an obvious sign that I needed the treatment. I called an online clinic in florida, and sent them all the labs from my doc and they got my treatment started.
I don't know if TRT works the same for everyone- but from reading these online posts and researching this stuff for almost 6 months, I would have to say that the guys who don't feel better are more often than not being given cream or patch treatments (NOT shots) and those who don't get at least 2 shots a week also seem to have complaints about how they feel (mostly the once every 2 week guys with GP's who don't know any better) but this is just what I have noticed from the posts I see. I also think the guys who can't get arimidex or HCG complain a lot that they felt good for a couple weeks but then they didn't feel good anymore after that.
I think that it's the responsibility of the patient to research his own condition, become an expert at it, and then seek out a compitent TRUE expert pysician or clinic who can oversee his care.
These message boards are loaded with quite a few guys who seem to be letting the doctors tell them bad advice and then send them home with a medical bill and no satisfaction.
It's a shame that so many people are willing to let themselves be treated that way. The information is out there if you wanna learn, and the doctors and clinics who truly DO want to help are also out there if are willing to find them.
05-24-2008, 04:26 PM
Sounds great Doug...like a broken record from most of us here. I too started TRT @ 40 y/o but now after 2 years I feel like I'm 22 y/o again!
I only inj. 100 mg/ml of test cyp. every week now ....I'm completely off the transdermals. (Testim/Androgel)
I still hate doing them though.
05-24-2008, 04:55 PM
My first 10ml vial of T cyp was only $50 at Walgreens. My insurance definately covered some but I don't know what it would have been without insurance. I'm glad I asked to start on the shots instead of transdermals. I keep reading where many that try the TD's first end up on shots later.
05-24-2008, 08:27 PM
My doc is doing other stuff too, says if the system gets fixed, my body might make more T. My progesterone was real low, and my dhea was low normal. I am also low on zinc and vitamin C, and low normal on magnesium and Vitamin D. He says everything works in concert. I am not sure if most doctors do the type of treatment I am getting (DHEA, pregnenolone, testosterone, mineral IV's, vitamin D shot, etc), don't most just give T?
05-25-2008, 06:51 AM
I think that most doctors accept the fact that 'odds-wise' it's better to suppliment the t for the patient while they troubleshoot the problem rather than make you continue to suffer for another year while they try alternative ways of getting you to produce your own t again, or assuming that your t would easily come back if they just corrected a vitamin problem or similar thing. This is JMO- but if I were a physician and a typical 50 year old with a pot belly and labs of 200testosterone were in my office, chances are that he is one of a lo-o-o-ong line of men with the same common problem- so I would treat it as such for the meantime, and ask the patient how far he wanted to go into the realm of testing to rule out the possibility that he was an exception. But that's just me.
05-25-2008, 10:00 AM
Yeah, my doc is doing that with me while he works on the other stuff. I was a pot bellied dude 3 years ago, but I have been busting ass for 3 years and am down to where I just look like I need to lose 15-20lbs! lol
The difficulty losing the last 20 lbs and my low libido were what led me to the doctor.
05-25-2008, 10:58 AM
05-25-2008, 03:24 PM
05-25-2008, 04:16 PM
05-25-2008, 04:42 PM
05-25-2008, 10:22 PM
05-26-2008, 03:08 AM
Actually, I think there is some middle ground. I was on T-cyp, 100 mgs., and hCG, 500 IUs, per week, as my initial protocol. My numbers looked good, though a little on the high end for DHT and E2. I added Adex at .25 mgs EOD, and dropped the T-cyp down to 75 mgs. After a several weeks at 75 mgs of T-cyp, I cut the T-cyp loose, and then gradually increased the hCG over the course of a month to 1500 IUs E3D (and Adex .3 mgs on shot days). I never felt any worse during the transition, relative to when I had been taking T-cyp, nor did I lose strength or weight, and am pretty certain that the hCG and the Adex were enough to keep my T levels within a healthy range. I did all this under the strong assumption that I am a strong hCG responder, like Colkurtz. After several weeks at higher hCG doses, I began feeling far better.
I'll get my first monotherapy lab results back next week, and will share the results.
Keep the faith -- mono works for some of us.
Last edited by jinxie; 05-26-2008 at 03:10 AM. Reason: always more to say
05-26-2008, 10:21 AM
I believe that HCG therapy works for the vast majority of secondary patients. The problem is that most are afraid, or unwilling to take the necessary dose. I haven't seen anyone else in this forum who has taken as much as I did for an extended period of time.
05-26-2008, 01:44 PM
I never felt great on the T-cyp/hCG combo. I started making gains at the gym, and didn't ache for days like I had before (such that I couldnt even exercise at all), but it pales in comparison to the hCG monotherapy. I'm really looking forward to seeing my numbers. I am hopeful that they are mid to upper, and not in the ether. That's what I expect.
