Nebido -test Undeconate Injections

[corsaking123]

As i have low test i have an injection of nebido every 11 weeks
From what ive read it peaks for a short time in the 3/4 weeks to levels outside the normal peak measured by doctors and then falls back in line again until the 11th week when test is low again.
im just wondering if i need to be concerned about estrogen levels and cortisol during this 3 /4 week period or at any time in the 11 weeks.

I will never require post cycle therapy and have considered using a prohormone that doesnt aromatise etc in weeks 8 9 10 to try to avoid the decline .Week 11 is out in case the doc decides he wants a test blood reading.

I dont suffer from any estrogen problems but i would like to get the best from this treatment so wonder if it can be finetuned.

Any advice please?

 

[JanSz]

As i have low test i have an injection of nebido every 11 weeks
From what ive read it peaks for a short time in the 3/4 weeks to levels outside the normal peak measured by doctors and then falls back in line again until the 11th week when test is low again.
im just wondering if i need to be concerned about estrogen levels and cortisol during this 3 /4 week period or at any time in the 11 weeks.

I will never require post cycle therapy and have considered using a prohormone that doesnt aromatise etc in weeks 8 9 10 to try to avoid the decline .Week 11 is out in case the doc decides he wants a test blood reading.

I dont suffer from any estrogen problems but i would like to get the best from this treatment so wonder if it can be finetuned.

Any advice please?

As with any testosterone supplementation you are going to have some maximum and latter minimum TotalTestosterone blood level.

Think of (TTmax-TTmin)=DeltaTT

You goal really is to figure out if that 11 weeks gives you tolerable (DeltaTT).
If not then you may want to reduce the time interval to 10 or 9 weeks.

First judge it by how you feel.

Since the change is slow, I would expect minimal changes to youe E2 status. If you were ok to begin with, you should be ok afterward.
Same with your DHT levels.

To monitor all process I would recomend testing at Quest Diagnostics using thise three tests:

Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)

If you have any of this tests results from before nebido implantation, post it here.

 

[JanSz]

Just my personal feed back.
If possible change to something else. I've been on it now for almost 3 years and have to take a shot every 5 weeks to keep the levels high enough. And then supplement with a-dex to keep E2 in check. For more fedd back go to http://www.andropause.org.uk/newforum/forum_frameset.htm and do a search "nebido". Everybody reacts his own way to it but for sure 12 weeks between shots is not working.

Sounds logical.
There is a good possiblility that is you started more testing, as I mention on my previus post, that you would end up once every 4 weeks shots.
Really not bad deal, shots once/month, approx.
Using it required AI, that mean nebido behaves predictably, like other T injections.

Wish that there was a study.
If that was me, I would take a E2D, every other day injections with Depo-Testosterone as a standard.
And try to get frequency of nebido shots adjusted in such a way that would give similar response.
.
.

 

[corsaking123]

ThankS to everyone for their comments.However I live in the UK and it is difficult to get what you want when treatment is free under the NHS.I would like to have my SHBG measured along with my E2 but this has not yet been done since ive been on trt.although its been requested.

My alternative is to find a private specialist but i cannot be treated without my GP referral as i understand it.

 

[JanSz]

ThankS to everyone for their comments.However I live in the UK and it is difficult to get what you want when treatment is free under the NHS.I would like to have my SHBG measured along with my E2 but this has not yet been done since ive been on trt.although its been requested.

My alternative is to find a private specialist but i cannot be treated without my GP referral as i understand it.

You are in luck.
In your neighborhood is laboratory that will do all that you need, no script required, just valid credit card.

This is a list of tests that they do:
Our Tests

I am not familiar with details of these tests, I am in USA.
Try talking to them and ask for a test that is clossest to:

Estroessence Complete 24hr


They also have Phlebotomy Services

Practitioners Section
==============================================================
This is relatively new development,
the lab was called
INDIVIDUAL WELLBEING DIAGNOSTIC LABORATORY, LTD

Genova Diagnostics

Genova Diagnostics
--------
GENOVA DIAGNOSTICS, INC. ACQUIRES INDIVIDUAL WELLBEING DIAGNOSTIC LABORATORY, LTD

February 28, 2007 - Asheville, NC - Genova Diagnostics, Inc. (www.gdx.net), a leading US specialty clinical laboratory providing innovative testing and services for the promotion of optimal health, announced today that it has acquired Individual Wellbeing Diagnostic Laboratory, Ltd, (IWDL) a leading specialty clinical laboratory in the United Kingdom.

The combination of Genova and IWDL offers significant benefits to UK clinicians and patients, including increased clinical education with more testing performed locally, thereby reducing test result turn-around-time. The acquisition also provides Genova with a laboratory facility in Europe, a rapidly growing market for specialty testing.

