200mg every 4 weeks??

[mr13percent]

Well, good and bad news. Good news is my endo switched me to injections 200mg Test Cyp. from 2.5g Androgel daily. Bad news, it's only once every 4 weeks.

I see him again in 5 months, he wants me to get blood drawn before and after my 4th shot (4th month) He said once he see the results he will know whether to keep it like it is or make the shots more frequent.

I hope I don't go on an emotional rollercoaster. But I told him this, and he said that's why he will draw blood before and after the last shot.

So ya that's where I stand now. I plan on still using the Androgel to compensate for the in between time from each shot. Good or bad idea?

I am working with, a 10mL vial with 1mL = 200mg of Test Cy and 5 refills. Seeing how there are 20 100mg doses in one 10mL vial, I was thinking of just giving myself 100mg weekly. If I do this i won't need to use any refills. The only reason I think I may not is because of the blood test he wants me to take on the 4th shot.

I'm at a loss. I want to do as doc said, but I don't think I can go 5 months with this protocol. I was just curious at to what you guys would do if you can't currently change doctors. thanks for the long read all

 

[MarkLA]

Well, good and bad news. Good news is my endo switched me to injections 200mg Test Cyp. from 2.5g Androgel daily. Bad news, it's only once every 4 weeks.

I see him again in 5 months, he wants me to get blood drawn before and after my 4th shot (4th month) He said once he see the results he will know whether to keep it like it is or make the shots more frequent.

I hope I don't go on an emotional rollercoaster. But I told him this, and he said that's why he will draw blood before and after the last shot.

So ya that's where I stand now. I plan on still using the Androgel to compensate for the in between time from each shot. Good or bad idea?

I am working with, a 10mL vial with 1mL = 200mg of Test Cy and 5 refills. Seeing how there are 20 100mg doses in one 10mL vial, I was thinking of just giving myself 100mg weekly. If I do this i won't need to use any refills. The only reason I think I may not is because of the blood test he wants me to take on the 4th shot.

I'm at a loss. I want to do as doc said, but I don't think I can go 5 months with this protocol. I was just curious at to what you guys would do if you can't currently change doctors. thanks for the long read all

200mg every 4 weeks is likely to be painful as you described.

Andogel in between would help symptoms, but throw off the test and disobey your Dr.

Increasing the dosage and frequency would probably help with the symptoms but again disobey your Dr.

I'd suggest either toughing it out or (better IMHO) not starting it at all and finding a new Dr. I don't think disobeying the Dr/self treatment is a good idea. He's not going to keep you as a patient anyway once he finds out you're doing your own thing.

Many of us have been through more than one doc before finding a good one. It's part of the process.


Mark

 

[Hyde12]

200mg every 4 weeks is likely to be painful as you described.

Andogel in between would help symptoms, but throw off the test and disobey your Dr.

Increasing the dosage and frequency would probably help with the symptoms but again disobey your Dr.

I'd suggest either toughing it out or (better IMHO) not starting it at all and finding a new Dr. I don't think disobeying the Dr/self treatment is a good idea. He's not going to keep you as a patient anyway once he finds out you're doing your own thing.

Many of us have been through more than one doc before finding a good one. It's part of the process.


Mark

I say f$%& that! Find a new doc ASAP! At that dose his test is going to be lower than when he started TRT.

 

[OldGator]

I say f$%& that! Find a new doc ASAP! At that dose his test is going to be lower than when he started TRT.

And 13's doc is an ENDO no less. Wow.
That's a very "unusual" protocol.

 

[JanSz]

Well, good and bad news. Good news is my endo switched me to injections 200mg Test Cyp. from 2.5g Androgel daily. Bad news, it's only once every 4 weeks.

I see him again in 5 months, he wants me to get blood drawn before and after my 4th shot (4th month) He said once he see the results he will know whether to keep it like it is or make the shots more frequent.

I hope I don't go on an emotional rollercoaster. But I told him this, and he said that's why he will draw blood before and after the last shot.

So ya that's where I stand now. I plan on still using the Androgel to compensate for the in between time from each shot. Good or bad idea?

I am working with, a 10mL vial with 1mL = 200mg of Test Cy and 5 refills. Seeing how there are 20 100mg doses in one 10mL vial, I was thinking of just giving myself 100mg weekly. If I do this i won't need to use any refills. The only reason I think I may not is because of the blood test he wants me to take on the 4th shot.

