Got new bloodwork done with specialist..

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    Got new bloodwork done with specialist..


    Still waiting for the full results, but from what I was told, everything looks great, except for low testosterone. I've tried getting a lot more sleep, eating a lot more red meat, butter, tons of eggs, etc, etc and my testosterone is still right where it was months ago. Btw, it's not extremely low but it is pretty low, it's around 370 (range 241-827)

    But..my DHEA is no longer low, it's now normal or even high normal (was previously below normal) and my thyroid is perfect (she's a thyroid specialist).

    She said from the amount of LH + FSH present, I should have much more testosterone.

    I previously spoke to her about the options of HCG only treatment since I am worried about fertility down the road ( I wish to have kids someday), but now I am unsure if HCG will even do much for me at all, since my LH is not low whatsoever. If anyone who may be primary can tell me if HCG did them any good, that'd be appreciated.

    I'll post the results as soon as I get them this week. Basically she is sending me for an MRI of my pituitary, and if everything comes back fine, she's going to treat me for low testosterone. If my pituitary is fine, would this make me primary? Should I even bother with anything else (other tests, exams, etc) before starting treatment, if my pituitary looks to be completely fine?

    Looking for any suggestions, since I am leaning more towards getting on hcg + test asap. I don't feel horrible, but I know I could feel better. (ie: I still get morning wood and have sexual function, other than it takes me forever to finish, sometimes I never do). Energy could be better, libido could be better. Typical libido enhancers out there don't do much for me. PAL's Aspire 36 certainly removes the possibility of losing interest during sex, which can happen sometimes, especially when it becomes hard to climax.

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    Btw, I have to add that I used to get brain fog / fatigue, but I had attributed that to poor quality of sleep. Since giving myself adequate time to sleep, and still noticing this, I knew it was something else causing this and not totally sleep related.

    I started taking welbutrin a few weeks back and it has tremendously helped with the energy and mental alertness, probably because it acts as a stimulant though. Just a side note.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Btw, I have to add that I used to get brain fog / fatigue, but I had attributed that to poor quality of sleep. Since giving myself adequate time to sleep, and still noticing this, I knew it was something else causing this and not totally sleep related.

    I started taking welbutrin a few weeks back and it has tremendously helped with the energy and mental alertness, probably because it acts as a stimulant though. Just a side note.
    http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1257805

    Check your stomch acids, check zinc, magnesium.

    read second half of that article.
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Still waiting for the full results, but from what I was told, everything looks great, except for low testosterone. I've tried getting a lot more sleep, eating a lot more red meat, butter, tons of eggs, etc, etc and my testosterone is still right where it was months ago. Btw, it's not extremely low but it is pretty low, it's around 370 (range 241-827)

    But..my DHEA is no longer low, it's now normal or even high normal (was previously below normal) and my thyroid is perfect (she's a thyroid specialist).

    She said from the amount of LH + FSH present, I should have much more testosterone.

    I previously spoke to her about the options of HCG only treatment since I am worried about fertility down the road ( I wish to have kids someday), but now I am unsure if HCG will even do much for me at all, since my LH is not low whatsoever. If anyone who may be primary can tell me if HCG did them any good, that'd be appreciated.

    I'll post the results as soon as I get them this week. Basically she is sending me for an MRI of my pituitary, and if everything comes back fine, she's going to treat me for low testosterone. If my pituitary is fine, would this make me primary? Should I even bother with anything else (other tests, exams, etc) before starting treatment, if my pituitary looks to be completely fine?

    Looking for any suggestions, since I am leaning more towards getting on hcg + test asap. I don't feel horrible, but I know I could feel better. (ie: I still get morning wood and have sexual function, other than it takes me forever to finish, sometimes I never do). Energy could be better, libido could be better. Typical libido enhancers out there don't do much for me. PAL's Aspire 36 certainly removes the possibility of losing interest during sex, which can happen sometimes, especially when it becomes hard to climax.
    I don't believe hCG is indicated as a sole/primary treatment of primary hypogonadism because in primary, it's your testes that are to blame. They already receive a large enough signal from the pituitary, they just don't respond to it.

