Injections or Gel?

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    Injections or Gel?


    Currently running 5grams Androgel daily. Not seeing any kind of epic results from it so far as energy levels/libido go. I'm seeing a new endo now and he's given me some options. His first suggestion was for me to try testim. I questioned him about the use of injections instead and he was a bit more hesitant about it, but he said he could probably do that as well. He's concerned about injections because I'm still young (25 yo) and he still thinks I'm going to come off TRT one day and be fine (after 6-12 months of being off). Supposedly injections are far more suppressive than topicals. We would be doing 100/mg test a wk if we went that route.

    Question is for those that have tried both 5gr gel a day vs. 100mg test injections/wk. Which is more effective so far as general mood/energy/libido?

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rausch View Post
    Currently running 5grams Androgel daily. Not seeing any kind of epic results from it so far as energy levels/libido go. I'm seeing a new endo now and he's given me some options. His first suggestion was for me to try testim. I questioned him about the use of injections instead and he was a bit more hesitant about it, but he said he could probably do that as well. He's concerned about injections because I'm still young (25 yo) and he still thinks I'm going to come off TRT one day and be fine (after 6-12 months of being off). Supposedly injections are far more suppressive than topicals. We would be doing 100/mg test a wk if we went that route.

    Question is for those that have tried both 5gr gel a day vs. 100mg test injections/wk. Which is more effective so far as general mood/energy/libido?

    Thanks!
    You have to post your test results, name, value, units, ranges

    If you are secondary, you may not need any testosterone at all, just HCG.

    5grams of gel often is not enough
    100mg/week test often is not enough.

    Transdermals cause increase in DHT, if that is what you need, fine, if you end up with sky high DHT do not use anything to lower it, just change to injections.
    Test DHT, do not get talked into not testing it.

    Go by blood test results.
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    .
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    I was on the Androgel and I was in the same boat, I felt no better. After trying the IM it was a world of difference. My libido shot back up, my moods were better, depression was gone and I was finally sleeping well.

    I cannot offer any information on which is more suppressive but I can tell you I am very happy to be taking the shots.
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    There's also T-Cream


    As JanSz pointed out, different things work for different people. In my case, in addition to low test I had low libido which was tied - IMO - to low DHT.
    My doc prescribed a compounded cream. Now, 3 months later I feel great and libido is way up. DHT tripled from 30 to 90 and boosted libido. 90 is not too high IMO although I do take saw palmetto. If I did injections I probably wouldn't get much DHT increase and libido could still be in toilet.
    Always be sure to measure DHT before and during TRT. I mention it because many docs don't bother asking for it on BW forms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGator View Post
    As JanSz pointed out, different things work for different people. In my case, in addition to low test I had low libido which was tied - IMO - to low DHT.
    My doc prescribed a compounded cream. Now, 3 months later I feel great and libido is way up. DHT tripled from 30 to 90 and boosted libido. 90 is not too high IMO although I do take saw palmetto. If I did injections I probably wouldn't get much DHT increase and libido could still be in toilet.
    Always be sure to measure DHT before and during TRT. I mention it because many docs don't bother asking for it on BW forms.
    Very good point every ones body chemistry needs is different and what works for one will not work for the other thats for sure. I see this way too much and trying to find the magic recipee is an art form among drs in and of itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Very good point every ones body chemistry needs is different and what works for one will not work for the other thats for sure. I see this way too much and trying to find the magic recipee is an art form among drs in and of itself.

    Completly agree with you, everybody keeps wondering whats the best. I really think it just depends on the individual. As far as convience, shots are probably easier. Once a week and thats that. But they may not be right for certain people. Doc John suggests starting first with creams which makes sense. If after blood work you find you arnt responding well, just switch to shots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe143 View Post
    Completly agree with you, everybody keeps wondering whats the best. I really think it just depends on the individual. As far as convience, shots are probably easier. Once a week and thats that. But they may not be right for certain people. Doc John suggests starting first with creams which makes sense. If after blood work you find you arnt responding well, just switch to shots.
    I would explore first if the men is really primary and need testosterone.

    Being able to live off you own testoterone is a great advantage.

    HCG stimulation test can be done quiclky, so not much time is wasted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I would explore first if the men is really primary and need testosterone.

    Being able to live off you own testoterone is a great advantage.