I'm at a loss. I want to do as doc said, but I don't think I can go 5 months with this protocol. I was just curious at to what you guys would do if you can't currently change doctors. thanks for the long read all

So you have 6 vials of testosterone comming.
Go get those refills one every week or couple days, so you physically have them with you.
Script for test is good for few months only, watch out.
This is the most important part, to secure testosterone supply.

I do not know your SHBG but on average you need need 150mg/week. Best if EOD schedule.
Testing of T levels is of lesser consequence.
Important is to test E2.
Get script from LEF for that and get liquid AI so you are able to control e2 properly (about $30 a pop).

at 150mg/week you 6 vials are good for

6*10*200/150=80 weeks a 1.5 years

You have 1.5 years to find good doctor.
Start looking for one now.
Try osteopaths first.
If by about October of this year you are still looking for a doctor, switch to 100mg/week, you will buy some more time..

 

[OldGator]

So you have 6 vials of testosterone comming. You have 1.5 years to find good doctor.

That's my man JanSz!!

 

[JanSz]

That's my man JanSz!!

Thank you,
but I am not sure if he will be able to get all that test to his home and the script will expire at best within 6 months, probably sooner.
It will depend on pharmacy to give him frequent refills.
I have a good refill (and price) history with womensinternational.
But their Test is compounded and have shelf life of about 6 months IIRC.

I just bought original DepoT at Walgreen, exp 7/2010

Probably new supply,
the old vial that I am finishing is good till 3/2008 and the previous was same 3/2008.

 

[mr13percent]

So you have 6 vials of testosterone comming.
Go get those refills one every week or couple days, so you physically have them with you.
Script for test is good for few months only, watch out.
This is the most important part, to secure testosterone supply.

I do not know your SHBG but on average you need need 150mg/week. Best if EOD schedule.
Testing of T levels is of lesser consequence.
Important is to test E2.
Get script from LEF for that and get liquid AI so you are able to control e2 properly (about $30 a pop).

at 150mg/week you 6 vials are good for

6*10*200/150=80 weeks a 1.5 years

You have 1.5 years to find good doctor.
Start looking for one now.
Try osteopaths first.
If by about October of this year you are still looking for a doctor, switch to 100mg/week, you will buy some more time..

Thanks so much for responding everyone. That regiment sounds good to me JanSz.

Here's the thing though, my current vial is good until 2/2009. I'm sure my refills will have a longer exp. date when I get them. I was planning on jst getting a new bottle when the current one is almost out. If I go too soon they will be suspect.

How should I go about getting the AI, pretty sure doc not going to prescribe it. If I ask about it all he'll do is lower my dose I just know it.

Good news is I think I have just about talked my parents into going to see Dr. Crisler. So hopefully he will give me better treatment. My only concern with him is that he doesn't take insurance and I know my parents won't pick him over Endo if that's the case.

Thanks again for the help. Also I have the results of my latest blood test with Estrogen numbers included if you'd like them.

 

[whiteowl]

hey M8,

i fought my doc for two years over depression meds....then i woke one night and realized i wasn't just hot, that i was sweating from every pore on my body....did my own homework and demanded a testosterone test...143....and then spent the next six months while they played with the lowest dosages they could....so i lost over two years of my life while my Dr went about his life .....my advice...get a new Dr NOW....you will not get these six months back...and i guarantee you that your Dr gave you not a second thought the minute you walked out of his office....Jansz has the right idea....and trust me on this...if one is good two is NOT better so if you are looking for HRT, don't get silly with the dosage.... if testosterone was not a controlled substance your Dr would be all over this trying to get you right straight away.....not waiting six months....Bulls**t....get a new dr...and get your scripts filled....JanSz is defintely giving you a good line on this.

 

[mr13percent]

Here are my most recent numbers after two weeks of being on Androgel @ 2.5g daily

Numbers with the ranges:

SHBG = 42nmol/L (13-71)
DHEA - 6.1ng/mL (1.9-7.6)
DHEA Sulfate - 426ug/dL (280-640)
Estradiol - 11.5pg/mL (10-42)
Estrone <E1> Serum - 12.1pg/mL (19-39)
Total Estrogens - 23.6pg/mL (19-69)

On a side note, I have 2 more refills left on my Androgel, should I keep taking it?