    You would most likely be prescribed testosterone replacement. Since that will cause you to then become LH suppressed, you could then add hCG as a supplemental/ancillary medication to make sure your testes continue to get (something that acts as) LH so they don't atrophy.

    And don't misunderstand, you won't be any less LH suppressed, you will simply be replacing LH in the same manner as replacing T.
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    Just got some initial results from my latest bloodwork.

    LH 5.6
    FSH 7.1

    Total T - 370
    Free T - 100

    E2 - 30

    DHEAS - 280 (~190-540)

    Not sure of the ranges on those labs yet, but it appears my LH + FSH are really high? Also, it looks as thought I am somewhat estrogen dominant? I wonder if dealing with my e2 will greatly elevate my test without the need for TRT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Just got some initial results from my latest bloodwork.

    LH 5.6
    FSH 7.1

    Total T - 370
    Free T - 100

    E2 - 30

    Not sure of the ranges on those labs yet, but it appears my LH + FSH are really high? Also, it looks as thought I am somewhat estrogen dominant? I wonder if dealing with my e2 will greatly elevate my test without the need for TRT.
    Typical reference ranges are (LH; 1.5 - 9.3 mIU/mL - FSH; 1.4 - 18.1), so I wouldn't say it's high if those are the units. Look pretty normal-ish.
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    clomid.. I think may help.. I am going to see if I can find the pubmed journal that shows how clomid can reverse hypogonadism.. I know clomid is not the cure all, but it is a very good drug.. I would use it before I did any hrt/trt, otherwise you are really going to be suppressed with test, lh and fsh.. that will make having children very difficult

    Clomiphene citrate effects on testosterone/estroge...[J Sex Med. 2005] - PubMed Result

    I found it. read below it is the abstract

    Use of clomiphene citrate to reverse premature and...[Fertil Steril. 2003] - PubMed Result
    Last edited by PumpDogg; 01-29-2008 at 05:00 PM. Reason: add info
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    Thanks. I'm also toying with the idea of low dose aromasin alongside Primordial's Sustain Alpha. It's definately going to have less sides than an actual serm, esp one like clomid. But clomid is definately something to talk to the doc about especially if it can be used to reverse hypogonadism in my case...longterm I would rather take something like sustain + AI though, but maybe that's not the best thing to do.
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    ttt... I added the info to my original post
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    Thanks. In my case though, I'm pretty sure this has been with me forever and my baseline has always been low. That link deals with steroid induced premature andropause. Would clomid still be a good option even if I've never done a.a.s? I have to read more on how it affects testosterone/estrogen ratio I guess.
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    btw, would clomid have less negative effect on libido than nolva would?
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    Gutter there are many here with much better understandings of HPTA etc..
    In primary hypogonadism the LH and/or FSH are usually elevated, whereas, in secondary hypogonadism, both are normal or low.

    I suffered from secondary.. everything was super low.. highest test reading I had before treatment was 201.. cant remember the lh and fsh levels, but they were low as well..

    After being on trt, i could not have children.. so with the clomid it normalized everything for me and worked great.. it also lined me out, where i did not have to go back on my regimen of trt ( I was given androgel and an antiestrogen)..So for me doing a round of clomid was the right choice...

    after reading more about primary and secondary clomid may not be the best choice for you.. I honestly dont know now.. Just being honest here..

    It worked very well for me in my circumstance and I have seen how it works well for those who have messed up there own system with drugs.. HCG and test may be better for you..

    This will put it back to the top though and hopefully you and I both can learn more on this from someone with greater knowledge
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumpDogg View Post
    Gutter there are many here with much better understandings of HPTA etc..
    In primary hypogonadism the LH and/or FSH are usually elevated, whereas, in secondary hypogonadism, both are normal or low.

    I suffered from secondary.. everything was super low.. highest test reading I had before treatment was 201.. cant remember the lh and fsh levels, but they were low as well..

