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How I got some sleep

LeanGuy

LeanGuy

Active member
I've had an insomnia problem for about 6 months now... a urine test showed very low serotonin (about half of optimal). Among numerous sleep aids, I've tried 5-HTP and tryptophan with very little progress, until I learned some things:

1) Our body uses dietary tryptophan to make most serotonin in the gut. Maybe this is why 5-HTP never did anything for me, absorbs too soon.

2) If taken with other aminos/proteins, they compete with the tryptophan

3) Tryptophan needs B6 to convert to serotonin

So knowing this, I take 500mg tryptophan + 25mg B6 on an EMPTY stomach (or with carbs only) three times per day. After doing this for only 1 week, I can feel my serotonin levels have increased... I am much more relaxed and my sleep has improved dramatically. The next urine test will be the proof, but I thought I'd share in case it helps anyone else.
 
LeanGuy said:
I've had an insomnia problem for about 6 months now... a urine test showed very low serotonin (about half of optimal). Among numerous sleep aids, I've tried 5-HTP and tryptophan with very little progress, until I learned some things:

1) Our body uses dietary tryptophan to make most serotonin in the gut. Maybe this is why 5-HTP never did anything for me, absorbs too soon.

2) If taken with other aminos/proteins, they compete with the tryptophan

3) Tryptophan needs B6 to convert to serotonin

So knowing this, I take 500mg tryptophan + 25mg B6 on an EMPTY stomach (or with carbs only) three times per day. After doing this for only 1 week, I can feel my serotonin levels have increased... I am much more relaxed and my sleep has improved dramatically. The next urine test will be the proof, but I thought I'd share in case it helps anyone else.
Click to expand...
If you are so sensitive, you may benefit from Genova Diagnostic test

NutrEval

You will find out not only your exact doses of Tryptophan and B6 thay you personally need but most likely many other items.

I did my testing as I learned about them, so they are in pieces. The amiono acids are listed on page 8 of my ONE test.
You can look at it here:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/77385-jansz-metabolic-analysis.html
.
But if you are interested then do the

NutrEval.

.
.
 
JanSz said:
If you are so sensitive, you may benefit from Genova Diagnostic test

NutrEval
Click to expand...

Thanks, I've been wanting to know this sort of thing. I wonder how much it costs uninsured? Also, do they have patient service centers? Their web site doesn't tell.
 
You'll also need adequate levels of niacinamide to inhibit the enzyme that breaks down tryptophan prematurely. The more tryp you take, the more this enzyme's production gets upregulated.

I'm using tryptophan, B6 and niacinamide right now as well..it is working for both insomnia and depression for me.
 
bioman said:
You'll also need adequate levels of niacinamide to inhibit the enzyme that breaks down tryptophan prematurely. The more tryp you take, the more this enzyme's production gets upregulated.

I'm using tryptophan, B6 and niacinamide right now as well..it is working for both insomnia and depression for me.
Click to expand...

Thanks, bioman... I'll add some in.
 
bioman said:
You'll also need adequate levels of niacinamide to inhibit the enzyme that breaks down tryptophan prematurely. The more tryp you take, the more this enzyme's production gets upregulated.

I'm using tryptophan, B6 and niacinamide right now as well..it is working for both insomnia and depression for me.
Click to expand...

Niacinamide is one of the water-soluble B-complex vitamins. Niacin, or nicotinic acid, is also known as Vitamin B-3.

Results of NutrEval
will cover any need for many supplements.
I do not have (yet) results from NutrEval, as I am in learning process.
I did little smaller test called ONE.
Got back a list for my daily requirements:


1 __ Vit A & beta-Carotene 15000iu
2 __ Vit C 500 mg
3 __ Vit E & mixed tocopherols 400 IU
4 __ Alpha-Lipoic acid 100 mg
5 __ Vit B1 10 mg
6 __ Vit B2 Riboflavin 10mg
7 __ Vit B3 Niacin 10 mg
8 __ Vit B6 Pyridoxine 25 mg
9 __ Vit B9 Folate 1200mcg
10 __ Vit B12 Cobalamin 500 mcg
11 __ Magnesium 800 mg
12 __ Zinc 10 mg
13 __ Iron 20mg
14 __ Manganese 2 mg
15 __ Molybdenum 150 mg
16 __
17 __ Glutamine 96mg
18 __ Glycine 1002 mg
19 __
20 __ Arginine 0
21 __ Aspargine 0
22 __ Cystine 0
23 __ Histidine 0
24 __ Isoleucine 0
25 __ Leucine 0
26 __ Lysine 0
27 __ Methionine 0
28 __ Phenylalanine 0
29 __ Serine 0
30 __ Taurine 0
31 __ Theorine 0
32 __ Tryptophan 0
33 __ tyrosine 0
34 __ Valine 0

It is a list as on my last two pages of report that I posted here:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/77385-jansz-metabolic-analysis.html
.
.
For the other stuff look at my Fatty Acids analysis (it is part of NutrEval).
.
.
 