Also, as I mentioned earlier, I have just about convinced my parents into seeing Dr. Crisler. Thing is, they want to check and see if he's legit, ie: credited, such as in the American Journal of Medicine etc.

If any of you guys have this kind of information, they'd be on board.

 

[RoadBlocK]

............... If I go too soon they will be suspect...............

Just fyi, friend of mine had a problem with pharmacist, went to get legit script refilled and the pharmacist said it was "too soon to be refilled from the last refill", they told him he had to wait at least four more weeks. He wasnt trying to do anything funny, just had some extra cash, since hes not covered by ins. and wanted to take care of rx while he had some extra money in his pocket. Again, just fyi.

Have you considered going back to the doctor in a couple of weeks and telling him you feel like crap(since most likely you will) and see if he will up the dose to a more realistic amount. You can gather info online from legitimate medical websites that clearly show 200mg every 4 weeks for cyp is not what is normally prescribed.

 

[mr13percent]

You can gather info online from legitimate medical websites that clearly show 200mg every 4 weeks for cyp is not what is normally prescribed.

Any suggestions on where to look first? thanks btw

 

[JanSz]

Here are my most recent numbers after two weeks of being on Androgel @ 2.5g daily

Numbers with the ranges:

SHBG = 42nmol/L (13-71)
DHEA - 6.1ng/mL (1.9-7.6)
DHEA Sulfate - 426ug/dL (280-640)
Estradiol - 11.5pg/mL (10-42)
Estrone <E1> Serum - 12.1pg/mL (19-39)
Total Estrogens - 23.6pg/mL (19-69)

On a side note, I have 2 more refills left on my Androgel, should I keep taking it?

Also, as I mentioned earlier, I have just about convinced my parents into seeing Dr. Crisler. Thing is, they want to check and see if he's legit, ie: credited, such as in the American Journal of Medicine etc.

If any of you guys have this kind of information, they'd be on board.

I am sure someone will PM you on where to get liquid AI.

At the moment you are low on both E2 and E1.
Stay away from any AI until blood test shows that you need it.
You did not posted your current TT.

Based on SHBG=42 (high)
you need about

195mg/week

As you get up on TotalT, with time your SHBG may get down.

2.5gram/day is not even close, possibly 10grams/day may be,
if you waited and you SHBG falled somewhat.

See table on post #40
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

It would be a good idea to get some more testing, your SHBG is rather high, why?

Doctor should not left you hanging for 5-6 months.
I do not know your DHT but with low E1 & E2 you need T shots. Shots will increase your estrogens, hopefully.

 

[RoadBlocK]

Any suggestions on where to look first? thanks btw

Its tough to say, as you could have an encyclopedia filled with information, but if you try to show the doctor hes wrong, nothing might help.

If you want my advice, suck it up for a month, go back in and tell him the truth that you feel bad(because you most likely will) and tell him you have been doing some research on your own trying to learn about your condition, and "ask" him if "he" might think it was a good idea to increase the dosage more along the lines with what you have been reading about and see if that will "help you feel better.'

You can look at these websites or google and search around:

http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec17/ch227/ch227b.html
This merck one has dosage info:
In the paragraph that starts with "
Adults with established testosterone deficiency" you will notice it clearly says:

enanthate or cypionate (100 mg q 7 days or 200 mg q 10 to 14 days)

http://www.medicinenet.com/testosterone-intramuscular/article.htm

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=20995

http://www.duj.com/Article/Hellstrom2/Hellstrom2.html

http://aids.about.com/cs/druginformation/p/testomed.htm

http://www.usdoctor.com/testone.htm

You use this info at your own risk, I cant vouch for any of it, and cant say its all 100% accurate. Just trying to help you get started on your researching.

On a side note: No one else thinks its odd to go from 2.5gel for two weeks, right to shots with 4 week intervals?? Wouldnt proper protocol be going to 5g then retest, then possibly 7.5g or 10g or goto shots?

 

[OldGator]

On a side note: No one else thinks its odd to go from 2.5gel for two weeks, right to shots with 4 week intervals??

It's more than just "odd". JanSz, Hyde, MarkLA, and I spoke to that earlier in this thread.

 

[mr13percent]

I am sure someone will PM you on where to get liquid AI.

not yet..

It would be a good idea to get some more testing, your SHBG is rather high, why?

no idea why, what kind of tests would you suggest?

