Need Advice with HRT plan - not working

[dougpacker]

40 now - done bodybuilding in past but only one cycle of straight test.
Took 3 rounds of prohormone which I think crashed my natural.

About 14 months ago went to see a Doc (Test - .118!) and got on 2 IU daily of GH, 2 packets of Androgel, 1 cc of Nandrolone a week.
Felt 20 again for those three months.

Went off, stayed on Androgel and one month out felt 75 years old. Everything hurt.

Everything still hurts - no GH, no nandrolone, just androgel. Test level at .083 after two days off androgel.

I'd like to do HCG and get my natural levels back up - supplement with Androgel.
I hate to think about going the rest of my life on synth test.
But right now feeling like this sucks.
Everything hurts, zero sex drive, testicles ache....

Also thinking of 1c of nandrolone every two weeks.
Any input would be helpful.

 

[MacTech]

My dad, age 70, went on Androgel because he was hypogonadal. His test levels actually went down because of the poor efficacy of it and causing his own body to stop producing test.

He started to get bi-weekly injections just recently as states he feels much better.

Androgel will get you to low normal test levels, if it works properly.

 

[The Matrix]

40 now - done bodybuilding in past but only one cycle of straight test.
Took 3 rounds of prohormone which I think crashed my natural.

About 14 months ago went to see a Doc (Test - .118!) and got on 2 IU daily of GH, 2 packets of Androgel, 1 cc of Nandrolone a week.
Felt 20 again for those three months.

Went off, stayed on Androgel and one month out felt 75 years old. Everything hurt.

Everything still hurts - no GH, no nandrolone, just androgel. Test level at .083 after two days off androgel.

I'd like to do HCG and get my natural levels back up - supplement with Androgel.
I hate to think about going the rest of my life on synth test.
But right now feeling like this sucks.
Everything hurts, zero sex drive, testicles ache....

Also thinking of 1c of nandrolone every two weeks.
Any input would be helpful.

First of all your dr is a complete idiot for giving you deca in hrt second of all the prohormones did not crash you it was your staravation diet for body bulding that did you in and the stress ful life style. Before initating HRT my doctor and I examine people life style and other factors before even starting a person on TRT. In many cases TRT is a bandaid for deeper issues that drs are too fricken lazy to examine. Its like putting a new engine in the car with out checking for the oil or other things that could be simple to correct.

 

[Gutterpump]

My dad, age 70, went on Androgel because he was hypogonadal. His test levels actually went down because of the poor efficacy of it and causing his own body to stop producing test.

He started to get bi-weekly injections just recently as states he feels much better.

Androgel will get you to low normal test levels, if it works properly.

It can work well for many people, especially alongside hcg. Most people start out at 5g then go to 10g. Personally I am not really wanting to get on androgel unless I am able to get my test steadily over 900-1000 ng/dl while on it. I think most people can get around the 800 level on 10g if it's working right.

 

[The Matrix]

It can work well for many people, especially alongside hcg. Most people start out at 5g then go to 10g. Personally I am not really wanting to get on androgel unless I am able to get my test steadily over 900-1000 ng/dl while on it. I think most people can get around the 800 level on 10g if it's working right.

Androgel is worthless to most people becuase the carrier that they use is not the best. Many have had better success with compunded test gel at 5% or 10%. Your dr has to examine you for hypothyroid or adrenal issues for myodexema, but most drs do not even have a clue to WTF that is..

 

[Gutterpump]

Before initating HRT my doctor and I examine people life style and other factors before even starting a person on TRT. In many cases TRT is a bandaid for deeper issues that drs are too fricken lazy to examine. Its like putting a new engine in the car with out checking for the oil or other things that could be simple to correct.

I personally think some of these deeper issues can not be corrected in some cases, as in mine. I think it depends how long the individual had the problems for.

I was vegitarian for years and had horrible sleeping patterns and also partied a lot during this time. this was in my early 20s. I am now 30, and no matter how I eat, how I sleep, or what I supplement with (betaine hcl / oxbile / enzymes / zinc / mag, etc) I can not get my test to budge one bit in a positive direction. It's stuck. I think if people get it stuck for a very long period of time (ie: years and years), it's not going to be possible to correct it without HRT.

 

[JanSz]

Androgel is worthless to most people becuase the carrier that they use is not the best. Many have had better success with compunded test gel at 5% or 10%. Your dr has to examine you for hypothyroid or adrenal issues for myodexema, but most drs do not even have a clue to WTF that is..

Wel in my case 10gram of Androgel worked for me for few years. No AI required, had to put up with very high DHT.
When I switched to 10% T-cream, applying same amount of testosterone as previously in Androgel, got me 1/3 of previous T levels.

I am on T-injections now, and happy with it.
Just got my (screwed) blood test, looks like I am overshooting on AI, do not need as much as I thought. DHT almost perfect.

 

[MacTech]

Wel in my case 10gram of Androgel worked for me for few years. No AI required, had to put up with very high DHT.
When I switched to 10% T-cream, applying same amount of testosterone as previously in Androgel, got me 1/3 of previous T levels.

I am on T-injections now, and happy with it.
Just got my (screwed) blood test, looks like I am overshooting on AI, do not need as much as I thought. DHT almost perfect.