    After being on trt, i could not have children.. so with the clomid it normalized everything for me and worked great.. it also lined me out, where i did not have to go back on my regimen of trt ( I was given androgel and an antiestrogen)..So for me doing a round of clomid was the right choice...
    PD, are you saying that you went on androgel + anti-e, then did a "cycle" (for lack of a better word) of clomid and got your test (and function) back to the point where you don't need meds?
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    I've asked this in another thread but should have asked here:

    I probably am going to suggest to my doc that I want to start clomid or newer serm therapy for a number of yrs before starting trt. Should I suggest an AI as well on top of the serm if my e2 is around 30? (total test = 370, free = 100)

    Also, are there any newer studies on 2nd or even 3rd generation serms out there? Those 1st gen serms are so unnecessarily toxic. Toremefine (fareston) looks really good, positive impact on lipids since it is a pro-estrogen within the liver.

    Aromasin looks to be a far superior AI over arimidex as well, since there will be no estrogen rebound if I decide to come off it. But it may possibly shut me down further if used long-term I am thinking?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    PD, are you saying that you went on androgel + anti-e, then did a "cycle" (for lack of a better word) of clomid and got your test (and function) back to the point where you don't need meds?
    First of all, clomid is not the safest drug. It can cause serious depression and even worse perm. eye damage.

    That being said, a lot of hypogonadal men have been able to do a basic PCT and restart their HPTA. Talk to Dr John, he's been able to help tons of men.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smc252 View Post
    First of all, clomid is not the safest drug. It can cause serious depression and even worse perm. eye damage.

    That being said, a lot of hypogonadal men have been able to do a basic post cycle therapy and restart their HPTA. Talk to Dr John, he's been able to help tons of men.
    Thanks, smc. Actually Dr. J is my doctor, I was just surprised to hear that clomid was that successful.

    That's two things that shocked me today. That and the guy who got his test up to 1100 using hCG alone.

    Goes to show you, no two people are alike in their response to meds.
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    Recently I've tried a short 'cycle' of Toremefine (fareston) + HCG on my own, about a few weeks before blood work. I stopped everything 1 week before, nothing changed on this blood work. Baseline was still the same. I don't think in my case a serm and/or hcg will help raise my test or restart me. Looks like this has been my baseline all along and a serm will only help ppl who are secondary.

    I was originally thinking maybe I didn't take the serm + hcg long enough, but I think I was falsely hoping for a 'restart' since I didn't do anything to shut myself down. This basically proves I am primary, especially with the new bloodwork.

    Until I go on a solid TRT program, I think I'm going to take topical pregnenalone + DHEA (PP Dermacrine), along with 380iu hcg eod, high dose trans-resveratrol (2grams+), PP's Toco-8 for increased LH sensitivity, as well as 10mg aromasin ed for around 6-8 weeks. Going to take me about that long to get my Dr's synced up.
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    This is going to be the Newb question of the year. I have blood work results, but what exactly am I looking for or monitoring? The only thing my doctor told me was that my Iron was within range (for the medication I'm on). Are we looking at lipids or RBC, WBC counts?
    NSCA - CSCS
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolcomX311 View Post
    This is going to be the Newb question of the year. I have blood work results, but what exactly am I looking for or monitoring? The only thing my doctor told me was that my Iron was within range (for the medication I'm on). Are we looking at lipids or RBC, WBC counts?
    Make sure that you have enough iron.
    The ranges a screwed as usual.

    Ferritin(20-380)ng/dL
    you should have

    LE’s Optimal Range: 50–150 ng/mL

    Start your own thread, post your whole blood test, name, value, range, units, name of laboratory
    do not post name of your doctor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post

    Until I go on a solid TRT program, I think I'm going to take topical pregnenalone + DHEA (PP Dermacrine), along with 380iu hcg eod, high dose trans-resveratrol (2grams+), PP's Toco-8 for increased LH sensitivity, as well as 10mg aromasin ed for around 6-8 weeks. Going to take me about that long to get my Dr's synced up.

    So I've been taking PP's Dermacrine (transdermal pregnenalone and dhea) 5-6pumps in the morning as well as 10mg Aromasin every night, and I have to say something is working so far. Every night since I've started, I'm having extremely sexual dreams, all night long and waking up quite aroused. It's definately having some sort of effect but still not what I'm looking for. Starting hcg eod as of tomorrow (for as long as I follow the above protocol) until I start t-shots + hcg.
  

  
 

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