LeanGuy said:
Thanks, I've been wanting to know this sort of thing. I wonder how much it costs uninsured? Also, do they have patient service centers? Their web site doesn't tell.
Click to expand...
Genova deals only with health providers who have accounts with them.
It is not necessarily a MD, chiropractor, nutritionists, osteopaths, other are able to open account.
Call them, ask for nearest provider that deals with them.
There is no need to be close to them.
They use DHL for overnight delivery of samples.
To do test, patient gets a box wit a kit for given test.
Kit contain all hardware and forms that are need.
After receiving kit, I found most convenient is to go to doc with my urine samples, he draws blood, check if I filled forms correctly, adds codes for insurance, signs and put the complete package to refrigirator. Nurse calls HDL and it goest to lab.

Genova process some of insurances.
Oppening account, cost nothing and very little time.
No financial obligation to doctor.
So you may want to ask your doc to open account with them.

Invalid Link Removed
 
LeanGuy said:
I've had an insomnia problem for about 6 months now... a urine test showed very low serotonin (about half of optimal). Among numerous sleep aids, I've tried 5-HTP and tryptophan with very little progress, until I learned some things:

1) Our body uses dietary tryptophan to make most serotonin in the gut. Maybe this is why 5-HTP never did anything for me, absorbs too soon.

2) If taken with other aminos/proteins, they compete with the tryptophan

3) Tryptophan needs B6 to convert to serotonin

So knowing this, I take 500mg tryptophan + 25mg B6 on an EMPTY stomach (or with carbs only) three times per day. After doing this for only 1 week, I can feel my serotonin levels have increased... I am much more relaxed and my sleep has improved dramatically. The next urine test will be the proof, but I thought I'd share in case it helps anyone else.
Click to expand...


Did the B-6 and tryptophan make you sleepy during the day? I am looking to improve sleep quality - I don't seem to be able to sleep long enough--but so many supplements make me drowsy during the day.
 
cpeil2 said:
Did the B-6 and tryptophan make you sleepy during the day? I am looking to improve sleep quality - I don't seem to be able to sleep long enough--but so many supplements make me drowsy during the day.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does make me feel very relaxed. But having suffered 24x7 daytime anxiety and nighttime insomnia, it is a welcome relief.
 
Been taking 2 of my 3 doses of tryptophan during the day. Experienced a little relaxation but no drowsiness.

Just an FYI...Couldn't sleep worth a darn last night..may have taken the niacinamide too late in the day..or it could have been some other factor. Could only find 500 mg caps so it was probably too much too late.
 
Ok - couple questions:

1) If one were to take these 3 supplements to help improve sleep/depression what would be the dosages or ratios to get optimal results?

2) Is there a difference between L-Tryptophan and Tryptophan?
( product I was looking at is Invalid Link Removed

3) Is this fine for the niacinamide? - Invalid Link Removed
 
LeanGuy said:
I've had an insomnia problem for about 6 months now... a urine test showed very low serotonin (about half of optimal). Among numerous sleep aids, I've tried 5-HTP and tryptophan with very little progress, until I learned some things:

1) Our body uses dietary tryptophan to make most serotonin in the gut. Maybe this is why 5-HTP never did anything for me, absorbs too soon.

2) If taken with other aminos/proteins, they compete with the tryptophan

3) Tryptophan needs B6 to convert to serotonin

So knowing this, I take 500mg tryptophan + 25mg B6 on an EMPTY stomach (or with carbs only) three times per day. After doing this for only 1 week, I can feel my serotonin levels have increased... I am much more relaxed and my sleep has improved dramatically. The next urine test will be the proof, but I thought I'd share in case it helps anyone else.
Click to expand...

i have insomnia as well unless i take zma and 5-htp

will this stay elevated

or do you have to continue on taking this **** forever??

thx
 
JanSz said:
Niacinamide is one of the water-soluble B-complex vitamins. Niacin, or nicotinic acid, is also known as Vitamin B-3.

