Saw Palmetto - Losing Mass

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  1. Saw Palmetto - Fin-like Symptoms


    Hey guys... first time poster here. I am in dire need of help. I was going through a bout of subtle hair loss but mistakingly took 320mg of Saw Palmetto extract. I avoided Fin due to the horror stories I've always hear people say SP is less effective and not even proven for hair loss. I was told to look for 500mg and take that twice daily, so I went to my supermarket and found a bottle of 320mg so I thought "OK, this is even less than 500mg and probably a placebo if anything". However, it was the extract version and I was not aware that is equivalent to 3200mg of the berry! I didn't find out until discontinuing due to symptoms. I had no idea that there was a berry powder and extract version. I took this crap for 9 days and now I'm a story myself even though I never touched Fin. It's been a living hell ever since (stopped 2/3/08) but the one thing that is really frustrating is that the body I worked so hard for over 6-7 years is rapidly deteriorating.

    Anyway, before this mess I was gifted with a great body and able to gain muscle easily. Since this fiasco I've lost a ton of mass despite maintaining my current routine. I only go to the gym 1-2 times a week but I was lean and cut. I'm down to ~165 and I'm 6'1".... I can still flat bench up to 225 1-2 times and use up to 90 pound freeweights (now need a spotter, though). Would Sustain Alpha and/or DTH help me in any way? I used to look great in a wife-beater but now even in fitted t-shirts it's not the same and kills my self-esteem. Post-workout I would stuff myself since I'd have a ravenous appetite (usually lean sirloin, starch, veggies) but now my appetite just isn't the same. I don't have ANY sex drive nor that testosterone-fueled confidence when I'm out at a bar (basically, being a man) alongside all the sexual sides. I've also never felt depression like this before (it's nearly suicidal and anti-depressants arent helping). I've gone from a 34" waist to barely fitting into a 33" and my neck has gone from 16.5" to 15.5" (and my face looks like crap). I had no idea this would happen and despite playing it safe with what I thought was a placebo (at least the 500mg version) I still got burnt. Any suggestions would be welcome. I refuse to believe this is permanent and I want to do everything I can to get my body back. I've worked too hard to let everything go in a matter of weeks.

    The list of symptoms is endless and I cannot believe I caused this much damage in 9 days - the worst part was that I was aware of the dangers of Fin - I had a script and did not fill it!!!!! I read stories over at propeciahelp.com and yet I'm still one of them and I feel like my life is over at 26. I don't know who I am anymore and I feel like this mistake has ruined my future.

    BTW - I will be seeing Shippen in a couple of weeks


  2. Here are my labs: 2/15/08

    DHEA 187 ng/DL (180-1250)
    DHEA Sulfate 356 mcg/dL (110-510)
    Prolactin, Serum 4.8 ng/dl (2.0-18.0)
    LH, Serum 1.9 mIU/mL (1.5-9.3)
    FSH, Serum 1.2 mIU/mL (1.6-8.0)
    Cortisol (AM) 19.9 mog/dL (4.0-22.0)
    T3, Total 113 mn/DL (60-181)
    T4 Free 1.18 ng/dL (0.8 – 1.8)
    TSH 0.93 mIU/L (0.40 – 4.50)
    Estradiol 32 pg/ML (13 – 54)
    PSA 0.5 (0.0-4.0)
    Progesterone 76 ng/dL (32-307)
    Androstenedione 97 ng/dL (50-220)
    Testosterone Total 419 ng/dL (250-1100)
    Testosterone % Free 1.35% (1.50-2.20)
    Testosterone, Free 56.6 pg/mL (35.0 -155.0)
    SHBG 40 (7-49 nmol/L)
    DHT 43 (25-75 ng/dL)
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  3. I am by no means a doctor nor do I have any experience with HRT. But do you think they're could possibly be an under lying factor to your mass loss? If I where you I would go to a doctor, and get checked out. I wish I could help more. Good Luck. Mark

  4. Stop taking it...your mass should return.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  5. I stopped taking it on 2/3/08. I only took it for 9 frickin days.
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  6. Your free test seems low. Try Act Extreme from DS.

