01-05-2008 09:44 PM
We all know the drill. They cant explain it so they try to convince you to take anti depressants.
After a few years of trying, most of my numbers are about where they should be. Except my TSH is very high at 4.0 or so (range .35 to 5.5) so my body is screaming for energy.
Also...my IGF-1 is just a bit high.
So why do I feel so lousy with mostly normal numbers?
The DRs are now suggesting anti depressants which I am completely against.
I have not heard one person say they work.
I am generally ok emotionally but feel frustrated because I do not feel well.
01-05-2008 09:59 PM
You know we're going to ask for your numbers. Can you post them? Have you tested Prolactin? (High TSH can cause hyperprolactinemia -- just a wild guess)
Originally Posted by spinn
Also, while there's lots of knowledge here on T -- it's not the oly reason why you might be feeling bad. Can you be more specific on what your symptoms are?
01-05-2008 10:10 PM
All the good numbers in upper third of range.....estradiol is 20, chlesterol is high, but not awful.
No I have not had prolactin tested.
Symptoms include insomnia, extreme fatigue, inability to get any real rest no matter how long I am in bed, cloudy thinking, short term memory issues (I am 41), muscle and joint soreness.
I really dont want to get too far into numbers. Lets just assume that the basics...ie T t4 t3 are within what we consider good.
01-05-2008 10:32 PM
I do appreciate any and all responses....but for this thread I am wondering if anti depressants have helped..........anyone.
For the rest I can start other threads or read others.
01-06-2008 12:40 AM
There are neurotransmitter tests you can do (urine tests).
I've seen Janz post about them before. I think they can give you a clear picture of what your body is producing and if you're low in certain areas.
I think anti-depressants have their place when needed. I personally don't think there's harm in trying it, you can always stop them if you feel there is no benefit or if you feel any side effect is not worth the results you are getting. Welbutrin is a mild one that works well (it's more than just an SSRI, works on norepinephrin as well) and it has little sides.
I have similar symptoms as you (mainly with insomnia and not able to get proper rest, even when giving myself enough time for rest). I am going to see a sleep specialist to get tested for sleep apnea or any other sleep disorders. I fall asleep easily, but wake up many times through the night..each time I am able to fall back asleep easily but I just keep waking up over and over.
01-06-2008 09:13 AM
Originally Posted by spinn
Well I'll be the one person who tells you they work IF you are clinically depressed.
Antidepressants can be a lifesaver in certain situations. In my case one of my 3 daughters suffers from an incurable, life shortening lung disease (cystic fibrosis). I believe I was clinically depressed (a tightly defined diagnosis) since the day she was diagnosed at the age of 6 (she's 20 now). Finally I saw a pyschiatrist about 8 years ago and he prescribed Zoloft. Even at a small dose of 50mg ED it was a life saver for me.
Remember, antidepressants help the clinically depressed and shouldn't be taken for anything less. (I would literally cry every other day. It was horrible). You will DEFINETLY know it if you are "clinically" depressed. My advice: google the term "clinical depression" and see how many symptoms you have. That should tell you.
Most here are aware that taking SSRI's long term has it's own problems. A reduction in T apparently is one of them. I wasn't aware of this until I began my own HRT program 4 months ago and saw a Dr. (well known here) who explained it to me.
In my situation, between the Dr. raising my T and prescribing topical selegiline I was able to cut my Zoloft dose to 25mg a day and I feel better than I have in a long time.
Everyones situation is different. In my case, I may take a small dose SSRI the rest of my life. But, with the help of a good doctor, I've looked at all the other angles and made corrections there as well.
SSRI's do help if you need them, but be aware of the risk/benefit.
Hope this helps.
01-06-2008 10:44 AM
"Clinical depression (also called major-depressive disorder or unipolar depression) is a common psychiatric disorder, characterized by a persistent lowering of mood, loss of interest in usual activities and diminished ability to experience pleasure."
Thats the thing, I want to do things. I am frustrated by the fact that I want to do things after work and the gym during the week but am too tired.
I look forward to working out after work, as hard as it can be when you are tired and sore.
This is a stab in the dark on their part. My interest in being active has never been stronger.
01-06-2008 10:53 AM
Originally Posted by spinn
When I am tired but wish to work, lifting, dancing, I take 5 sometimes 10mg Cortef.
Careful when taking late afternoon, and skipping planned exercise. Causes insomnia.
Insomnia does not happen when exercised as planned.
Normally my sleep is ok, but disturbed by 4x/night trips to bathroom.
01-06-2008 12:13 PM
01-06-2008 02:26 PM
You said t3 and t4 are within 'normal' range. First, are these FREE t3 and Free T4 values...if not, there pretty much worthless. IF they are, what are the values exactly....are they at the top of normal or just within normal range?