Total T went from 548ng/dL to 460ng/dL, but he said that didn't matter cause my Free T went up from 5.62ng/dL to 6.84ng/dL (3.68-19.12) with the 2.5g of Androgel

On a side note: No one else thinks its odd to go from 2.5gel for two weeks, right to shots with 4 week intervals?? Wouldnt proper protocol be going to 5g then retest, then possibly 7.5g or 10g or goto shots?

thanks for the links Road, lots of good info there. he switched me to shots because I ask him to. I told him the gel wasnt working out.


On a side note guys, I did the shot this past Friday and my nipples have been sore all day.. i'm thinking this is not a good sign.

 

[RoadBlocK]

It's more than just "odd". JanSz, Hyde, MarkLA, and I spoke to that earlier in this thread.

OG, I saw about the 4 week thing, but I was more commenting on the jump from 2.5g of gel right into a shot protocol(however misguided). My friend went to two different doctors and both wanted him to follow the gel protocol, all the way up to 10g a day as a matter of fact, with several retests throughout, before even considering the shots. I guess it depends on how liberal the doctor is, but from what my friend relayed to me, in his case, it was standard practice to try out the various gels before giving the shots.

Ok sorry to steal the thread, just wanted to clear up what I was getting at.

 

[JanSz]

OG, I saw about the 4 week thing, but I was more commenting on the jump from 2.5g of gel right into a shot protocol(however misguided). My friend went to two different doctors and both wanted him to follow the gel protocol, all the way up to 10g a day as a matter of fact, with several retests throughout, before even considering the shots. I guess it depends on how liberal the doctor is, but from what my friend relayed to me, in his case, it was standard practice to try out the various gels before giving the shots.

Ok sorry to steal the thread, just wanted to clear up what I was getting at.

Using shots or transdermals is often discussed.

I have my pov, there are other.
Having a choice I would use transdermals only if someone had low DHT and need to raise it.

Shots raise E2, that is controllable using Anastrozile (gingerly).
I rather not be in position to control high DHT.
----------------------
With all that said, I was using Androgel for years and controlled high DHT using Proscar and latter Avodart.
I did not had a choice, that was the only available way to me at the time.
I am glad that I missed the finasteride curse (I think).

 

[mr13percent]

update

alright I just talked with my mom and she has at least read about Dr. Crisler's protocol, as well as left a message with him asking about why he doesn't accept insurance and for him to call her back.

my mom wants me to make a list of questions to ask my endo that relate to Dr. Crisler's writings on TRT see here: http://www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/TRT.doc

her big concern is why my endo tests blood levels 5 months after frontloading 200mg as compared to Crisler doing after 5 weeks.

i am in the process of making the list, if any of you guys have any questions to forward to my endo after reading Crisler's work, now is the time (and would be greatly appreciated)

i'd like to have my list of questions for her by tomorrow morning, so she can run it and a copy of Dr. Crisler's TRT: Recipe for Success over to the endo's office.

Here are my current ?s:

1) Did he mean to test blood levels after 5 weeks or 5 months? According to Dr. Crisler, "By the end of the 5th week, the pharmacodynamics of testosterone cypionate (half-life 5-8 days) are such that relatively stable serum levels are now being produced via weekly injections." (located on the bottom of page 9 and top of page 10)

2) If breast issues such as tenderness/gynocemastia should occur, would he be willing to prescribe SERMs such as Nolvadex or Arimidex to control estrogen levels?

3) Are loss of fertility and testicular atrophy issues I should be concerned with? If so, would supplementing with HCG be applicable in my case?

 

[Hyde12]

update

alright I just talked with my mom and she has at least read about Dr. Crisler's protocol, as well as left a message with him asking about why he doesn't accept insurance and for him to call her back.

my mom wants me to make a list of questions to ask my endo that relate to Dr. Crisler's writings on TRT see here: http://www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/TRT.doc

her big concern is why my endo tests blood levels 5 months after frontloading 200mg as compared to Crisler doing after 5 weeks.

i am in the process of making the list, if any of you guys have any questions to forward to my endo after reading Crisler's work, now is the time (and would be greatly appreciated)

i'd like to have my list of questions for her by tomorrow morning, so she can run it and a copy of Dr. Crisler's TRT: Recipe for Success over to the endo's office.