Results of NutrEval
will cover any need for many supplements.
I do not have (yet) results from NutrEval, as I am in learning process.
I did little smaller test called ONE.
Got back a list for my daily requirements:


1 __ Vit A & beta-Carotene 15000iu
2 __ Vit C 500 mg
3 __ Vit E & mixed tocopherols 400 IU
4 __ Alpha-Lipoic acid 100 mg
5 __ Vit B1 10 mg
6 __ Vit B2 Riboflavin 10mg
7 __ Vit B3 Niacin 10 mg
8 __ Vit B6 Pyridoxine 25 mg
9 __ Vit B9 Folate 1200mcg
10 __ Vit B12 Cobalamin 500 mcg
11 __ Magnesium 800 mg
12 __ Zinc 10 mg
13 __ Iron 20mg
14 __ Manganese 2 mg
15 __ Molybdenum 150 mg
16 __
17 __ Glutamine 96mg
18 __ Glycine 1002 mg
19 __
20 __ Arginine 0
21 __ Aspargine 0
22 __ Cystine 0
23 __ Histidine 0
24 __ Isoleucine 0
25 __ Leucine 0
26 __ Lysine 0
27 __ Methionine 0
28 __ Phenylalanine 0
29 __ Serine 0
30 __ Taurine 0
31 __ Theorine 0
32 __ Tryptophan 0
33 __ tyrosine 0
34 __ Valine 0

It is a list as on my last two pages of report that I posted here:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/77385-jansz-metabolic-analysis.html
.
.
For the other stuff look at my Fatty Acids analysis (it is part of NutrEval).
.
.
Click to expand...

does this mean you require no additional amino acids and your neurotransmitter levels are okay?
 
bioman said:
Just an FYI...Couldn't sleep worth a darn last night..may have taken the niacinamide too late in the day..or it could have been some other factor. Could only find 500 mg caps so it was probably too much too late.
Click to expand...

Whoa, that's a lot... I'm gonna pick up some 100mg.
 
cumkwakka said:
does this mean you require no additional amino acids and your neurotransmitter levels are okay?
Click to expand...
Not really.
That list was from my ONE test done 10 Dec 07.
Couple months before I did Metabolic Analysis Profile done Oct 4/07.
From that test I also have a list.
So now I am working on combined lists.
I am also substracting some supplements that I was using previously without any basis in tests.

Eventually my plan is to use supplements only if they are justified by testing.
----------------------
Right now I am on patch up project,
had I new all that I know now, I would have:

stopped all suplements for three months
do NutrEval test
had much better list of supplements that I need,
based on wide angle nutritional screening.
 
LeanGuy said:
I've had an insomnia problem for about 6 months now... a urine test showed very low serotonin (about half of optimal). Among numerous sleep aids, I've tried 5-HTP and tryptophan with very little progress, until I learned some things:

1) Our body uses dietary tryptophan to make most serotonin in the gut. Maybe this is why 5-HTP never did anything for me, absorbs too soon.

2) If taken with other aminos/proteins, they compete with the tryptophan

3) Tryptophan needs B6 to convert to serotonin

So knowing this, I take 500mg tryptophan + 25mg B6 on an EMPTY stomach (or with carbs only) three times per day. After doing this for only 1 week, I can feel my serotonin levels have increased... I am much more relaxed and my sleep has improved dramatically. The next urine test will be the proof, but I thought I'd share in case it helps anyone else.
Click to expand...

Very interesting friend! I just ordered Tryoptophan and might pick up some b-6; although, do you have any good research(like from PUBMEd on Tryoptophan and B6?
 
bioman said:
Been taking 2 of my 3 doses of tryptophan during the day. Experienced a little relaxation but no drowsiness.

Just an FYI...Couldn't sleep worth a darn last night..may have taken the niacinamide too late in the day..or it could have been some other factor. Could only find 500 mg caps so it was probably too much too late.
Click to expand...

what would be your ideal doses for each of these and what times of day would you recommend dosing each one? thanks bro.
 
Speaking of Tryptophan

Tryptophan is the cover story of the April (2008) issue of Life Extension Magazine which I received yesterday. It is a comprehensive look at the amino acid and all it's benefits. Apparently in the normal American diet there is a woefully inadequate suppy of it. Supplementing with it can produce many benefits, including higher serotonin levels and better sleep.

