HCG not restoring ball size.

Page 3 of 3 First 123
  1. Advanced Member
    OldGator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Age
    58
    Posts
    611
    Rep Power
    686
    Level
    19
    Lv. Percent
    54.44%

    Quote Originally Posted by Bungloid48 View Post
    Raw Test has been discontinued ages ago...
    Yeah I know. I had some laying around (expired 12/07) but they were the only DHEA supp that did anything. I was taking high quality "DHEA Complete" from Life Extension but that never did anything per BW. Then I found 2 bottles of RT I had, figured "what the hell" and took them and my DHEA tripled (100-300). I found they are stilling selling this at some supplement sites and got a few more bottles. RT contains DHEA, pregnenolone, and magnesium. Maybe it's the combination. It is possible the high dose HCG may have contributed, but my TT was the same at most of the BW.

  2. New Member
    Bungloid48's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    80
    Rep Power
    131
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    26.91%

    Quote Originally Posted by OldGator View Post
    Yeah I know. I had some laying around (expired 12/07) but they were the only DHEA supp that did anything. I was taking high quality "DHEA Complete" from Life Extension but that never did anything per BW. Then I found 2 bottles of RT I had, figured "what the hell" and took them and my DHEA tripled (100-300). I found they are stilling selling this at some supplement sites and got a few more bottles. RT contains DHEA, pregnenolone, and magnesium. Maybe it's the combination. It is possible the high dose HCG may have contributed, but my TT was the same at most of the BW.
    That's all it contains? There is no way. That is, by and no large, no special combination that would magically increase bioavailability, which for DHEA, I believe is null when ingested orally.
  3. New Member
    professorJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    35
    Rep Power
    107
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    70.85%

    cream


    Thank you. What dose is he starting you on for cream, and is the HCG dose going to be reduced?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldGator View Post
    No. I meant that he has patients on one or the other which indicates to me that he is open to either delivery method but, for now, thinks the cream is the way to go for me.
    •   
       

  4. The horror
    colkurtz_spf's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    672
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    27.98%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    I guess I dont understand the difference of it being your own testosterone if you need to take the hCG to produce, but if you feel better (and those killer numbers dont lie), power to you, brother.

    Is your doc concerned that your TT and FT are too high? Do you feel overstimulated?

    I'm glad you are doing so well.
    Those results are almost two years old. I maintned that level with success for close to a year, but after reading Dr, John's posts decided to abandon treatment. His claims that high dose HCG burned out leydig cells spooked me. I took around 8 months off of all therapy but didn't like the way I felt. My mind wasn't as sharp and I lost muscle mass and stregnth. My bench dropped from 12 reps at 225 to 5.

    A few months ago I started back at a much lower dose and achieved decent levels (TT 957 and FT 233) within 6 weeks. This time my protocol included 2000 IUs of HCG per week, 1.5 grams of Arimidex per week, 25 mg of Progesterone and 75 mg of DHEA daily. I recently started a three day split and would like to move to 1000 IUs EOD. That will depend on my lab results.
  5. The horror
    colkurtz_spf's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    672
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    27.98%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    And I didnt mean to suggest that 50 was old. Just that I didnt understand the reluctance to becoming reliant on exogenous T at such an age. But now I appreciate that its about your experience with hCG being superior to hCG + T, if I am understanding you correctly.
    It's mostly about the experience. HCG helps you maintain your body's natural rythm. I would prefer to go further up the HPTA chain and directly stimulate LH, but so far there doesn't seem to be a safe long-term solution.
  6. Advanced Member
    OldGator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Age
    58
    Posts
    611
    Rep Power
    686
    Level
    19
    Lv. Percent
    54.44%

    Quote Originally Posted by Bungloid48 View Post
    That's all it contains? There is no way. That is, by and no large, no special combination that would magically increase bioavailability, which for DHEA, I believe is null when ingested orally.
    I'm not disagreeing with you and I can't explain it either. I'm just pointing out the results of my blood test. My DHEA supp was the only thing I changed between tests and DHEA-S went from 100 to 300. Chuck Diesel used to say the "special" enteric coating allowed the DHEA to be absorbed slowly. Others say the same. Who knows?
  7. Senior Member
    jinxie's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  155 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,290
    Rep Power
    40609
    Level
    34
    Lv. Percent
    53.84%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    Those results are almost two years old. I maintned that level with success for close to a year, but after reading Dr, John's posts decided to abandon treatment. His claims that high dose HCG burned out leydig cells spooked me. I took around 8 months off of all therapy but didn't like the way I felt. My mind wasn't as sharp and I lost muscle mass and stregnth. My bench dropped from 12 reps at 225 to 5.

