Any reason to taper down Test Cyp?

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    Any reason to taper down Test Cyp?


    I am going to go off TRT shortly. I am trying to get a handle on potential sleep apnea and am working on getting into great shape. I want to go off when I am at my "healthiest" to see where my baseline is and to see how I feel. Worse case, I have to go back on.

    In any event, is there any reason to taper down my test cyp shots, i.e. take 50mg's for a couple of weeks. Or should I just bite the bullet and go off? I guess what I am saying, assuming my total T right now is 800, is there any point to being at 400 for a few weeks or should i just 'get it over with". I know I will probably feel like crap until my system starts producing T again.

    (thanks, I am also considering a PCT type therapy as well see
    Best Way to Come Off TRT?


    My TRT Dr. says to do nothing, my PCP says to taper my test cyp, so the crash won't be as hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Random987 View Post
    I am going to go off TRT shortly. I am trying to get a handle on potential sleep apnea and am working on getting into great shape. I want to go off when I am at my "healthiest" to see where my baseline is and to see how I feel. Worse case, I have to go back on.

    In any event, is there any reason to taper down my test cyp shots, i.e. take 50mg's for a couple of weeks. Or should I just bite the bullet and go off? I guess what I am saying, assuming my total T right now is 800, is there any point to being at 400 for a few weeks or should i just 'get it over with". I know I will probably feel like crap until my system starts producing T again.

    (thanks, I am also considering a PCT type therapy as well see
    Best Way to Come Off TRT?


    My TRT Dr. says to do nothing, my PCP says to taper my test cyp, so the crash won't be as hard.
    It looks like you have made your decission.
    Short answer, just stop using testosterone.

    Assuming that you have correct test levels I think that you should continuue with testosterone, sleep apnea or not.

    Do you know for sure that you are primary and that your testis are not capable of producing some (natural) testosterone.

    You may want to switch to HCG only, and see how that will affect you.

    Read this:

    http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/men-s...tml#post583167
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    I am secondary. When I went on TRT my Total Test was in the low 300 range. My free T was below reference range. I weighed about 250 and was very out of shape.

    With respect to sleep apnea, I think there is a change this could contribute to low T:

    http://www.ats.org/news.php?id=45
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    Also:

    Obes Res. 2005 Apr;13(4):780-6.Links
    Altered luteinizing hormone and testosterone secretion in middle-aged obese men with obstructive sleep apnea.
    Lubo****zky R, Lavie L, Shen-Orr Z, Herer P.

    Endocrine Institute, Haemek Medical Center, Afula 18101, Israel. lubo****zky-r@clalit.org

    OBJECTIVE: To elucidate the causes for the decline in testosterone levels observed in men with obstructive sleep apnea (OSA). RESEARCH METHODS AND PROCEDURES: We determined serum luteinizing hormone (LH) and testosterone levels every 20 minutes between 7 pm and 7 am with simultaneous sleep recordings in five obese middle-aged men with OSA, in five age- and BMI-matched controls, and in six lean young healthy men. RESULTS: The mean and area under the curve (AUC) values of LH and testosterone were significantly lower in men with OSA compared with controls. Young controls had significantly more testosterone pulses of shorter interpulse duration than OSA subjects and middle-aged controls. After adjusting for age and BMI, the three groups differed in mean and AUC values of LH and testosterone. Analysis of covariance, using BMI as a covariate, revealed a statistically significant group effect on mean and AUC testosterone values (p = 0.03; p < 0.003, respectively). Eliminating young controls, there was a significant positive correlation between the amount of LH and testosterone secreted at night. After partialling out age alone and BMI alone, the mean LH and mean testosterone were still positively correlated. DISCUSSION: Thus, OSA is associated with decreased pituitary-gonadal function. The decline in testosterone concentrations is due to obesity and advanced age and to a lesser degree to sleep fragmentation and hypoxia.
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    Maybe you should talk to your doc about Clomid or the like to help restart your system when you stop T?
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    I did. He didn't think it was necessary. He only uses it with this steroid recovery patients. He said my levels should return naturally. Given my tendency to tinker, I think I am going to try some type of PCT....