If you are not a member of LEF you can view the article in it's entirty at the LEF website:
Invalid Link Removed

You will need to wait a few days for it to be posted as they post the new issue several days after they send the magazine out to members and they have currently posted only up to the March issue.
 
LeanGuy said:
What is D-Tryptophan? I am only used to the L- variety.
Click to expand...
Sorry about that, I was just joshin' you. The D isomer shows no real promising effect in humans... Just wanted to see what you'd say. I must say though, I think that DL-methionine looks like a promising racemic mixture...
 
Force of Green said:
Sorry about that, I was just joshin' you. The D isomer shows no real promising effect in humans... Just wanted to see what you'd say. I must say though, I think that DL-methionine looks like a promising racemic mixture...
Click to expand...
I do use DL-methionine.
But that was on advice I got after doing test described in post #1
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/77385-jansz-metabolic-analysis.html

Page#9 of test report (attachment on that post),
shows need for L-methionine.
I bought DL-methionine from LEF, product #130
 
OldGator said:
Tryptophan is the cover story of the April (2008) issue of Life Extension Magazine which I received yesterday. It is a comprehensive look at the amino acid and all it's benefits. Apparently in the normal American diet there is a woefully inadequate suppy of it. Supplementing with it can produce many benefits, including higher serotonin levels and better sleep.

If you are not a member of LEF you can view the article in it's entirty at the LEF website:
Invalid Link Removed

You will need to wait a few days for it to be posted as they post the new issue several days after they send the magazine out to members and they have currently posted only up to the March issue.
Click to expand...

I read all of it. The first few pages and the big facts and writeup. It said nothing that I remember about b-6 so I hope Tryptophan alone works wonder's.
 
There are many references to the B6 requirement for serotonin synthesis, google for "tryptophan b6". Some articles even mention tryptophan can be mildly toxic without it.
 
smeton_yea said:
I read all of it. The first few pages and the big facts and writeup. It said nothing that I remember about b-6 so I hope Tryptophan alone works wonder's.
Click to expand...


Consider: Supplement with appropriate amino acids, and vitamin B6
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suspect adrenal hyperactivity if:
Elevated ALANINE
(increased conversion from pyruvate)
Low arginine, tryptophan, tyrosine
(upregulation of arginase and oxygenase enzymes

-------
Consider:
Adrenocortex Stress Profile to assess cortisol and DHEA levels
===============================================================

Suspect neurological / behavioral problems if:
Elevated or low tryptophan, taurine, phenylalanine,
tyrosine
(neurotransmitter precursors)
---------
Consider:
Supplement with appropriate amino acids,
vitamin B6
==============================================================
 
Can this thread be made a sticky?

Sleep is not understood and there is no place I can find that mentions supplements that work in the "right" way.
 
I should probably add something... the tryptophan is probably only good for those with low serotonin. I had a 24-hour urine test to verify. Serotonin over normal is not good... you could have side effects similar to prozac.
 
LeanGuy said:
I've had an insomnia problem for about 6 months now... a urine test showed very low serotonin (about half of optimal). Among numerous sleep aids, I've tried 5-HTP and tryptophan with very little progress, until I learned some things:

1) Our body uses dietary tryptophan to make most serotonin in the gut. Maybe this is why 5-HTP never did anything for me, absorbs too soon.

2) If taken with other aminos/proteins, they compete with the tryptophan

3) Tryptophan needs B6 to convert to serotonin

So knowing this, I take 500mg tryptophan + 25mg B6 on an EMPTY stomach (or with carbs only) three times per day. After doing this for only 1 week, I can feel my serotonin levels have increased... I am much more relaxed and my sleep has improved dramatically. The next urine test will be the proof, but I thought I'd share in case it helps anyone else.
Click to expand...

Leanguy:Bump for an update on your urine test
 
LeanGuy said:
I should probably add something... the tryptophan is probably only good for those with low serotonin. I had a 24-hour urine test to verify. Serotonin over normal is not good... you could have side effects similar to prozac.
Click to expand...

or is this the results. What are the normal range numbers and what numbers do yours fall into?

also I ordered some trytophan and have b6 ready. The reason i'm using it is for sleep. I don't know my serotonin levels, what do you recommend get blood tested for them at Doctors? (thats how I found out my Vit D levels) I assume my Serotonin levels are in the normal range. so maybe just 500 mgs at night ehhh

On a Whole Seperate Note:Here's a lil fatloss tip for those cutting- take 500 mgs of tryophan 3 x's daily one hour before . meals. It cuts food cravings.
 
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