  7. I'm going to avoid all supplements in the interim since this disaster. I had low libido to start with (was on Paxil for 6 years which I believe permanently lowered my libido) and my test was naturally low (400s) pre-SP so I'm assuming my DHT had to have been really low and I threw it out the window perhaps after one day of dosage. A mistake on my part shouldn't cost me my well-being, as well as my manhood. You have no idea how much I want to be Bill Murray in Groundhog Day and wake up on the day I started taking this s**t.

    It just pisses me off that I purposely avoided Fin and what I thought I was taking was low dosage SP. I decided NOT to take Fin and that's the worst part - hell, I almost returned this stuff and it's the one thing I'll probably regret for the rest of my life. My life has gone to hell since and everyday has been a nightmare. I'm praying Shippen can give me some good news. I'm doing a 24hr urine analysis, 7 days of Clomid, then bloodwork on the 8th day. I've never felt so unhealthy in my entire life when just 2 months ago I was in top shape. I can barely function at work, graduate school, and my personal life has fallen apart.

  8. That is quite a bit of damage in nine days only and extremely harsh for saw palmetto. I hope the extracts were pure. Did you take anything else along with it that might potentiate its effects, for instance, supplements or drugs such as iron supplements, blood thinners, testosterone boosters, or NSAIDs?
    Product Educator | USPowders
    Statements made by this online persona are the sole property of the owner, and do not necessarily reflect USPowders’ opinion as a whole.

  9. I know! Everyone has been very surprised by my reaction and doesn't believe that 9 days would've caused this. I would need a separate post to list all my symptoms but it's too damn depressing. All I was taking was a multivitamin (One-a-Day Maximum) and Omega 3 Fish Oil. Nothing else. My sleep has not been the same since which has caused a snowball effect of deteriorating physical/mental health.

    It's shame this stuff is available OTC with no warnings, poor labeling, etc. I try not to beat myself over this but it could've been avoided. I had no idea this would happen.

  10. I know you dont wanna take any suppliments but atleast try taking some ZMA for now or atleast a multi. This helped me with symptoms before.

  11. Your LH and FSH seem on the lower end as well. Almost looks like secondary hypogonadism.

  12. Yes... definitely looks like I unintentionally induced myself with secondary hypo. I cannot believe this is happening to me. The physical changes alone are devastating let alone the sexual/mental ones. We'll see what the Clomid test shows (.25mg for a week). No one my age should have to suffer like this. It feels like my life has been robbed from me.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Terp03 View Post
    Yes... definitely looks like I unintentionally induced myself with secondary hypo. I cannot believe this is happening to me. The physical changes alone are devastating let alone the sexual/mental ones. We'll see what the Clomid test shows (.25mg for a week). No one my age should have to suffer like this. It feels like my life has been robbed from me.
    I have a hard time believing that Saw Palmetto wreaked this kind of havoc on you. Maybe it knocked your DHT down some, but I cant imagine that much, and, in any event, it would not be irreversible damage.

  14. That's what I'm hoping, but I'm reaching the 2 month period since discontinuation without the slightest of improvements. All these symptoms simply weren't there prior to ingesting SP (especially when I was unknowingly ingesting 3200mg daily [that is a lot] when I thought I was taking 320mg). I'm trying to remain calm (Klonopin has been the only thing helping) but I have a lot of other stuff going on in my life and this series of events has come at the most inopportune time and has been completely overwhelming for someone who's just 26.
  15. Saw Palmetto Formula


    Quote Originally Posted by Terp03 View Post
    I was going through a bout of subtle hair loss but mistakingly took 320mg of Saw Palmetto extract. However, it was the extract version and I was not aware that is equivalent to 3200mg of the berry!
    I think this formula is a fairly popular one. I use "Advanced Prostate Formula" from Life Extension and the first ingredient is:

    Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens - berries) CO2 extract - 320mg

    Sounds like the exact same formula you speak of. Life Extension has a great rep and usually research the heck out of their ingredients. I have actually been taking this formula on and off for 5 years (I'm 51) and have not noticed the effects that you speak of. So I'm wondering "Is it the same formula you took?" and, if it is, could there be something else that has triggered your symptoms?

  16. I've been taking Saw Palmetto @ 2.7g/ED.

    I have not have any adverse reactions. I find it hard to believe Saw Palmetto did this. Esp after '9 days'.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by ReaperX View Post
    I've been taking Saw Palmetto @ 2.7g/ED.