    HCG stimulation test can be done quiclky, so not much time is wasted.

    .
    Why if test level can be controlled with say some cypionate?
    (other than fertility)
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    does anyone knows why dht is increased with creams/gels and not with injections?


    why dht is increased with use of gels/creams, but not with injections?
    and is dht primarily responsible for libido?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gellesar View Post
    why dht is increased with use of gels/creams, but not with injections?
    and is dht primarily responsible for libido?
    The 5 alpha reductase (testosterone is converted to DHT) is centralized in skin. Larger surface area more likely to convert to DHT when applied to the skin
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Isn't hcg suppressive in it's own right? I guess I don't see the point of hcg based on everything I have read because it would seem that if you are just trying to kick start your LH levels, then time and/or natural supps can do that. If that isn't the issue, then you would look at test, no?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Isn't hcg suppressive in it's own right? I guess I don't see the point of hcg based on everything I have read because it would seem that if you are just trying to kick start your LH levels, then time and/or natural supps can do that. If that isn't the issue, then you would look at test, no?
    If your on HRT in the first place Lh will be suppressed 95% of the time so adding alittle HCG to keep the receptors awake is not a bad idea, just not too much to over stimulate estradiol production. There is a fine line..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rausch View Post
    Currently running 5grams Androgel daily. Not seeing any kind of epic results from it so far as energy levels/libido go. I'm seeing a new endo now and he's given me some options. His first suggestion was for me to try testim. I questioned him about the use of injections instead and he was a bit more hesitant about it, but he said he could probably do that as well. He's concerned about injections because I'm still young (25 yo) and he still thinks I'm going to come off TRT one day and be fine (after 6-12 months of being off). Supposedly injections are far more suppressive than topicals. We would be doing 100/mg test a wk if we went that route.

    Question is for those that have tried both 5gr gel a day vs. 100mg test injections/wk. Which is more effective so far as general mood/energy/libido?

    Thanks!
    No comparison, 5g Androgel had me at ~116ng/dL and 120mgs Test C puts me over 900.
    Lift heavy and eat lots of dead animals! Yes, that's me in my avatar.
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    After all proper evaluations are completed (thyroid, adrenals, lifestyles,) age taken into a huge consideration <35 try to get them going on there own if possible.

    Your doctor may want to use a higher amount right off the bat then retest parameters in 7 days. If they are not higher then move on to the shots. Its as simple as that and will not create a decrease in quality of life for the typical 3 month waiting period by a typical endo. They stick you on 5 grams then come back in 5 months mean while your ability to function as a human declines, even after 4 weeks feeling like crap you call back and "your on T gel you should be feeling fine, Its all in your head I think you should go see a shrink" How many of us have heard that one !!
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    After all proper evaluations are completed (thyroid, adrenals, lifestyles,) age taken into a huge consideration <35 try to get them going on there own if possible.

    I suggest Dr;s use 10 grams right off the bat then retest parameters in 7 days. If they are not higher then move on to the shots. Its as simple as that and will not create a decrease in quality of life for the typical 3 month waiting period by a typical endo. They stick you on 5 grams then come back in 5 months mean while your ability to function as a human declines, even after 4 weeks feeling like crap you call back and "your on T gel you should be feeling fine, Its all in your head I think you should go see a shrink" How many of us have heard that one !!
    Whats your opinion on how high one should let DHT rise from transdermals before saying that its dangerous and having one switch to gels?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrj View Post
    Whats your opinion on how high one should let DHT rise from transdermals before saying that its dangerous and having one switch to gels?
    My concern is e2 in relationship to other hormones. Dht is not the issue its e2 which causes prostate problems. Dht >150-200 is where they may need to switch to injection. If the surface area on gels is small dht should not be an issue and site should be rotated.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    My concern is e2 in relationship to other hormones. Dht is not the issue its e2 which causes prostate problems. Dht >150-200 is where they may need to switch to injection. If the surface area on gels is small dht should not be an issue and site should be rotated.
    Not sure I agree. In my case at least it was the DHT and not E2 that caused prostatitis. Taking an AI like Aromasin will take care of E2 related prostrate problems easily, but if your prostrate is affected by DHT, it's going to be tricky to counter. I really wish DHT wasn't a problem, but it's a double edged sword. You need DHT if you want test to do its job, but there's a price to pay for too much DHT.
  

  
 

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