    Quote Originally Posted by MarkLA View Post
    Maybe you should talk to your doc about Clomid or the like to help restart your system when you stop T?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random987 View Post
    I am secondary. When I went on TRT my Total Test was in the low 300 range. My free T was below reference range. I weighed about 250 and was very out of shape.

    With respect to sleep apnea, I think there is a change this could contribute to low T:

    http://www.ats.org/news.php?id=45

    Quote:
    "It is our hope that in the future, by correcting nighttime breathing patterns we will be able to stimulate hormone production and thereby raise libidos."

    -----------------------------------------------

    There is also another conclussion possible:

    raise testosterone,
    possibly sleep apnea will go away?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random987 View Post
    I did. He didn't think it was necessary. He only uses it with this steroid recovery patients. He said my levels should return naturally. Given my tendency to tinker, I think I am going to try some type of PCT....
    IMHO this is BS. You ARE a steroid recovery patient. You are recovering from legal steriod use. You are shutdown.

    Yes, your body *should* come back on it's own, but how quickly? how completely?

    Mark
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    I am curious why there hasn't been any further studies on this. There are some studies which demonstrate that TRT may cause or exacerbate apnea. However, there are other studies which show that apnea can cause low testosterone.

    I've been on TRT for four years and I still have breathing problems at night, so I figure I don't have anything to lose to try to address the apnea and see what this does to my test levels.

    Also, I am a little worried about fertility issues as well, so I think the timing is good to go off TRT.


    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Quote:
    "It is our hope that in the future, by correcting nighttime breathing patterns we will be able to stimulate hormone production and thereby raise libidos."

    -----------------------------------------------

    There is also another conclussion possible:

    raise testosterone,
    possibly sleep apnea will go away?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random987 View Post
    I am curious why there hasn't been any further studies on this. There are some studies which demonstrate that TRT may cause or exacerbate apnea. However, there are other studies which show that apnea can cause low testosterone.

    I've been on TRT for four years and I still have breathing problems at night, so I figure I don't have anything to lose to try to address the apnea and see what this does to my test levels.

    Also, I am a little worried about fertility issues as well, so I think the timing is good to go off TRT.
    Depending on who you listen to, I have seen opinion that suplementing with testosterone does not interfere with fertility.
    You just have to support your testis with enough of HCG and sometimes additionally with HMG.
    ============================== =============
    At first I would prefer to stay on T.
    If not susscesful after 6-9 months I would change and withdraw T.
    ============================== =============
    ON FERTILITY

    Data Sheet


    Dosage In The Male
    Hypogonadotropic hypogonadism
    1,000-2,000 I.U. PREGNYL, two to three times per week. If the main complaint is subfertility, additional doses of an FSH-containing preparation (75 I.U. FSH) daily or two to three times per week, may be given. This treatment should be continued for at least three months before any improvement in spermatogenesis can be expected. During this treatment testosterone replacement therapy should be suspended. Once achieved, the improvement may in some cases be maintained by hCG alone.
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    Even with HCG supplementation, the sertoli cells are not being directly stimulated by FSH. So, the "sperm factory" is not running optimally. Granted there are a few workers who are still in the factory, but production of sperm is being interfered with as a result of TRT.

    I agree that adding FSH should help, but this concern, in combination with my general desire to go off, leads me to a decision to stop.


    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Depending on who you listen to, I have seen opinion that suplementing with testosterone does not interfere with fertility.
    You just have to support your testis with enough of HCG and sometimes additionally with HMG.
    ============================== =============
    At first I would prefer to stay on T.
    If not susscesful after 6-9 months I would change and withdraw T.
    ============================== =============
    ON FERTILITY

    Data Sheet


    Dosage In The Male
    Hypogonadotropic hypogonadism
    1,000-2,000 I.U. PREGNYL, two to three times per week. If the main complaint is subfertility, additional doses of an FSH-containing preparation (75 I.U. FSH) daily or two to three times per week, may be given. This treatment should be continued for at least three months before any improvement in spermatogenesis can be expected. During this treatment testosterone replacement therapy should be suspended. Once achieved, the improvement may in some cases be maintained by hCG alone.
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    How long have you been on TRT for?
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    Four years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    How long have you been on TRT for?
  

  
 

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