Shut down for months and didn't even know it.
03-21-2008 03:51 PM
Shut down for months and didn't even know it.
As some of you may recall, I started TRT at the beginning of December 2007 (I'm 19).
Endo had me on 100mg Test enanthate sub-q weekly. I don't have the time right now to post my pre-treatement bloodwork but I had a ton of bloodwork done and it repeatedly showed the same trend: Low-normal T (free, bioavailable, total), low-normal FSH, low-normal LH, low-normal SHBG, normal estradiol.
Here are the most recent blood test results (I had to call repeatedly for him to finally get them mailed to me.. which explains why I got them so damn late)
January 15th, 2008:
LH: 0.1 U/L (1.5-10)
FSH: 0.1 U/L (2.0-15)
Prolactin: 13 ug/L (under 16)
SHBG: 10 nmol/L (10-50)
Total testosterone: 34,5 nmol/L (6.9-27.7)
oestradiol: 223 nmol/L (36-220)
When I called him about a week after the blood draw to inquire about the results all he said was "everything is fine. your testosterone is high and everything else looks good"
What??? For one thing, I'm completely shut down and my e is high as **** and my SHBG is at the lower end.
I should also mention that I have been on HCG for about 3 months now, after finally convincing my endo (initially 250IU 2x weekly, but I have recently upped this myself to 500IU EOD and have been getting good results). No blood work was done until yesterday to see how the HCG affected my levels on top of the T injections.
Yesterday I went to a knowledgable urologist in my area (I got these blood test results this morning, so he has not seen it yet), he was concerned about fertility issues from starting treatment at my age. I have to get a sperm count test done and I suspect the results will not be very good at all.
I have NO idea where my levels are at right now (I'll know monday, because my new urologist had blood drawn yesterday, as I just mentioned).
I'm suspecting me e will be completely out of wack from the high dosage of HCG, and my T levels will be in steroid-land.
FWIW, I'm feeling pretty damn good since starting my treatment, and my urologist said he's alright with it but warned me that I may very well never have kids again if I choose to continue.
Thoughts? I have a bottle of liquidex that's been sitting around - I think its high time I start using it, but I'm starting to think twice about the long-term consequences as well. On the other hand, it has relieved so many of my problems that I'm reluctant to ever go back... ugh.
03-21-2008 04:09 PM
Wow!. 19 and you are geting HRT?. That is some scary sh*t!. If I were you I definitely would not continue this. Long term consequences.....Way to young to be worried about stuff like this. I feel sorry for you, couldn't imagine myself needing hormone replacement when I was that age. Wanted to hump like a rabbit when I was 19!. Hope you can ween yourself off with a doctors help and get yourself "back" on track.
03-21-2008 04:24 PM
I can't really say I "needed" it. Libido was fine prior to treatement.
Originally Posted by T-Bone
However, the T has completely eliminated my fatigue, depression, anxiety, motivation issues, etc.
Essentially, I feel better than ever now, however, it could be supraphysiological levels of hormones masking some other underlying issues as well.
I am open to the idea of getting off and starting treatment to get things ticking naturally. I was surprised that this wasn't the urologists first suggestion, instead he said he wanted me "off" as in quitting cold turkey for a few months to take some more tests. But I am not in a good position to do this right now.
I'm just hoping no irreversible damage has been done. I have only been on treatment for (almost) 4 months, so I'm guessing probably not.
I too think I'm a sort of "scary" position, but the fact that it has helped me more than all the other treatements I've tried before it combined is pretty compelling.
03-21-2008 04:39 PM
By the way, since I've been taking pretty high amounts of HCG (between 1,500-2,000IU weekly) for roughly half the amount of time as being on T injections, I'm guessing a restart would be easier and I should now have higher LH and FSH levels than what those pre-HCG blood test results that I just posted. We'll see on monday. I have my fingers crossed. My urologist said that HCG doesn't do anything for fertility while being on T because the entire pituitary is essentially shut down. FWIW, there was an initial testicular atrophy at some point in time (I don't recall when), and the HCG has not restored it to its original size. My balls still look fine and I'm still able to blow a load, though. I'd guess about 25% less than what it used to be (ball size and load size).
