Libido and hardness and what works

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    Libido and hardness and what works


    Woundering if anyone has heard of the hardness factor book/program? Also is there anything that actually works for increasing libido?

    I have lost all desire over the past few months and my test levels are above norm. I will be having other tests done such a E2 but since I am waiting I am interested in others trial and error when it comes to supplements.

    I know Aspine supposed to work like vigra and give you better hardness but does nothing for libido.

    Maca, I have used and most will say it increases volume of load but I havent had any experience with it working on libido or hardness.

    I have heard some mixed stuff on horny goat weed but that is all mixed. I am thinking of trying it but have only heard about a 50/50 mix. I guess I should know if it worked then everyone would be using it so I have my doubts.

    L-arginine have not heard much on this maybe 25/75 possitive

    Any thoughts on liquid viagra or liquid cialis as far as hardness and comparing them to the real deal. I guess hardness doent matter if I have little to no libido/desire. I mean p@rn barely does anything for me

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    Quote Originally Posted by corndog View Post
    Woundering if anyone has heard of the hardness factor book/program? Also is there anything that actually works for increasing libido?

    I have lost all desire over the past few months and my test levels are above norm. I will be having other tests done such a E2 but since I am waiting I am interested in others trial and error when it comes to supplements.

    I know Aspine supposed to work like vigra and give you better hardness but does nothing for libido.

    Maca, I have used and most will say it increases volume of load but I havent had any experience with it working on libido or hardness.

    I have heard some mixed stuff on horny goat weed but that is all mixed. I am thinking of trying it but have only heard about a 50/50 mix. I guess I should know if it worked then everyone would be using it so I have my doubts.

    L-arginine have not heard much on this maybe 25/75 possitive

    Any thoughts on liquid viagra or liquid cialis as far as hardness and comparing them to the real deal. I guess hardness doent matter if I have little to no libido/desire. I mean p@rn barely does anything for me
    Stop any supplements, minerals, vitamins, oils etc for a two monts or three.

    Do Genova Diagnostics

    NutrEval
    test.

    This test will do all kinds of checks,

    metabolic,
    nurotransmitters,
    fatty acids,
    minerals,
    Anti-oxidants
    Essential co-factors
    Amino acids
    vitamins,
    toxics

    you name it it have it.

    Very cost efective and
    talk back straight about corrective action,
    with a list of supplements and daily dose
    on a bottom line.

    (plus all the usual discussion if one cares about).
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    The NutrEval looks like a great test, but realistically, I don't think most people can afford to spend over $1000 at once on testing. I know I wish I could...if they made a payment plan lol. Not that I don't make a lot of money, it's just a lot to fork out at once for a test, and general health insurance won't cover it.
    •   
       

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    For rigidity, 9 mg yohimbine alkaloids work wonders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    The NutrEval looks like a great test, but realistically, I don't think most people can afford to spend over $1000 at once on testing. I know I wish I could...if they made a payment plan lol. Not that I don't make a lot of money, it's just a lot to fork out at once for a test, and general health insurance won't cover it.
    Are you sure that insurance will not cover those tests?

    I do not know, I am still waiting, but Genova did send the paperwork out.

    They would not do that if they knew before hand that there is no chance for any money back.

    So far I did not get any bills from them, asking for money.

    My first test at Genova I did oct1/07 (IIRC).
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    Do they just require a script from your pcp in order to do the tests, then they will be completely covered as long as your PCP is in your general network?

    My PCP does not use that lab for testing, so I assumed I could only use specific labs. My endo also only uses 2 labs for testing and they no longer use Quest so I cannot go to them either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Do they just require a script from your pcp in order to do the tests, then they will be completely covered as long as your PCP is in your general network?

    My PCP does not use that lab for testing, so I assumed I could only use specific labs. My endo also only uses 2 labs for testing and they no longer use Quest so I cannot go to them either.
    Yes, Genova (in USA) deals only with doctors.
    It gives the a training and charts to use when filling their request for testing.
    Those charts contain the suspected diagnostic codes that are apropriate for each test.

    In UK one can buy those tests using credit card.

    Time to change endo and GP.
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    what supps are u taking loss of libido is usally produced by a low dopamine level in the brain which is caused from varios supp and res drugs ive heard people being prescribed adderall to increase sex drive while on ssris cuz of the low dopamine levels caused by those ssri meds
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmakmitch View Post
    what supps are u taking loss of libido is usally produced by a low dopamine level in the brain which is caused from varios supp and res drugs ive heard people being prescribed adderall to increase sex drive while on ssris cuz of the low dopamine levels caused by those ssri meds
    Test for that is included in NutrEval.

    among other 149 important checks.
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    I haven't had libido since I was 25. The only thing that ever worked for me was transdermal 4ad.
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    Nothing in general has happened to cause the issue. But the longer the problem lasts the more it does make me depressed and stressed about it. So its kind of a catch 22 issue.