    A few months ago I started back at a much lower dose and achieved decent levels (TT 957 and FT 233) within 6 weeks. This time my protocol included 2000 IUs of HCG per week, 1.5 grams of Arimidex per week, 25 mg of Progesterone and 75 mg of DHEA daily. I recently started a three day split and would like to move to 1000 IUs EOD. That will depend on my lab results.
    Even those values seem high, from what I've read. My doc's targets are TT 750 and FT 200, I think. Maybe that's on the low side.

    I dont think many 50 year olds (or any other age, for that matter) would be complaining about pressing 225 for sets of 5 (at your weak point), dude. You're pretty damn strong.
  8. The horror
    colkurtz_spf's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    672
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    27.98%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    Even those values seem high, from what I've read. My doc's targets are TT 750 and FT 200, I think. Maybe that's on the low side.

    I dont think many 50 year olds (or any other age, for that matter) would be complaining about pressing 225 for sets of 5 (at your weak point), dude. You're pretty damn strong.
    Thanks, but you have to consider my size. I'm 6'4" 235.
  9. New Member
    phatkid77's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    353
    Rep Power
    316
    Level
    15
    Lv. Percent
    76.57%

    well, i have my 24boxes...lol

    dont notice too much, but i think my balls are back to normal size....taking 400iu 2x week.... insurance so ill keep a pokin..
  10. New Member
    smc252's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    299
    Rep Power
    241
    Level
    14
    Lv. Percent
    45.49%

    HCG and leydig cells..


    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    I've heard about leydig desensitization too.
    This is a byproduct of testicular aromatase, according to the studies I have read.

    I'd assume an AI would prevent this.. *shrug*

    To the original poster; you can try HMG as well, it will surely plump the boys back up.
  11. The horror
    colkurtz_spf's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    672
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    27.98%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by smc252 View Post
    This is a byproduct of , according to the studies I have read.

    I'd assume an AI would prevent this.. *shrug*

    To the original poster; you can try HMG as well, it will surely plump the boys back up.
    Are you saying that aromatase causes leydig desensitization, or that HCG causes testicular aromatase? I've looked hard for studies showing desensitization through HCG use, but haven't found anything conclusive. Would you share what you've read?

    Thank you.
    Last edited by colkurtz_spf; 03-09-2008 at 01:09 AM.
  12. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2415
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    61.26%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    Those results are almost two years old. I maintned that level with success for close to a year, but after reading Dr, John's posts decided to abandon treatment. His claims that high dose HCG burned out leydig cells spooked me. I took around 8 months off of all therapy but didn't like the way I felt. My mind wasn't as sharp and I lost muscle mass and stregnth. My bench dropped from 12 reps at 225 to 5.

    A few months ago I started back at a much lower dose and achieved decent levels (TT 957 and FT 233) within 6 weeks. This time my protocol included 2000 IUs of HCG per week, 1.5 grams of Arimidex per week, 25 mg of Progesterone and 75 mg of DHEA daily. I recently started a three day split and would like to move to 1000 IUs EOD. That will depend on my lab results.
    I had my last blood drawn 8/30/07
    Currenly I am EOD system
    T=178.5mg/week
    0.38cc liquid Anastrozole on day of shot, 0.38*7/2=1.33 Arimidex/week
    750iu hcg on days between shots, last week and half, previously 375iu.


    Middle of February08 I have made major reshuffling on my supplements and started the feeling that I am drifting out of steady state that I felt before. About two weeks ago I changed from 375iu hcg first to 500iu then to 750iu/EOD.
    Chassing my E2 I changed liquid Anastrozole from 0.33*7/2=1.155cc/week to current 1.33
    Slight improvement not much.
    My testicles feel as if (possibly) litle bit firmer, but scrotum is much tighter now than before. I do not have a time when scrotum would be fully relaxed. Sex is back from 3/week to hardly 2/week, much less intensity.