I'm not all that concerned with long term issues except for irreversible infertility. I don't see why my age would have anything to do with this, and have heard no compelling evidence either. Heck, I've seen guys that have been doing AAS nonstop for years and were able to succesfully restore their fertility after all that time. Other than that... I've stopped growing years ago so it's not that big of a deal.
Also, guys, not that I'm complaining or anything but please leave the "holy **** @ TRT at 19! you're ****ed! good luck!" comments to yourselves. While I understand it may not be deliberate on your part to piss me off, it certainly doesn't make matters better. Thanks.
03-21-2008 05:10 PM
If I were you, I would be doing the same at 19. Deal with the fertility issue when it becomes a more immediate issue. You're not going to have a good life, much less be in a position to be a good parent, if you continue to suffer from the symptoms you mention.
Originally Posted by Bungloid48
As for your treatment plan, I think you need to decide whether you want to use hCG as an adjunct or primary therapy. I'd either reduce the hCG to 500-750 IUs weekly, with T-Cyp, or get rid of the T-Cyp. You are taking too much, and I can assure that your E2 is way high now. This happened to me, and I started feeling like complete crap. I now can somewhat appreciate what PMS is like. I started arimidex yesterday. (For those on arimidex, when do you start feeling relief?)
Good luck, kiddo.
03-21-2008 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by jinxie
My issue with hCG is the cost. It's a whopping 90$ for a 10,000IU vial (only size available). Assuming a maximum shelf-life of 60 days, which is pushing it, it's still 45$ a month... for life. That will not be an issue once I start working again at the end of this semester, but its still something worth bringing up.
Given my weird numbers, I wonder why I feel so good right now?
I have started adex last night at 0.25mg and will continue this 3x per week. Meanwhile I will drop the HCG back down to 500IU 2x a week, and drop the test from 100mg a week to 75mg. Hopefully this will accomplish 3 things: Bring my test back from insanely high to high-normal, lower my e to normal, and finally, keep LH and FSH from being inexistant.
This is just my sort of "damage control" while my urologist figures out what the hell to do with me. lol.
03-21-2008 06:10 PM
Nah man all I'll say is do what you have to do to get yourself "normal". If it means not being able to have kids then I guess that is just the way life will be...unfortunately...but good luck with your treatment bro!
Originally Posted by Bungloid48
03-21-2008 10:44 PM
$90 a month eh..haha, J/K bro..
i would not worry with fertility issues, id be surprised if your T levels jump from the HCG, i was on 400iu 2x week and mine didnt budge...(not sure if thats good or not?), but me E2 went up as well to 241!!!! my urologist said "good luck getting anastrozol"
im dropping down to 250iu 2x week and see if i can lower it some more, but liquidex is on order...as BEFORE i added HCG my E2 was 162 (44ng range 10-59), so probably hopeless
03-22-2008 10:21 AM
Originally Posted by phatkid77
Good to hear from you. The guy I saw is the one you PMed me, by the way, so thanks again.
Geez, my e must be through the ****ing roof in that case (HCG).
I'm doing 0.25mg Liquidex (5 drops with 20 gauge needle) every other day. The bottle will last me like 20 years, what a great deal. I immediately noticed the day after taking Arimidex for the first time that my ass region was a LOT leaner. I have been holding some estrogenic fatty pockets there since puberty and they seem to be disappearing at an exponential rate. I'm quite happy. Likewise, my mood has gone up like ****ing crazy. I'm no longer worrying about anything despite everything that's going on. It's like being on the strongest antidepressant in the world without any side effects. I'm a bit stumped... I may be onto something here. I guess e management was in first order since day 1.
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