HCG not restoring ball size.
- 03-06-2008, 05:20 PM
- 03-06-2008, 05:24 PM
03-06-2008, 05:36 PM
I guess the best part of my bloodwork was my increase in DHEA.
If anyone is looking to boost DHEA check out Raw Test (DHEA Booster) by Get Diesel. My DHEA was always low - usually below 100. I tried pretty much every supplement to boost it to no avail. I gave this product a try a few weeks ago and bingo -300!
03-07-2008, 02:57 PM
My old test results
6 months later I reduced my dose to 8000 IUs and included Arimidex to combat rising estrogen. My total went up over 1400 with free at 425. Approximately one year after I started this treatment I quit everything and my baseline returned to its pre-TRT level of 475.
03-07-2008, 04:32 PM
Spoke with my doc about T cream
He thought I hit a wall with the HCG. I've been doing for over 4 months now and seemed to have hit a ceiling at around 650 TT. I recently doubled my dose from 600iu's EOD to 1000iu's EOD and my TT actually dropped a bit. With my SHBG around 40 my free T is stuck around 110.
I envy your success with HCG alone Colkurtz.
Anyway, Dr. S wants to use compounded T cream because my DHT is on the low side 33 (25-75 Quest) and my E has always been pretty low (20 - 24). We will keep an eye on the DHT (I prefer to keep my hair). My starting dose is 0.7ml (200mg/ml compound) so it looks like that is 140mg a day. I was preferring shots but after we spoke I feel better about the cream. He thinks I fit the "cream profile" better than shots right now but we can always change.
I will also continue lower dose HCG to prevent balls from shrinking.
What do you guys think?
BTW, If I apply at 7:00am (per doc) how long do I have to wait before swim or shower? I usually go to gym around 8:00am and sweat a lot. Maybe apply after gym? I forgot to ask doc about this.
03-07-2008, 05:05 PM
Generally, I believe it's safe to workout 2 hours post application. I would recommend putting it on after you shower, post work out, as working out even 2 hours post application will reduce absorption by some measure.
Hope it goes well for you. Good luck.
03-07-2008, 05:36 PM
Since T is highest in early AM, I was thinking about applying around 6:00am (when I get up). Maybe hit gym around 9:00am. That would give me about 3 hours before sweat/shower.
Does 200iu HCG EOD sound right as an HCG "balls maintenance dose". I think that's what doc said but I have to check.
03-07-2008, 06:14 PM
03-07-2008, 08:01 PM
Based on my research, taking high doses of hCG is more likely to increase E2, though that doesnt sound like it's an issue for Gator, and is less likely to give the same sense of wellbeing as the combined protocol. But as they say, your milage may very. I think I would go with the combined protocol, particularly given your age Gator. That's easy for me to say, as I went for the combined protocol, and I am 37.
03-07-2008, 08:10 PM
With that dose, and since it is a cream, I think you're fine with 3 hours. I'd expect it to be 95% absorbed by that time.
200 IUs EOD equals 700 IUs per week. From what I know, maintenance is 550-750/week, typically. So that sounds right. Jans says 306 EOD, and he takes 380, to error on the high side. I think 200 IUs is good to start, based on the consensus. But I'm sure that Jans dose is safe, as he a good study of this stuff.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you . . . and the Gators. The close loss to Tenn. could be the death knell.
03-07-2008, 08:51 PM
J, Did you ever do the cream or did you just start with injection? Why inject over cream for you?
I'm really torn on how to proceed. I see doc's point for introducing T as my stalled progress over last 4 months. I had an initial TT boost to 702 when I started HCG at 500 EOD. Then as we went to 600, then 1000 I actually decreased TT slightly at each dose increase. My doc is a patient guy and I think if he saw any increase at all - no matter how slight - I'd still be trying the HCG.
Still I hear what Colkurtz is saying about trying one more time. Maybe I'm just a little impatient myself - you get that when when you lived with free T of 40 for 6 or 8 years and didn't know any better. Thanks to you all for the input.
03-07-2008, 10:43 PM
Are you SURE you are not using too much water? Might be way too dilute
When you say you "took all the sterile water out of the first vial, ejected that into the vial with the powder and shook it a little bit" that leads me to believe you diluted it excessively. I use 5ml of water, if memory serves per my Dr's instructions. 15 unit on the syringe then gives me around 325 per shot. Note that my Dr uses less water than others for a less dilute, more concentrated solution.
In any event, at only 19 perhaps you should see a leader in the field. If there is ANY chance at restart you owe it to yourself.
03-08-2008, 12:08 AM
Last edited by colkurtz_spf; 03-08-2008 at 01:09 AM.
03-08-2008, 02:30 AM
Is your doc concerned that your TT and FT are too high? Do you feel overstimulated?
I'm glad you are doing so well.
03-08-2008, 03:47 AM
03-08-2008, 03:55 AM
I started with injections, because my doctor thought my thyroid condition was cause absorbtion issues. Plus, I'd rather shoot once a week, than slather daily. That's just me. I gave myself allergy shots through college, so no big thing.
I've never heard about the hCG monotherapy, except for attempted re-start. I can appreciate sticking with it, if it works reasonably quick and there are advantages. But if I were you, I'd want to just get to it, at this juncture. For me, I was feeling so badly, I didnt want to mess around. At some juncture, I may think about switching over, to try the monotherapy, but I dont want to rock the boat, for now. Why are you torn?
Hope you start feeling even better, soon.
03-08-2008, 07:58 AM
I was also anticipating doing injections instead of cream when starting T, so that also gave me some pause. However, after speaking with doc I feel better. We will watch DHT (which he thinks is a little too low for me right now and thus, the cream) and if it gets out of control we can always switch. He assured me he has many patients on both (cream and inject) and all pros and cons are constantly assessed. He also instructed me to apply cream to small, hairless area (like inner upper arms) to reduce aromatization and conversion. Said hair areas convert much higher than hairless areas.
I guess I'll give it a go.
03-08-2008, 08:37 AM
03-08-2008, 08:59 AM
03-08-2008, 09:08 AM
03-08-2008, 10:34 AM
03-08-2008, 11:13 AM
03-08-2008, 11:55 AM
03-08-2008, 12:55 PM
A few months ago I started back at a much lower dose and achieved decent levels (TT 957 and FT 233) within 6 weeks. This time my protocol included 2000 IUs of HCG per week, 1.5 grams of Arimidex per week, 25 mg of Progesterone and 75 mg of DHEA daily. I recently started a three day split and would like to move to 1000 IUs EOD. That will depend on my lab results.
03-08-2008, 01:02 PM
03-08-2008, 01:50 PM
03-08-2008, 02:57 PM
I dont think many 50 year olds (or any other age, for that matter) would be complaining about pressing 225 for sets of 5 (at your weak point), dude. You're pretty damn strong.
03-08-2008, 03:10 PM
03-08-2008, 07:59 PM
well, i have my 24boxes...lol
dont notice too much, but i think my balls are back to normal size....taking 400iu 2x week.... insurance so ill keep a pokin..
03-08-2008, 11:23 PM
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