Why does test gel increase DHT?

  1. Why does test gel increase DHT?


    Why does test gel increase DHT instead of total T? Frustrating. This is happening to me, and I was wondering if there's anything to change it, like supp'ing evening primrose or something that blocks DHT. Also, does the gel application site matter?

    I know I could get T shots, but it's a last resort for me because I don't want to shut down completely. Going to try HCG first. Thanks.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by LeanGuy View Post
    Why does test gel increase DHT instead of total T? Frustrating. This is happening to me, and I was wondering if there's anything to change it, like supp'ing evening primrose or something that blocks DHT. Also, does the gel application site matter?

    I know I could get T shots, but it's a last resort for me because I don't want to shut down completely. Going to try HCG first. Thanks.
    Before addressing the first part of your question, whether you use test gel or injections, you are going to shut down completely. hCG will mimic LH and keep your testes up to form, but even then your LH is suppressed. So suppressed even becomes a relative concept.

    My understanding is that creams/gels convert at a higher rate to DHT because they interact with 5AR in the skin. If you apply it to the skin of your genitals (scrotum, specifically), I understand you will get an even higher conversion to DHT. But AFAIK, other parts of the body should be equally good in that regard.

    The only other question becomes "how much" insofar as quantity of gel. It is believed that the smaller the area, the less interaction with 5 AR and the less the conversion to DHT. Therefore, if you find yourself needing larger quantities of test (say 100 mg od), you would want to get a 10% preparation, which would mean 1 ml cream to rub in.

    If you had to use, say, Androgel for same, you would need two satchels or 10 ml of gel. Lots more exposure to the skin (and 5AR) with that much gel.

    Finasteride is a 5AR inhibitor, will decrease DHT, but many view it as an incredibly unsafe drug.

  3. Rick, thanks for the info. I am currently trying 50mg compounded sublingual trouches. I'll know how well it works at my next blood test. Anyone have success with sublinguals?
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by LeanGuy View Post
    Rick, thanks for the info. I am currently trying 50mg compounded sublingual trouches. I'll know how well it works at my next blood test. Anyone have success with sublinguals?
    I don't know anybody that is on them as a sole form of TRT. I do know Dr. john has begun using them supplementally (i.e. for patients who generally do well, but still have problems with libido), but is against using them alone.

  5. Pregnelone cream and even (i think) hcg can lower DHT. Esp. preg. cream. WHy are you so concerned, DHT is not the bad guy. It can be hard on the hair, but there are things to deal with that. DHT as dr. john says, has to do with "all things male".

    look for preg cream. my dht was low so i have no issues.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Scottyo View Post
    Pregnelone cream and even (i think) hcg can lower DHT. Esp. preg. cream. WHy are you so concerned, DHT is not the bad guy. It can be hard on the hair, but there are things to deal with that. DHT as dr. john says, has to do with "all things male".

    look for preg cream. my dht was low so i have no issues.
    Pregnenolone can convert to progesterone, which opposes DHT. Much safer to do that than to use progesterone.

    I have never heard that hCG lowers DHT, but it does restore some endogenous pregnenolone, so maybe that's a possibility.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by LeanGuy View Post
    Why does test gel increase DHT instead of total T?
    Everybody reacts differently. Some rub on one pack of androgel and they're GTG.

    I had the same reaction. My total T went DOWN, and my already high end DHT went to twice top of range.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    I had the same reaction. My total T went DOWN, and my already high end DHT went to twice top of range.
    That's exactly what happened to me. I am going to also try rubbing the gel into a smaller area. Before, I was rubbing it onto large areas like lotion, I didn't know any better.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by LeanGuy View Post
    That's exactly what happened to me. I am going to also try rubbing the gel into a smaller area. Before, I was rubbing it onto large areas like lotion, I didn't know any better.
    Good luck, I hope that helps. All in all, FYI, the shots feel better for me.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by LeanGuy View Post
    Rick, thanks for the info. I am currently trying 50mg compounded sublingual trouches. I'll know how well it works at my next blood test. Anyone have success with sublinguals?

    The half-life is so short that you will problably have to use three or more per day.
    Last edited by cpeil2; 01-16-2008 at 09:54 AM. Reason: correct typo

  11. Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    I had the same reaction. My total T went DOWN, and my already high end DHT went to twice top of range.
    Have you had any increase in libido parallel to the increase in DHT?

    By the way, is there such thing as a 5-alpha reductase agonist?

  12. This thread is over two yrs old.

    I've never heard of an agonist. My DHT was low on shots, I switched to hcg + TGel and now I have high test and high DHT. DHT conversion happens best on the skin, that's why gels are better for this. Also, to boost DHT quickly, apply a bit of the gel to your gonads a couple times per week.
  13. DHT gel


    Where can I order DHT gel? Is it hard to get it from the USA if you live abroad?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by HenryScriba View Post

    By the way, is there such thing as a 5-alpha reductase agonist?
    No. Just take proviron, which is essentially oral DHT.

  15. Proviron has different properties than straight DHT. It's a derivative, and plus - proviron is not easy to come by nor is it legal in the US.

    T-cream or gel on the nuts is a direct way to increase DHT.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Proviron has different properties than straight DHT. It's a derivative, and plus - proviron is not easy to come by nor is it legal in the US.

    T-cream or gel on the nuts is a direct way to increase DHT.
    Agreed, though I'm pretty sure that the only real difference is that is milder and doesn't bind to the AR as tightly, being a 1-methyl. But we already covered the applying gel to the nuts thing. I suppose you could also try to find injectable DHT...

  17. Haven't heard of injectable DHT, but you can get straight DHT cream

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Haven't heard of injectable DHT, but you can get straight DHT cream
    http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/4/1462

    "DHT has been formulated as an injectable DHT heptanoate (enanthate) in experimental studies".

    It's been done, but apparently it has never been marketed for some reason.
    I thought I recalled seeing it somewhere, but I may have just been having nightmares
  

  
 

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