    Wonder what to think about?

    I have already e-mailed my doc, asking for blood work script.
    Hopefully within 2 weeks will have more concrete info.
    Just trying to figure some reasonable guesses.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Mainly I am thinking about HCG.
    I have supply of 1500iu ampoules.
    They can easyly be divided to 3-500iu or 2-750iu shots.
    Previously 1500/4=375
    Wonder which one to pick.
  13. The horror
    colkurtz_spf's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    672
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    27.98%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I had my last blood drawn 8/30/07
    Currenly I am EOD system
    T=178.5mg/week
    0.38cc liquid Anastrozole on day of shot, 0.38*7/2=1.33 Arimidex/week
    750iu hcg on days between shots, last week and half, previously 375iu.


    Middle of February08 I have made major reshuffling on my supplements and started the feeling that I am drifting out of steady state that I felt before. About two weeks ago I changed from 375iu hcg first to 500iu then to 750iu/EOD.
    Chassing my E2 I changed liquid Anastrozole from 0.33*7/2=1.155cc/week to current 1.33
    Slight improvement not much.
    My testicles feel as if (possibly) litle bit firmer, but scrotum is much tighter now than before. I do not have a time when scrotum would be fully relaxed. Sex is back from 3/week to hardly 2/week, much less intensity.

    Wonder what to think about?

    I have already e-mailed my doc, asking for blood work script.
    Hopefully within 2 weeks will have more concrete info.
    Just trying to figure some reasonable guesses.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Mainly I am thinking about HCG.
    I have supply of 1500iu ampoules.
    They can easyly be divided to 3-500iu or 2-750iu shots.
    Previously 1500/4=375
    Wonder which one to pick.
    You may have elevated estrogen, which is why the Anastrozole helped. I've been using the three day split for HCG and like it. I'll be curious to see the results of my draw. Maybe you need to increase your dosage of Anastrozole. I've gone as high as 3 mg/week while on HCG and had no problem. I tried 5 mg some time back, but didn't care much for the way I felt. Right now 1.5 mg is doing the trick, but I'm ready to move the dose up if necessary.
  14. New Member
    professorJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    35
    Rep Power
    107
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    70.85%

    arimidex


    Any of you guys who use Arimidex get it paid by insurance? I called pharmacy and they quoted me 12/pill for 1mg? Outrageous!

    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    I would go back to 1000 EOD. HCG peaks in 36 hours and lasts 72. If your estrogen levels get too high ask for Arimidex. For me it did the trick and drove my test levels even higher.
  15. Senior Member
    jinxie's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  155 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,290
    Rep Power
    40609
    Level
    34
    Lv. Percent
    53.84%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by professorJohn View Post
    Any of you guys who use Arimidex get it paid by insurance? I called pharmacy and they quoted me 12/pill for 1mg? Outrageous!
    I dont know anything about this product, but Jans uses Liquidex, I believe, and speaks favorably of it. There is also Liquifem. I hope this doesnt violate any posting rules. If so, I apologize.
  16. The horror
    colkurtz_spf's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    672
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    27.98%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by professorJohn View Post
    Any of you guys who use Arimidex get it paid by insurance? I called pharmacy and they quoted me 12/pill for 1mg? Outrageous!
    My insurance covers it. With co-pay my cost is $25 for 30 1 mg pills.
  17. New Member
    professorJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    35
    Rep Power
    107
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    70.85%

    Arimidex


    Did you have to get it prior authorized with your insurance company? My insurance company says they won't cover it because it is only for females...they call it a gender specific drug?