    No known cause but the more it happens the more it bothers me and becomes a stresser and deprsion.

    Having e levels done this week. Trying to improve it with foods/vegi's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corndog View Post
    Nothing in general has happened to cause the issue. But the longer the problem lasts the more it does make me depressed and stressed about it. So its kind of a catch 22 issue.

    No known cause but the more it happens the more it bothers me and becomes a stresser and deprsion.

    Having e levels done this week. Trying to improve it with foods/vegi's.
    Make sure you do your tests at Quest, blood drawn at Quest.
    Blood drawn at day of the shot, time of the shot before shot.

    It would help great deal to be on EOD schedule with
    (T + AI) and (380iu HCG) shots

    To check your T & E2 levels do

    Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
    Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)

    goal

    FreeE2(0.45 -0.6)
    BAT~575
    .
    .
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    ALA/ALC literally cured me of ED, i no longer need aspire/cialis to have sex; id 1600mg ALA and 5000mg ALC daily
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Stop any supplements, minerals, vitamins, oils etc for a two monts or three.

    Do Genova Diagnostics

    NutrEval
    test.

    This test will do all kinds of checks,

    metabolic,
    nurotransmitters,
    fatty acids,
    minerals,
    Anti-oxidants
    Essential co-factors
    Amino acids
    vitamins,
    toxics

    you name it it have it.

    Very cost efective and
    talk back straight about corrective action,
    with a list of supplements and daily dose
    on a bottom line.

    (plus all the usual discussion if one cares about).
    lol Jan, I think you should make your cut-paste "go do bloodwork, damnit!" post into a sticky so everyone does it before posting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by engival View Post
    ALA/ALC literally cured me of ED, i no longer need aspire/cialis to have sex; id 1600mg ALA and 5000mg ALC daily
    Funny you should mention aspire, I heard wonders about it and just ordered some. I hear you gotta be careful for headaches, so I'm going to try plenty of water and aspirin beforehand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by engival View Post
    ALA/ALC literally cured me of ED, i no longer need aspire/cialis to have sex; id 1600mg ALA and 5000mg ALC daily
    Sorry for the newbie question, but what are ALA and ALC? Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by b4554 View Post
    Sorry for the newbie question, but what are ALA and ALC? Thanks

    Alpha Lipoic Acid and Acety L-Carnitine, if I spelled them right that is. I have read Propionyl-L-Carnitine is supposed to work better, but have not tried it myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by morigu View Post
    Alpha Lipoic Acid and Acety L-Carnitine, if I spelled them right that is. I have read Propionyl-L-Carnitine is supposed to work better, but have not tried it myself.
    Is ALA the stuff that's sometimes in an NO supplement that can make you "tingly"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    Is ALA the stuff that's sometimes in an NO supplement that can make you "tingly"?
    Not sure on that one, I know it helps regulate blood sugar levels. One curious side effect I've noticed tho is it makes my piss stink pretty bad.
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    Correct me if I'm wrong but he was talking about sexual desire not the ability to get a hardon.
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    Lets get to the basics. E2 if too high will kill libido, even if TRT has your TT at 1000. E2 does not need be above normal range. E2 in the upper 30's can be a big problem and create all of the typical symptoms of hypogonadism, while your T is high. Get E2 into the lower 20's and libido can come back very strong. If E2 is creating problems, taking all of the supplements will not be very useful.
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    I agree with controlling your e2, it's the first thing to look at.

    Maybe add some l-histidine into the mix as well, it converts into l-histamine which plays an important role in sensitivity. I haven't tried it myself but I've read all about it here. You can get the bulk powder online. Try searching AM for info on it too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSman View Post
    Lets get to the basics. E2 if too high will kill libido, even if TRT has your TT at 1000. E2 does not need be above normal range. E2 in the upper 30's can be a big problem and create all of the typical symptoms of hypogonadism, while your T is high. Get E2 into the lower 20's and libido can come back very strong. If E2 is creating problems, taking all of the supplements will not be very useful.
    When doing E2 testing, we want to have "ultrasensitive" Estrodial testing.

    There is still a range, and it is uncertain where we want to be,
    usually 20-30 is a good place.

    Quest Diagnostics (rather recently) came up with

    Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
    http://cas2.questdiagnostics.com/scr...&tmradio=title


    Dr John says that it is the only good test.

    Now the problem is that this test have as a range

    (=<29)

    so really, anything below or equal 29 is acceptable.
    15 is good, 10 is good, 5 is good.

    For me that is confusing.

    On my last blood test I asked for

    Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)

    This test also gives Estrodial (=<29)

    but also

    Estradiol, Free (Males (Adult): < or = 0.45 pg/mL )

    because my results were

    E2=29
    FreeE2=0.75

    and I felt rather good at the time, I increased my Liquidex tiny bit.