 

[jrj]

Free E2

As with any testosterone supplementation you are going to have some maximum and latter minimum TotalTestosterone blood level.

Think of (TTmax-TTmin)=DeltaTT

You goal really is to figure out if that 11 weeks gives you tolerable (DeltaTT).
If not then you may want to reduce the time interval to 10 or 9 weeks.

First judge it by how you feel.

Since the change is slow, I would expect minimal changes to youe E2 status. If you were ok to begin with, you should be ok afterward.
Same with your DHT levels.

To monitor all process I would recomend testing at Quest Diagnostics using thise three tests:

Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)

If you have any of this tests results from before nebido implantation, post it here.

Jan:

Do you feel the free estradiol test is more beneficial than the ultrasensative, and if so could you please explain why? Thanks

 

[JanSz]

Jan:

Do you feel the free estradiol test is more beneficial than the ultrasensative, and if so could you please explain why? Thanks

Same idea as why using
BioAvailableTestosterone
as a goal is better than
TotalTestosterone

Bioavailable= Free + weakly bound
applicable to either T or E2

Testosterone and Estrogens bind with the SHBG

what counts if free and weakly bound

weakly bound=bound with albumin

at the moment I do not see available test for
Free and weakly bound estrodial
so FreeE2 is the best available test.


Would you mind if I quote what Quest Diagnostic is saying about this test???

Quest Diagnostics: Test Menu


Clinical Significance:

Much of Estradiol is bound to proteins. The unbound
portion and Estradiol bound to proteins with low affinity
reflect the Free concentration. The Free Estradiol may
better correlate with medical conditions than the Total
Estradiol concentrations.

----------------------------------------------------------
The way Quest is describing FreeE2 I would not be surprised if they are actually describing :
Free & weakly bound
that would be rather inconsistent since on testosterone test the do make distinction
between FreeT and BAT.

 

[jrj]

FreeE2

Same idea as why using
BioAvailableTestosterone
as a goal is better than
TotalTestosterone

Bioavailable= Free + weakly bound
applicable to either T or E2

Testosterone and Estrogens bind with the SHBG

what counts if free and weakly bound

weakly bound=bound with albumin

at the moment I do not see available test for
Free and weakly bound estrodial
so FreeE2 is the best available test.


Would you mind if I quote what Quest Diagnostic is saying about this test???

[url=http://cas2.questdiagnostics.com/scripts/webdos.wls?MGWLPN=QDCIAP20&wlapp=DOS&OrderCode=41772N&SITE=4&SearchString=ESTR&tmradio=title]Quest Diagnostics: Test Menu[/url]


Clinical Significance:

Much of Estradiol is bound to proteins. The unbound
portion and Estradiol bound to proteins with low affinity
reflect the Free concentration. The Free Estradiol may
better correlate with medical conditions than the Total
Estradiol concentrations.


----------------------------------------------------------
The way Quest is describing FreeE2 I would not be surprised if they are actually describing :
Free & weakly bound
that would be rather inconsistent since on testosterone test the do make distinction
between FreeT and BAT.

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. I see from the link you provided that for males the range is as follows:Males (Adult): < or = 0.45 pg/mL . In you're opinion if the level is greater than .45, one should consider Adex treatment? Thanks again.

 

[JanSz]

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. I see from the link you provided that for males the range is as follows:Males (Adult): < or = 0.45 pg/mL . In you're opinion if the level is greater than .45, one should consider Adex treatment? Thanks again.

On my last test I got

E2=29(= or < 29)

FreeE2=0.75(= or < 0.45)

I still felt ok at the time.
Adjusting for correct E2 is rather touch and go affair.
I increased my liquidex tiny bit, one notch on syringe IIRC, was 32 now 33.

I am overall on EOD schedule

day #1 (T + AI)
day #2 (380iu HCG)


For AI I use now Anastrozole from Chem One research
previouly I have used LiquiDex.
They are both of same strength, 1mg/mL
I use insuline syringe with (deeply) cut out needle to dispense AI.
I use now 33units on days of T shot.

That would be equal to
0.33*7/2=1.155 Arimidex pills weekly (on average).

======================
For my freeE2 I have made (mentally) a range

(0.45 - 0.6)

 

[epu]

Nebido is due to be released in the US in summer, 08 i believe. How much nebido are you injecting every 11 weeks?

 

[corsaking123]

Nebido is made by SCHERING.Its a 4 ml ampoule consisting of 250mg of test per 1 ml of castor oil.Therefore you are getting 1000mg of test undeconate to slow release over the 11 week period
As far as i am aware test peaks in the blood in weeks 3 /4 and can be in the superphysilogical range(off scale) but fall back with range shortly after.Its for this reason i expect that estrogen
is not considered a problem.