    I have not have any adverse reactions. I find it hard to believe Saw Palmetto did this. Esp after '9 days'.
    Maybe the SP triggered some underlying condition? I do not know.... all I know is that I was taking 3200mg when I thought I was taking 320mg. 3200mg is a crapload. Maybe the formula I was taking was bad? I had no idea extract meant 10:1 ratio, none. This s**t ain't in my head though, believe that. Everyone has remarked on my rapid weightloss and the sexual/mental issues are extremely troubling.

    Here is the product which I bought at Giant, which ironically is now "Discontinued" as of a few weeks ago (I went to a few Giant stores and noticed this). The irony of it all. All of their other Healthy Ideas brand supps like Ginseng, Cranberry etc, remain on the shelves. Why was SP the only one discontinued? Seems shady if you ask me. I bought the last bottle last night for legal reasons should they arise.

    http://cgi.*********/HEALTHY-IDEAS-S...03090830a21395

  18. Hm, not sure on quality. The stuff I take is brand name: Sundown. They have it for a reasonable price at Wal-Greens.

    It is strictly Saw Palmetto though. There is no 'additional' herbal fillers. Not too sure on the extract of it either.

  19. I've always wondered exactly how effective Saw Palmetto is at blocking DHT. I know it is just 'word of mouth' that it is an herbal DHT blocker, but compared to fina, I'm not exactly sure how effective it is,.....or if it really works at all.

  20. That's the thing - I was trying to play it safe by taking a low dosage... when I read the label and it said 320mg I thought that was low compared to the 500mg I was looking for. I knew about Fin and stayed away from it after reading all the horror stores and side effects. I had a script from my Dr and did not fill it for crying out loud.

    I was going to test the waters with low doses of SP and see if I got side effects, then discontinue obviosuly. I had absolutely no idea that what I took was equivalent to 3200mg. I was looking for nothing more than 500mg, so a mistake on my part has cost me so much. I feel like I destroyed my life and I'm only 26. This just isn't fair. I made the decision not to touch Fin and my story is even worse than some of the guys over at propeciahelp.com. The body I've worked so hard for is rapidly deteriorating and it's so damn depressing. Everyday is a nightmare and I just want to be me again but am afraid that day will never come.

    ReapeX - You're taking the equivalent of 2700mg I assume? I was taking 500mg more.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Terp03 View Post
    That's the thing - I was trying to play it safe by taking a low dosage... when I read the label and it said 320mg I thought that was low compared to the 500mg I was looking for. I knew about Fin and stayed away from it after reading all the horror stores and side effects. I had a script from my Dr and did not fill it for crying out loud.

    I was going to test the waters with low doses of SP and see if I got side effects, then discontinue obviosuly. I had absolutely no idea that what I took was equivalent to 3200mg. I was looking for nothing more than 500mg, so a mistake on my part has cost me so much. I feel like I destroyed my life and I'm only 26. This just isn't fair. I made the decision not to touch Fin and my story is even worse than some of the guys over at propeciahelp.com. The body I've worked so hard for is rapidly deteriorating and it's so damn depressing. Everyday is a nightmare and I just want to be me again but am afraid that day will never come.

    ReapeX - You're taking the equivalent of 2700mg I assume? I was taking 500mg more.

    You are 26, its not the end of the world, its just a small set back.


    Have you considered trying a new brand ? Go to Wal-greens and checkout the brand that I'm using. It is made by 'Sundown'. It is relatively cheap.


    I'm not losing hair by any means, but I always try and avoid any type of medication if at all possible. The Saw Palmetto thing is just a health aid supplement.

    Yeah 2,700mg. That equates to around 6 caps.ed.

  22. I'm just hoping things aren't permanent like I've read with people on Fin but with almost 2 months gone by I'm in panic mode. Imagine having ED, zero libido, and Deca D*ck when you're 26??? I'm not touching SP ever again.

  23. Are you sure you don't have mononucleosis or something ?

    I can understand the investigation with fina. I read those reports too.


    Out of all the side effects of Saw Palmetto the only ones that seem to be significant are allergic reactions, GI distress, and headaches.


    At any rate, I hope things clear up for you.

  24. Thanks... definitely not mono.... I'm seeing Dr Shippen in a couple of weeks and I'll see what he says, but this has been one of the most traumatic experiences in my entire life.
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