    I think that I should be happy if my

    FreeE2=(0.45 - 0.6)

    additionally Quest posted a note about FreeE2 being a better indicator than E2.

    All this boils down to SHBG value that one have to deal with,
    and how much E2 is bound to SHBG.
    Similarl deal as with FreeT.

    http://cas2.questdiagnostics.com/scr...&tmradio=title
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    Lowering E2 should lower SHBG and increase FT. It might be a better target to increase AI until one senses some negative effects then back off. <29 is a lab norm, not a statement of a optimal value. If one's dosing is symptom/libido driven, then it does not matter what test is used. If one switches tests, then you do not know if a number change is from the changed test, changed dose or one's own changing dose response. I have had to change anastrozole from 1mg/wk to 1.75 to maintain lower 20's [0-53 range, labcorp serum E2]. With different lab ranges used by others, recommendations and lessons learned do not transferable.

    I tried, and others as well, an AI bump. Take a larger one time increased dose and observe. Note what was better or worse, and the time line. With that in memory, adjust the dose. In my experience, running steady state with multiple injections per week of hCG and T, with anastrozole EOD, one can benefit from a isolated bump in anastrozole. It is unnatural for the body to do much of anything steady state. One time, a bump created some good effects that were long lasting. I added a 1mg bump to my EOD routine. This can be too much for some guys. Something else one needs to learn about how they respond individually. One guy did a 1mg bump and felt down for most of a week. Might be better to try a smaller bump at first, perhaps .5mg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSman View Post
    Lowering E2 should lower SHBG and increase FT. It might be a better target to increase AI until one senses some negative effects then back off. <29 is a lab norm, not a statement of a optimal value. If one's dosing is symptom/libido driven, then it does not matter what test is used. If one switches tests, then you do not know if a number change is from the changed test, changed dose or one's own changing dose response. I have had to change anastrozole from 1mg/wk to 1.75 to maintain lower 20's [0-53 range, labcorp serum E2]. With different lab ranges used by others, recommendations and lessons learned do not transferable.

    I tried, and others as well, an AI bump. Take a larger one time increased dose and observe. Note what was better or worse, and the time line. With that in memory, adjust the dose. In my experience, running steady state with multiple injections per week of hCG and T, with anastrozole EOD, one can benefit from a isolated bump in anastrozole. It is unnatural for the body to do much of anything steady state. One time, a bump created some good effects that were long lasting. I added a 1mg bump to my EOD routine. This can be too much for some guys. Something else one needs to learn about how they respond individually. One guy did a 1mg bump and felt down for most of a week. Might be better to try a smaller bump at first, perhaps .5mg.
    "running steady state with multiple injections per week of hCG and T, with anastrozole EOD"

    Except you and me there is nobody here who does daily injections.

    They insist on using large needles and then argue a lot.
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    corndog,

    check for "Hemocromatosis"
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSman View Post
    Lets get to the basics. E2 if too high will kill libido, even if TRT has your TT at 1000. E2 does not need be above normal range. E2 in the upper 30's can be a big problem and create all of the typical symptoms of hypogonadism, while your T is high. Get E2 into the lower 20's and libido can come back very strong. If E2 is creating problems, taking all of the supplements will not be very useful.
    Then how do you lower e2 levels? What are the best supps to take?
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    Quote Originally Posted by engival View Post
    ALA/ALC literally cured me of ED, i no longer need aspire/cialis to have sex; id 1600mg ALA and 5000mg ALC daily
    That is a LOT of ALCAR to be taking, and I mean, holy ****! That's about 5x as much as most people are taking on imminst (a board that specialises in nootropics).

    You do realize that ALCAR puts your mitochondria in overdrive, right? Despite all the good it does, it ramps up free radical production exponentially. It's good that you're taking it with ALA as suggested (I'd switch to R-ALA if I were you though), but this is still a lot to be taking daily.

    My .02$...
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifter2005 View Post
    Then how do you lower e2 levels? What are the best supps to take?
    Like I said, supplements are not very useful. Many look good from research done on a lab bench or with the active chemical injected IV. But for many, they simply cannot absorb many of these things through the gut.

    For those on TRT, they need to get their doctors to prescribe Arimidex. The typical starting dose of 1mg/week can be very effective. The chemical name is anastrozole. There are no generics at the pharmacy and it costs $9 for each 1mg tablet. But one can easily spend more than that for supplements that will not work as well.

    Anastrozole does absolutely work. Doctors who know what they are doing do prescribe it. Most doctors who don't know much about how TRT is done right will not prescribe and many will not even test for E2, even some endos.