Here are my current ?s:

1) Did he mean to test blood levels after 5 weeks or 5 months? According to Dr. Crisler, "By the end of the 5th week, the pharmacodynamics of testosterone cypionate (half-life 5-8 days) are such that relatively stable serum levels are now being produced via weekly injections." (located on the bottom of page 9 and top of page 10)

2) If breast issues such as tenderness/gynocemastia should occur, would he be willing to prescribe SERMs such as Nolvadex or Arimidex to control estrogen levels?

3) Are loss of fertility and testicular atrophy issues I should be concerned with? If so, would supplementing with HCG be applicable in my case?

Most endo's get very offended when you bring them papers from another Dr. especially if you got it off the internet. Be careful how you approach this.

 

[mr13percent]

I'm going to ask his opinion on the said issues and try not to be too aggressive with him and let him still feel like he's the doc and I'm the patient (ie: not come across like I'm questioning his procedure/methods...too much )

 

[mr13percent]

BAD NEWS

Mom just go off the phone with the endo and he said he doesn't even think I need to be on TRT!

He said I don't have any severe symptoms, ie: lack of facial hair, lack of deepening of the voice, low numbers.

I was suffering from: (keep in mind I'm 22yrs old ~135lbs 5'4".5 / bf >15%)
- low libido - trouble keeping and getting hard
- tired all the time
- trouble sleeping (at night)
- trouble putting on muscle, but not fat even with perfect diet

What else does he want? damn

My numbers when I first saw him were:
Total T: 405ng/dL (320-864)
Free T %: 1.4% (1.6-2.9)
Free T: 5.62ng/dL (3.68-19.13)

Big question: Why the hell did he diagnosis me with having hypogandism then in the first place and go ahead with the treatment?

Question about Dr. Crisler though, what kind of doctor doesn't call you back or take insurance? This doesn't seem right.

 

[whiteowl]

gotta be aggresive and find another doc..... at 22 you should be an energizer bunny....sucks when you are tired all day and can't sleep at night.....sounds like your Ma is a good advocate....tell her she has to stay on this....you're only young once...i went to the University of California...you know what you call a guy who graduates from medical school with a 'D' average? Doctor....find one who cares M8.

 

[JanSz]

BAD NEWS

Mom just go off the phone with the endo and he said he doesn't even think I need to be on TRT!

He said I don't have any severe symptoms, ie: lack of facial hair, lack of deepening of the voice, low numbers.

I was suffering from: (keep in mind I'm 22yrs old ~135lbs 5'4".5 / bf >15%)
- low libido - trouble keeping and getting hard
- tired all the time
- trouble sleeping (at night)
- trouble putting on muscle, but not fat even with perfect diet

What else does he want? damn

My numbers when I first saw him were:
Total T: 405ng/dL (320-864)
Free T %: 1.4% (1.6-2.9)
Free T: 5.62ng/dL (3.68-19.13)

Big question: Why the hell did he diagnosis me with having hypogandism then in the first place and go ahead with the treatment?

Question about Dr. Crisler though, what kind of doctor doesn't call you back or take insurance? This doesn't seem right.

Why does dr Crisler have to call you back, you are trying to convince him to take your insurance, he is not interested.

You are getting good deal with dr Crisler, just try to find better deal, if you do, take it.

Dr. Crisler would have to hire another three or four people to process insurance paperwork.
You would not like to be charged extra fee to cover salary of these people, do you?

You will get receipt of any charges that you will have,
then you go and fight the system to get some money back, and wait sometimes year or longer.

He is not making any secrets about this.

read below, you will have to sign it before he will see you.

http://www.allthingsmale.com/pdfs/authorization.pdf

23. I will not bill Medicare, Medicaid or any federal or state funded health benefit program
for either the medical consultation, or medications provided by, or through, my
association with ATM. I also understand ATM may provide me with a receipt, if I
specifically request one, for my Consultation Fee, and any medications and/or syringes I
may choose to purchase, but does not directly bill medical insurance companies.

 

[mr13percent]

Why does dr Crisler have to call you back, you are trying to convince him to take your insurance, he is not interested.

Sorry if I came across like I was showing animosity towards Dr. Crisler I don't have any at all. I was just really upset at my endo for him telling me I shouldn't be feeling bad and that I didn't need the treatment.

FYI (not that it really matters)I didn't mention anything about insurance on the phone, just for him to call me back.