    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    My insurance covers it. With co-pay my cost is $25 for 30 1 mg pills.
  18. The horror
    colkurtz_spf's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    672
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    27.98%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by professorJohn View Post
    Did you have to get it prior authorized with your insurance company? My insurance company says they won't cover it because it is only for females...they call it a gender specific drug?
    My urologist prescribed. I took the script to Walgreens, handed them my insurance card and they asked for a $25 co-payment. I didn't ask them why it's covered. I assumed that Arimidex could be used to treat prostate issues.
  19. New Member
    phatkid77's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    353
    Rep Power
    316
    Level
    15
    Lv. Percent
    76.57%

    my wife says this, its either covered or its not... IE.

    its a covered drug for females with cancer, so they dont care if its scripted for a male
  20. The horror
    colkurtz_spf's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    672
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    27.98%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by phatkid77 View Post
    my wife says this, its either covered or its not... IE.

    its a covered drug for females with cancer, so they dont care if its scripted for a male

    FYI, I'm a male.
  21. New Member
    phatkid77's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    353
    Rep Power
    316
    Level
    15
    Lv. Percent
    76.57%

    i know, thanks...lol, what my elaborate post says...its covered...or should be
  22. New Member
    professorJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    35
    Rep Power
    107
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    70.85%

    arimidex


    Makes sense. What dose of arimidex does your doctor have you on and what range does that dose keep your E2 in?


    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    My urologist prescribed. I took the script to Walgreens, handed them my insurance card and they asked for a $25 co-payment. I didn't ask them why it's covered. I assumed that Arimidex could be used to treat prostate issues.
  23. New Member
    professorJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    35
    Rep Power
    107
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    70.85%

    arimidex


    I wish my plan was that simple. I have Caremark and they say it is a gender specific drug, for females and breast cancer, and for me to be approved my doctor must show a medical neccesity; problem is not sure what they would accept as medical necessity for a man?

    Quote Originally Posted by phatkid77 View Post
    my wife says this, its either covered or its not... IE.

    its a covered drug for females with cancer, so they dont care if its scripted for a male
  24. The horror
    colkurtz_spf's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    672
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    27.98%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by professorJohn View Post
    Makes sense. What dose of arimidex does your doctor have you on and what range does that dose keep your E2 in?
    Right now I'm on 1.5 mg per week. MY last draw in January showed estradiol at 26.
  25. New Member
    professorJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    35
    Rep Power
    107
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    70.85%

    Arimidex


    Thank you. I assume from the E2 number you quote your doctor uses the Quest standard estradiol test, range 13-54?

    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    Right now I'm on 1.5 mg per week. MY last draw in January showed estradiol at 26.
  26. The horror
    colkurtz_spf's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    672
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    27.98%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by professorJohn View Post
    Thank you. I assume from the E2 number you quote your doctor uses the Quest standard estradiol test, range 13-54?
    I'm not sure. Cenegenics handles everything and delivers it on their own template. Around 8 months ago I had partial results sent to my urologist. They came from Quest.
  27. New Member
    professorJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    35
    Rep Power
    107
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    70.85%

    Arimidex


    Okay thank you. On your arimidex of 1.5mg per week, do you take .5 three times per week or some other combination. Thanks again.

    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    I'm not sure. Cenegenics handles everything and delivers it on their own template. Around 8 months ago I had partial results sent to my urologist. They came from Quest.
  28. The horror
    colkurtz_spf's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    672
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    27.98%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by professorJohn View Post
    Okay thank you. On your arimidex of 1.5mg per week, do you take .5 three times per week or some other combination. Thanks again.
    .5mg 3 times per week. I use a splitter which isn't effective. I can't say that doses are exact. I would switch to Liquidex if my cost wasn't unbeatable.
  29. New Member
    phatkid77's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    353
    Rep Power
    316
    Level
    15
    Lv. Percent
    76.57%

    get your doctor to say family history of breast cancer, maybe you have a lump... preventative measures is the reason for script

    phats
  30. Senior Member
    jinxie's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  155 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,290
    Rep Power
    40609
    Level
    34
    Lv. Percent
    53.84%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by phatkid77 View Post
    get your doctor to say family history of breast cancer, maybe you have a lump... preventative measures is the reason for script

    phats
    great, if all else fails, fraud. i'd just buy liquidex. it's cheap. ask Jan about dosing it.
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. anybody restoring on old car?
    By tubbednova in forum General Chat
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 05-27-2011, 03:04 PM
  2. Restoring libido..
    By thenxtgrt1 in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 02-25-2009, 09:42 AM
  3. HCG/TRT restoring ED
    By engival in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 05-07-2007, 04:23 PM
  4. Need Help in restoring libido In PCT
    By Zombie in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 06-30-2006, 02:37 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in