    T converts to E via a process of aromatization, via the aromatase enzyme; found primarily in fat tissue and the testes. If your testes are shut down from the TRT, no E2 is created there. But if one uses hCG to maintain the testes, then E2 will be created there. The drugs that prevent this are aromatase inhibitors [AI]. Another AI is letrozole. 'Letro' is harsh and its dose response is too variable from one person to another.

    If E2 is too low, one looses libido, energy and gets brain fog, just like being hypogonadic. So you need to get it right. E2 in the lower 20s [0-53pg/ml] is a good place to be. With closer to 20 widely thought to be better.

    With E2 in the lower twenties, one can feel way better by many measures. And I expect that most then also have 'drier' emotions, more analytical and a greater degree of male emotional detachment. But everyone reactions are quite different.

    A few are over-responders to adex and perhaps all AIs in general and those will be ok using 1/4 to 1/8th of the expected dose. They try 1mg/wk, feel a brief improvement then hit the dumps. They have to hunt and peck to get it right. If ones E2 is in the lower digits, then lab numbers do not tell you anything other than you are using too much. How you feel the is best dose indicator. Once things feel decent, then lab numbers can guide dose refinements. Libido is your guide. It is the fastest reacting thing that you can feel. Libido seems to be one of the best indicators of ones general state of well-being.
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    That is a LOT of ALCAR to be taking, and I mean, holy ****! That's about 5x as much as most people are taking on imminst (a board that specialises in nootropics).

    You do realize that ALCAR puts your mitochondria in overdrive, right? Despite all the good it does, it ramps up free radical production exponentially. It's good that you're taking it with ALA as suggested (I'd switch to R-ALA if I were you though), but this is still a lot to be taking daily.

    My .02$...
    can you show me some articles about this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by engival View Post
    can you show me some articles about this?
    There are many. Just go on the imminst forums (google it) and type ALCAR in the search engine. You'll find all the info you need.
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    Iodine. I use Atomidine.



    I can't say why, but I can say that a few drops of this in water and you'll be a-okay (in more places than downstairs). As a bonus, I discovered that it will remove recent Silver Nitrate argyria from your skin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrownedOne View Post
    Iodine. I use Atomidine.



    I can't say why, but I can say that a few drops of this in water and you'll be a-okay (in more places than downstairs). As a bonus, I discovered that it will remove recent Silver Nitrate argyria from your skin.
    Have you researched this? I guess most of the iodine solutions on the market have chlorine. It is iodine-trichloride, which is one iodine for every 3 chlorine. Chlorine is not something you want to put to much of in your system. Just from the search I just did, most of the iodine solutions deviate from Cayce's original criteria for the oral solutions. The one that doesn't is called Rejuvedine. However, I'm not educated on such matters and it could be just a typical internet sales pitch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegking View Post
    Have you researched this? I guess most of the iodine solutions on the market have chlorine. It is iodine-trichloride, which is one iodine for every 3 chlorine. Chlorine is not something you want to put to much of in your system. Just from the search I just did, most of the iodine solutions deviate from Cayce's original criteria for the oral solutions. The one that doesn't is called Rejuvedine. However, I'm not educated on such matters and it could be just a typical internet sales pitch.
    There was a recent trend over at Meso RX (Shippen recommended this?) of taking massive amounts of iodine in the form of Iodoral. 2 days on that **** and it had me feeling worse than ever. Not to mention this stuff is toxic in high doses. The japanese that get these amounts get it naturally from their diet, and their bodies have probably adapted over the centuries to the same diet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrownedOne View Post
    Iodine. I use Atomidine.



    I can't say why, but I can say that a few drops of this in water and you'll be a-okay (in more places than downstairs). As a bonus, I discovered that it will remove recent Silver Nitrate argyria from your skin.
    This is the brand of iodnie I use. 5 to 10 drops a day. It's as cheap as Iodoral. I actually like the taste.
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    Also, if you're at all acne-prone, taking iodine is like throwing gasoline on a fire.

    srczm
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    Acne, is that right? My acne has gotten way worse as of late. I do know you need to take probiotics when taking iodine, as it stips your gut of flora.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    This is the brand of iodnie I use. 5 to 10 drops a day. It's as cheap as Iodoral. I actually like the taste.
    Have you noticed any positive effects?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegking View Post
    Have you noticed any positive effects?
    I think it's reduced the amount of thyroid I need. But I've made so many changes at once, it's tough to tease it out. But given my condition, it was not the time to try adding one change at a time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    The NutrEval looks like a great test, but realistically, I don't think most people can afford to spend over $1000 at once on testing. I know I wish I could...if they made a payment plan lol. Not that I don't make a lot of money, it's just a lot to fork out at once for a test, and general health insurance won't cover it.
    Totally. I make over 60k/year as a nurse and if I had to actually pay for my labwork it would bury me. I get my labwork done for FREE at my hospital......one of the few totally awesome benefits I get as a nurse at this hospital.
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