Anyways, the great news is Kim (from Dr. Crisler's office) called my mom back and talked with her. My mom said I could go and see Dr. Crisler as long as my father ran shotgun. I have no problem with this, so now we are just looking to set up a date.

One thing I noticed, maybe those of you who see Dr. Crisler can elaborate further, is that he sends Rx etc. to your GP for him to prescribe? Well, I talked with my GP the other day and he said he never prescribes AIs and or testosterone to those within normal range...even if it is on the low side.

Not sure if I'm gonna have to get a new GP(which won't fly) or if Dr. Crisler will work around it.

Any thoughts?

 

[JanSz]

update
alright I just talked with my mom and she has at least read about Dr. Crisler's protocol, as well as left a message with him asking about why he doesn't accept insurance and for him to call her back.

Sorry if I came across like I was showing animosity towards Dr. Crisler I don't have any at all. I was just really upset at my endo for him telling me I shouldn't be feeling bad and that I didn't need the treatment.

FYI (not that it really matters)I didn't mention anything about insurance on the phone, just for him to call me back.

Anyways, the great news is Kim (from Dr. Crisler's office) called my mom back and talked with her. My mom said I could go and see Dr. Crisler as long as my father ran shotgun. I have no problem with this, so now we are just looking to set up a date.

One thing I noticed, maybe those of you who see Dr. Crisler can elaborate further, is that he sends Rx etc. to your GP for him to prescribe? Well, I talked with my GP the other day and he said he never prescribes AIs and or testosterone to those within normal range...even if it is on the low side.

Not sure if I'm gonna have to get a new GP(which won't fly) or if Dr. Crisler will work around it.

Any thoughts?

There is two ways you can get help from dr John.

#1 make a trip to see him
#2 have your doc call him for consultation

I suggest that you make all effort to see dr John.
You are becoming his patient, he writes all scripts that he wants you to have.

The #2 way back-fires sooner or latter. Dr John's ways are cutting edge, when hi tell your doc what to do, at some point it will be over the head of your local doc and he will bail out.
You will be left on ice.

Going with dr John is still riddled with problems.
Dr John takes care of a part of your health problem that hi want. He stops where hi want and leave the rest to somebody else to take care of.

As far as I can see, dr John will take care of your TRT part for sure.
TRT being, testosterone, (some) estrogens. I guess he is not much into DHT control (by choice).
He may deal with adrenals and thyroid to some extend.
(people who are dr John patients are welcome to make corrections).

So it is good to go with open eyes to see dr John.
I would say that you cannot get better bang for your $300 anywhere else.

But if you have some other health problems I do not think that dr John would make any, even preliminary investigations.
That is you still need your General Practioner doctor to watch you and send you to proper specialist.

 

[anyman]

Most of the leaders in this field do NOT take insurance. "Why?" you ask. (m)

The answer is easy. What Drs like Crisler and Shippen, etc do is well beyond the all too often useless drones of "mainstream" medicine. If they had to spend the vast amount of time most doctors do fighting with the "screw anyone to save a penny" insurance companies they wouldn't be able to do what they do. Many carriers reimburse as little as $40 for a visit, not including your co pay. How long could Crisler or Shippen earn a living if they not only worked for pennies, but saw pretty much every one of their suggestions rejected as they don't always conform. For example, my carrier at first refused to pay for T cyp, but would pay for Androgel--even though T cyp was HALF as expensive and Androgel didn't do much for me. Took quite the battle to knock sense into the stupid bastards.

 

[cpeil2]

The answer is easy. What Drs like Crisler and Shippen, etc do is well beyond the all too often useless drones of "mainstream" medicine. If they had to spend the vast amount of time most doctors do fighting with the "screw anyone to save a penny" insurance companies they wouldn't be able to do what they do. Many carriers reimburse as little as $40 for a visit, not including your co pay. How long could Crisler or Shippen earn a living if they not only worked for pennies, but saw pretty much every one of their suggestions rejected as they don't always conform. For example, my carrier at first refused to pay for T cyp, but would pay for Androgel--even though T cyp was HALF as expensive and Androgel didn't do much for me. Took quite the battle to knock sense into the stupid bastards.

They also preserve a lot of autonomy if they don't deal with third party payers, esp. medicare and medicaid.