What were you using as an AI ? Did you have symptoms of low E?

 

[JanSz]

What were you using as an AI ? Did you have symptoms of low E?

While on Androgel I did not need any AI.
My DHT was sky high but I was not able to make a doc write a script for Depo-T.

Your mileage may wary, do blood testing.
Use Quest and the tests that I normally post.

 

[ItsHectic]

JanSz, what shot are you on, I am thinking about changing too cause of hair loss which minoxidil is keeping at bay.

 

[JanSz]

JanSz, what shot are you on, I am thinking about changing too cause of hair loss which minoxidil is keeping at bay.

I am on EOD schedule, every other day
T=0.255cc/shot
200mg/mL DepoT
0.255*200*7/2=178.5mg/week

Day #1 (T + AI)
Day#2 500iu HCG

Just got my (incomplete) blood test results.
My E2 is too low.

Old dose
Anastrozole=0.38*7/2=1.33cc/week

I will lower Anastrozole dose and also change to ED, every day schedule.
current 0.38 EOD
same as 0.38/2=0.19 ED
will change to 0.15 or 0.16 not sure yet,
but first I am taking a 7 days break from any Anastrozole.
0.15*7=1.05/week
0.16*7=1.12/week

Previous
E2=29(<29)
FreeE2=0.75(<or=0.45)
Current
E2=4
FreeE2=0.07(<or=0.45)

--------------

 

[The Matrix]

I personally think some of these deeper issues can not be corrected in some cases, as in mine. I think it depends how long the individual had the problems for.

I was vegitarian for years and had horrible sleeping patterns and also partied a lot during this time. this was in my early 20s. I am now 30, and no matter how I eat, how I sleep, or what I supplement with (betaine hcl / oxbile / enzymes / zinc / mag, etc) I can not get my test to budge one bit in a positive direction. It's stuck. I think if people get it stuck for a very long period of time (ie: years and years), it's not going to be possible to correct it without HRT.

Like I said in majority of cases not in all. TRT has it place but for some there could be underlying issues never explored before that give some new insight on what direction to take. Have you looked at digestive issue, methylation pathways, liver balancing, nutrient balancing, nutrient defeincy uncovered by the lastest testing? Our mission is to explore other options available or to complement traditional medicine. In the near future we will be working with autistsm, detoxfication issues, HRT, cancer, cystic fibrosis, ms and other disease to look at these deeper then typical medical community does and to use nutritional and lifestyle therapy to shed more light on hidden factors which will compliment current medical intervention.

 

[testodan]

40 now - done bodybuilding in past but only one cycle of straight test.
Took 3 rounds of prohormone which I think crashed my natural.

About 14 months ago went to see a Doc (Test - .118!) and got on 2 IU daily of GH, 2 packets of Androgel, 1 cc of Nandrolone a week.
Felt 20 again for those three months.

Went off, stayed on Androgel and one month out felt 75 years old. Everything hurt.

Everything still hurts - no GH, no nandrolone, just androgel. Test level at .083 after two days off androgel.

I'd like to do HCG and get my natural levels back up - supplement with Androgel.
I hate to think about going the rest of my life on synth test.
But right now feeling like this sucks.
Everything hurts, zero sex drive, testicles ache....

Also thinking of 1c of nandrolone every two weeks.
Any input would be helpful.

Man,the Deca ****ed you up..

 

[dougpacker]

Yep, fraid so.
Anyone got any experience with Deca?
I heard such great things about it but going off is awful.

Id much appreciate some advice on what to do now...

 

[Gutterpump]

Have you looked at digestive issue, methylation pathways, liver balancing, nutrient balancing, nutrient defeincy uncovered by the lastest testing? Our mission is to explore other options available or to complement traditional medicine. In the near future we will be working with autistsm, detoxfication issues, HRT, cancer, cystic fibrosis, ms and other disease to look at these deeper then typical medical community does and to use nutritional and lifestyle therapy to shed more light on hidden factors which will compliment current medical intervention.

I've tried many things to aid digestion, in case it were that, including dropping carbs from wheat sources, etc. I've also found out that I have a micro adenoma (although it doesn't seem to be secreting, prolactin seems fine). Who is it that you work with? Just curious. You seem to know all the main issues and cutting edge treatment, just like HAN does (not sure if you know him). At this point I'm probably looking into TRT alongside working with a nutritionist. I dropped my endo who wanted to give me 5gram gel with no hcg (she refused any hcg) and am planning on seeing dr john in the summer to take another look at things and likely start treatment since it looks like I am primary - LH + FSH are fine, test and other hormones are not.

 

[Gutterpump]

Yep, fraid so.
Anyone got any experience with Deca?
I heard such great things about it but going off is awful.

Id much appreciate some advice on what to do now...

I'm confused why deca would have been prescribed? haven't heard of that before.

 

[The Matrix]

JanSz, what shot are you on, I am thinking about changing too cause of hair loss which minoxidil is keeping at bay.

Hair loss could be a combination of many different things.
I have found balancing fats in proper ratio has lowered my dht by 50-70% with out medical intervention from these crazy as drugs. Examine other areas before jumping ship and blaming it on the cream. Most time people dht are high on androgel because it is applied right after and you get an intial spike that if you ran a 24 hour test it would show different results.