As for your former dose, it's specificially contemplated by the package insert, so I would not expect any harm at such a dose for less than a year. Longer term, maybe. My sense is that all of the densitization talk on these boards originated from a few doctors, including Dr. Crisler. I am not discrediting him or his opinion, though I am not so sure it is supported by a creditable medical source.
Thanks to you and Old Gator, I gave this a shot, and am forever thankful.
Keep on keepin' on.
05-26-2008, 02:35 PM
You were shut down for a very brief time. It's a good thing you switched when you did. I doubt you will need that much HCG to get your testicles working again. Try to have your draw at 7 AM in the morning, within 36 - 48 hours of your last shot - your levels should be at their highest. If you're not pleased with the results you can consult with your doc about increasing the dosage or wait for a retest. I would probably opt to retest.
05-26-2008, 03:16 PM
Selected cases of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism in males:
500 to 1,000 USP Units three times a week for three weeks, followed by the same dose twice a week for three weeks.
4,000 USP Units three times weekly for six to nine months, following which the dosage may be reduced to 2,000 USP Units three times weekly for an additional three months.
See, 4k IUs, three times per week, for nine months!
As for me, I know I will not need to go that high. I dont plan on going any higher than I am, as I am feeling better. I am not one of these types that feels compelled to chase numbers. I am looking for qualitative, not quantative, health. I already tested at the 72 hour mark, at 9 a.m. Close enough. I assume my FT is between 150 and 200, but as long as it's in the normal range, I will be fine with it. I mostly tested to manage my E2.
05-26-2008, 06:41 PM
Post you test results.
I think you will know your status better 3 - 4 months after you have started this routine.
Not sure how much difference it would make, but 1000iu E2D is also a 3500iu/week.
It would be nice if this particular dose would work for you, it is sort of "magical" number.
HCG comes in 1000, 1500, 2000iu packages.
Each one can easily be manipulated into 3500iu/week between E3D and E2D schedules.
When dealing with 1500 and 1000 there is no need to worry about refigiration or waste.
05-26-2008, 06:51 PM
05-26-2008, 10:50 PM
05-26-2008, 11:30 PM
05-27-2008, 12:11 AM
Last edited by colkurtz_spf; 05-27-2008 at 12:50 AM.
05-27-2008, 12:24 AM
If by some remote chance I survive a nuclear holucaust, and there's no HCG to be found I know what to expect, and it's not that bad.
05-27-2008, 12:37 AM
05-27-2008, 01:51 AM
" If you are secondary, monotherapy is a NO brainer. Unfortunately, on the boards, there is a push to start T immediately. This is misguided in my opinion. hCG stimulation should be tried unless secondary is ruled out."
Sorry but you're wrong.
I'm glad that a couple of you have had success without the T replacement and AI... but from the 100's of testimonials I've read, most men who tried HCG alone were very dissapointed in the results and had to go with injections. Myself included.
05-27-2008, 02:35 AM
I never said everyone would have better results with hCG. I said anyone who may be secondary should rule out the issue before proceeding to Testosterone. If you did, good for you. If you didn't have good results, I would imagine there is a fair chance that you were not working with a good and patient doctor. That said, it is certainly possible that you could not get your T levels as high as you wanted them via hCG and your testicles, in which case Testestorone is necessay.
Sorry for the smart alleck remark, but I found your reply to be non constructive. I would recommend some basic logic studies, beginning with conditional ("if . . . then") statements, and then reevaluating your response to my post.
05-27-2008, 07:56 AM
Can you infinitely keep going at 3500iu/week? Are you not worried about long-term Leydig cell desensitization or is that not a concern?
05-27-2008, 08:04 AM
Are you sure that you are secondary and HCG is not working for you?
By definition you must be primary, if you can't be stimulated by using HCG.
There is noting wrong in using testosterone in that case.
There must be a grades between secondary and primary, to figure that out use hcg stimulation test.
OTOH you may have done you HCG experiment wrongly.
When I was using Androgel for couple years my testis were shriveled to zero. I was not able to feel them.
When I started HCG I would do only a little bit of it.
I was doing the standard around here, the 250iu E3D.
Within a month my testis grew back and I thought that was all I will get.
Then I found a research. I described it in my post #62
I increased to 380Iu EOD
My testis grew still bigger.
As we are discussing this HCG topic I am now at 500iu EOD, and felt additional size increase and firmness.
My long way to tell you that testis when shut down, need a lots of time to revive and a proper HCG dose.
Possibly you still have a chance.
Possibly your test was not done right.
05-27-2008, 08:13 AM
Dosage in males:
5000iu twice weekly for 12 weeks and may have continue even for 1 year to improve semen quality.
They are concerned about fertility only.
After women conceives men is disposable.
It may take up to a one year for shutdown testis to rebuild.
Long term HCG use have not been studied, (large or small dose)
After a year one is not worst of as if he newer tried.
There is not tham nany long term, over a year long studies.
If one can do something for a year, most likey he can do it much longer.
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