 

[MacDonnell]

Sorry if I came across like I was showing animosity towards Dr. Crisler I don't have any at all. I was just really upset at my endo for him telling me I shouldn't be feeling bad and that I didn't need the treatment.

FYI (not that it really matters)I didn't mention anything about insurance on the phone, just for him to call me back.

Anyways, the great news is Kim (from Dr. Crisler's office) called my mom back and talked with her. My mom said I could go and see Dr. Crisler as long as my father ran shotgun. I have no problem with this, so now we are just looking to set up a date.

One thing I noticed, maybe those of you who see Dr. Crisler can elaborate further, is that he sends Rx etc. to your GP for him to prescribe? Well, I talked with my GP the other day and he said he never prescribes AIs and or testosterone to those within normal range...even if it is on the low side.

Not sure if I'm gonna have to get a new GP(which won't fly) or if Dr. Crisler will work around it.

Any thoughts?

13,

You can get all your meds THROUGH Dr. John. He's got everything you will need, and will send it to you in the mail (with all of the information you need to submit to your insurance company). (I get my test cyp, HCG, etc. all through Dr. John. It's very easy and efficient.)

Mac

 

[JanSz]

13,

You can get all your meds THROUGH Dr. John. He's got everything you will need, and will send it to you in the mail (with all of the information you need to submit to your insurance company). (I get my test cyp, HCG, etc. all through Dr. John. It's very easy and efficient.)

Mac

Have you done any insurance filing?
If you did, and you went succesfuly thru whole cycle
I suggest that you post about your experience in as much detail as possible.

Wery few people, not me, have experience in filing insurance paperwork.
Reason that some doctors do not want to do it, is that it is not straight forward, lots of minefields on a way.
Lots of missing information and so on.

Please start new thread on this, if you plan on describing your experience.

 

[mr13percent]

13,

You can get all your meds THROUGH Dr. John. He's got everything you will need, and will send it to you in the mail (with all of the information you need to submit to your insurance company). (I get my test cyp, HCG, etc. all through Dr. John. It's very easy and efficient.)

Mac

thanks for the info, greatly appreciated

Finally going to see Dr. Crisler next Thursday, needless to say, I'm pretty excited about it.

 

[MacDonnell]

thanks for the info, greatly appreciated

Finally going to see Dr. Crisler next Thursday, needless to say, I'm pretty excited about it.

Cool. Good luck, man. Let us know how things work out.

 

[Trevor Miller]

I am a patient of Dr. Crisler's as well. He doesn't have the best bedside manner, but he won't jerk you around when it comes down to prescribing the meds you need.

Have all your questions ready when you go to see him, he seemed to sorta assume I had already done tons of research on my own (which I had...plus I am a Registered Nurse so he assumed I had more knowledge than the average Joe...again a correct assumption).

Go in with a notebook with all of your questions in it if you want to, that way you won't be pissed off that you paid $300 and forgot to ask something.

You'll walk away with a script for test cyp though, to be followed by HCG and arimidex if needed. Good luck!

 

[anyman]

Can you expound on this?

I am a patient of Dr. Crisler's as well. He doesn't have the best bedside manner, but he won't jerk you around when it comes down to prescribing the meds you need.

What do you mean and why do you say this?

Have all your questions ready when you go to see him, he seemed to sorta assume I had already done tons of research on my own (which I had...plus I am a Registered Nurse so he assumed I had more knowledge than the average Joe...again a correct assumption).

Go in with a notebook with all of your questions in it if you want to, that way you won't be pissed off that you paid $300 and forgot to ask something.

Good advice.

You'll walk away with a script for test cyp though, to be followed by HCG and arimidex if needed. Good luck!

Was he truly that quick and to the point?

 

[Trevor Miller]

Yeah I was there for less than an hour total. I know others here have spent as long as 2 hours with him though. Like I said, it's all about what you need and what questions you have.