Thyroid and psychological problems go hand in hand. Id look to EVERYTHING physical, then turn to REAL psychological (aka, a good psychologist or psychotherapist....preferably someone who uses mixed-methods with an eye for at least some depth psychology). If that all doesnt work, THEN turn to a psychiatrist. Dont let a regular doc prescribe antidepressents. Just because they can doesnt mean they should.
01-06-2008 03:17 PM
my free t3 is 3.2 range 2.3-4.2
free t4 is 1.19 range .61-1.76
I am taking 25 mcgs levoxyl and 15 mg armour in morning and 15 mg armour alone at lunch. I just started that last week. Before that was taking 25 mcgs levoxyl in morning and another 25 mcgs at lunch. That is what I was doing when the tests were done.
I do wish the numbers were a bit higher but they are not alarming.
My thyroid DR is excellent and quoted on many of these boards.
Good point about not letting regular DR prescribe them.
Today is a good example.....I just went to lunch in city, crashed after lunch and was forced to come home. I really want to to something today but am resting for a couple hours to get energy back.
01-06-2008 04:15 PM
01-06-2008 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by spinn
You have less than half of the freeT3 that you need
do not even think of going to any psychiatrist until you are close to upper range with your freeT3 for at lest six months to a year.
You may have to support your adrenals, that is still another story.
Stay away from psychiatrists.
Do not let anybody sweet talk you into them.
Whatewer you do, keep these three numbers in the right place (for long time):
FreeT3 close to the top (adrenals allowing)
FreeE2 (0.45 - 0.6)
When you get there, you will get a break, you will then be able to start thinking of next steps.
01-06-2008 07:40 PM
Isn't that high TSH a clue to check for thyroid antibodies and other thyroid related issues?
01-06-2008 07:49 PM
Mt adrenals are exhausted as well and I am supporting them with several supplements.
So you are saying my free t3 should be at the high of the range. How will I know if my exhausted adrenals can not handle this much t3?
I do not have any cortisol results, my DR can tell by clinical analysis they are not working well.
01-06-2008 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by wildfox
I have not been tested for those, what is the exact name of the test?
01-07-2008 10:45 AM
Not really. Most GP's will precribe anti-depressants as a first line treatment. If your feeling the 'blues' then try one of these. Even good GP's will do it because they simply want you to feel better, and since they cant think of anything else that might be obviously causing the problem, then they prescribe.
Originally Posted by Diancecht
At least a psychiatrist, or at least a good one, knows a better interaction between psyche/physi, and can see what would be a better approach. Further, a psychiatrist will AT LEAST have significant clinical experience in prescribing antidepressant medication. And HERE is where your analogy breaks down. Because as most of us here know, most endocrinologists have VERY LIMITED experience prescribing hormones, or hormone analogs. How many endo's do you know that refuse to prescribe armour, HCG, HGH, HMG, or even non-androgel based t-gel. Most endo's specialize in things like metabolism and diabetes etc. So, they have MUCH LESS experience and competence than Dr's like Dr. Crisler, Shippen, Mariano, etc. My advice is find someone who has CLINICAL experience using the meds that are going to be used....often, this is psychiatrists, hell thats there job.
01-07-2008 10:56 AM
Originally Posted by spinn
You probably need some stronger adrenal support, like HC (cortef). Id also wonder why your thyroid hormones are only mid-range. At the level they are, Janz is right...stay far away from anti-depressents and docs who will prescribe. Lets fix things we know about that have causal relations to tiredness/depression before we enter the black box of anti-d's.
01-07-2008 11:47 AM
01-07-2008 12:22 PM
Spinn - I have been fighting depression for over 18 years. I have tried almost every med, combo's of meds. 1st depression meds work but Dr. push them at anything and everything. I would speak directly with your Dr. and state your symptoms/feelings and tell dr. about your blood test low test and hormone issues before he puts you on head meds.
I truly beleive that hormone levels cause a hugh amount of depression and had disorders. I think these should be addressed then move on from there. If you feel really depressed dont wait for hormone levels to get to optimal levels.
If you are feeling realy depressed then I wouldnt wait. My sister comitted suicide because of she stopped taking meds and she needed to get on them but dr. wouldnt scribe her some till she came in.
Your symptoms dont mean dep. Almost everyone goes thru periods with similar feelings. Life can weigh you down and your body just falls apart. include insomnia, extreme fatigue, inability to get any real rest no matter how long I am in bed, cloudy thinking, short term memory issues (I am 41), muscle and joint soreness. - I THINK THESE ARE THYROID ISSUES NOT DEP.
Last - If you do decide to try a anti dep. make sure to ask which one has least side effects. Especially sexual sides. Zoloft, Prozac Paxil will make you lose all sexual desire and even cause ED. If you need any other help please feel free to contact me.
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