 

[mr13percent]

well after my consultation with Dr.Crisler, he thinks I shouldn't have been put on HRT without first knowing what might be causing my low levels.

he thinks i might have thrown my body out of wack when I lost 70lbs ~1.5yrs ago. he thinks my leptin and hgh might not be right, so he wants me to do a 24hr piss test on April 8th to see where my true T levels are at and also scheduled to have blood work done.

for those of you who see Dr. Crisler, do any of you know how much it's going to cost to send the pee unit back to Oregon and to get the bloodwork done (through quest)

thanks

 

[Trevor Miller]

well after my consultation with Dr.Crisler, he thinks I shouldn't have been put on HRT without first knowing what might be causing my low levels.

he thinks i might have thrown my body out of wack when I lost 70lbs ~1.5yrs ago. he thinks my leptin and hgh might not be right, so he wants me to do a 24hr piss test on April 8th to see where my true T levels are at and also scheduled to have blood work done.

for those of you who see Dr. Crisler, do any of you know how much it's going to cost to send the pee unit back to Oregon and to get the bloodwork done (through quest)

thanks

Do you not have insurance? The piss-test won't be that expensive, but bloodwork done at quest (or anywhere else) can add up pretty quickly. I guess my case was a clearcut case of "Yep, you need some testosterone buddy, here ya go!"

 

[jinxie]

well after my consultation with Dr.Crisler, he thinks I shouldn't have been put on HRT without first knowing what might be causing my low levels.

he thinks i might have thrown my body out of wack when I lost 70lbs ~1.5yrs ago. he thinks my leptin and hgh might not be right, so he wants me to do a 24hr piss test on April 8th to see where my true T levels are at and also scheduled to have blood work done.

for those of you who see Dr. Crisler, do any of you know how much it's going to cost to send the pee unit back to Oregon and to get the bloodwork done (through quest)

thanks

The blood work should be covered. The urine test may not be. Depends on your insurance. If concerned, find out before hand. If it's not, there may be an alternative that Quest can do, that's covered. My insurer rejected a bunch of my mail away tests, but I fought back, and they covered it all. But my insurance is good (expensive PPO) and I happen to be an attorney.

Good luck.

 

[RugbyHooligan]

200 every 4 weeks... wow

I'm on 200 per week and I have been fine with that for about 20 weeks so far... no problems, feel great.

 

[JanSz]

200 every 4 weeks... wow

I'm on 200 per week and I have been fine with that for about 20 weeks so far... no problems, feel great.

Good to know that you feel great!!!

How are you keeping tabs on your e2?
.
.

 

[RugbyHooligan]

Jansz... I'm taking the liquidex like you suggested and it works great.

my levels are good and its stabilized.

 

[JanSz]

Jansz... I'm taking the liquidex like you suggested and it works great.

my levels are good and its stabilized.

How much are you taking?
Describe schedule and dose size.
How do you measure dose?
Describe how you have arrived at the correct dose.
State your weight, I think there may be (must be) relation between dose and body weight, (or possibly just the weight of fat in the body).

 

[RugbyHooligan]

Jansz...

1mg of Liquidex day of shots. I have some syringes that measure out every .2 ml, they are oral medicine syringes.

How did I arrive at the dose... trial and error my brother.

I went till I had consistent morning wood and then stuck with it and it has worked golden for me so far.

My libido is healthy, my mood is great. I have not had the problems associated with injections at all, so I am lucky...

I just hope my doc doesn't get scared to keep me on cypionate and decide to put me on androgel again... you never know what docs are going to do.

oh....

I am 6'3" 260. Muscular. I do Muay Thai, JuJitsu and boxing so I am in real good shape for my size.

 

[JanSz]

Jansz...

1mg of Liquidex day of shots. I have some syringes that measure out every .2 ml, they are oral medicine syringes.

How did I arrive at the dose... trial and error my brother.

I went till I had consistent morning wood and then stuck with it and it has worked golden for me so far.

My libido is healthy, my mood is great. I have not had the problems associated with injections at all, so I am lucky...

I just hope my doc doesn't get scared to keep me on cypionate and decide to put me on androgel again... you never know what docs are going to do.

oh....

I am 6'3" 260. Muscular. I do Muay Thai, JuJitsu and boxing so I am in real good shape for my size.

"1mg of Liquidex day of shots."


Ok, how many shots you do per week.
I just want to figure your weekly dose of Liquidex.

.
.

 

[jinxie]

"1mg of Liquidex day of shots."


Ok, how many shots you do per week.
I just want to figure your weekly dose of Liquidex.

.
.

Jan, you sure are a good sammaritan, always trying to help everyone. You are a good man.

 

[RugbyHooligan]

Jansz, I split my 200mg dose into twice weekly shots.

100mg on Tuesday AM, 100mg on Friday AM.

Tuesday and Friday I take 1mg Liquidex.