T Cyp dosing: Is .8mL of 100mg/mL the same as .4mL of 200mg/mL? (more)

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    T Cyp dosing: Is .8mL of 100mg/mL the same as .4mL of 200mg/mL? (more)


    Yes, the math works out, but what about the efficacy? Is a weaker dose, administered in a higher quantity, absorbed the same and as effective as, a stronger dose in a lesser quantity?

    I ask I has had some older, but still well within the expiration date 100mg/mL T which I tried and 2 days later now feel unusually tired. Usually, I would do .4mL of 200mg/mL T, but I thought "Might as well use the weaker and slightly older stuff first" and did .8mL of the 100mg/mL stuff.

    This whole process is something of a PITA. Wish I could find something that worked and just stick with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    Yes, the math works out, but what about the efficacy? Is a weaker dose, administered in a higher quantity, absorbed the same and as effective as, a stronger dose in a lesser quantity?

    I ask I has had some older, but still well within the expiration date 100mg/mL T which I tried and 2 days later now feel unusually tired. Usually, I would do .4mL of 200mg/mL T, but I thought "Might as well use the weaker and slightly older stuff first" and did .8mL of the 100mg/mL stuff.

    This whole process is something of a PITA. Wish I could find something that worked and just stick with it.


    You don't need to do it.

    I was disappointed in every type of HRT I tried, and I was under the care of one of the best.

    No matter what it was, I always came to the conclusion that I felt better "natural." Going natural has its price, but its the risk/benefit calculus that works best for me, at this point in my life.
    Last edited by cpeil2; 12-29-2007 at 09:15 PM. Reason: correct typo
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    I don't quite follow... Are you advocating doing nothing?


    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    You don't need to do it.

    I was disappointed in every type of HRT I tried, and I was under the care of one of the best.

    No matter what it was, I always came to the conclusion that I felt better "natural." Going natural has its price, but its the risk/benefit calculus that works best for me, at this point in my life.
    Nobody is more of proponent than natural as the best way to go then me, but what about situations where T is just too low? What about the fact that low T has been implicated in a host of health ills, from heart issues to diabetes? I was on the way to being insulin resistant even though I exercise and I eat well.

    Take for example someone like me who was lucky to top 200 before even considering TRT? I don't know what happened, but about 1- 1/2 yrs ago I started to feel "off" and noticed a sudden great difficulty in getting erections. I was also tired and increasingly irritable. Happened after my primary care Dr suggested Welbutrin. Tried it and after 2-3 weeks felt something change. All of sudden I couldn't perform like I used to. I was floored to see my T was only 200 after I had it tested on a hunch. My quest started then and there.

    What options do I have? Suffer and then slowly fade away? Or, do I seek to restore lost balance and hope for the best? I despise the reliance on this crap, but I see other options ranging from "none" to "Buttf*cked".
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    Nobody is more of proponent than natural as the best way to go then me, but what about situations where T is just too low? What about the fact that low T has been implicated in a host of health ills, from heart issues to diabetes? I was on the way to being insulin resistant even though I exercise and I eat well.

    Take for example someone like me who was lucky to top 200 before even considering TRT? I don't know what happened, but about 1- 1/2 yrs ago I started to feel "off" and noticed a sudden great difficulty in getting erections. I was also tired and increasingly irritable. Happened after my primary care Dr suggested Welbutrin. Tried it and after 2-3 weeks felt something change. All of sudden I couldn't perform like I used to. I was floored to see my T was only 200 after I had it tested on a hunch. My quest started then and there.

    What options do I have? Suffer and then slowly fade away? Or, do I seek to restore lost balance and hope for the best? I despise the reliance on this crap, but I see other options ranging from "none" to "Buttf*cked".

    I know - I haven't had it tested recently, but my TT is probably 200 or less. My libido and erectile function is most definitely impaired. I need more sleep than most. I don't respond to exercise the way I used to.

    It doesn't effect my mood. I feel good emotionally and have all kinds of things going on in my life.

    Metabolically, I am fine. I eat pretty carefully. MY fasting blood sugar, serum insulin, Hba1c and lipid panel are all in good shape.

    Now, mind you, I would like to have it all - busy professional life, boundless energy, great sex life, etc. But for me, TRT in its current state can't deliver it. I might be able to get closer if I were willing to turn myself into a science project as many do who post to these boards. But I don't have the time and the inclination for it.


    And, if a solution comes along, I will definitely give it a trial.


    But, overall, I feel I am better off without TRT than with.



    But, in order to feel that way, I have had to sacrifice the view that I have to have it all.
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    You raise good points, but may be missing some important aspects.


    While your numbers are similar to mine, I feel rather differently and can suffer from heretofore unknown depressive episodes and erectile issues. Being in a funk 80% of the time and PO'd does not a good life make, especially since I am big on quality of life vs. quantity.

    How old are you? I am in my mid 40s, meaning I shouldn't feel this way till I am in my 70s or 80s. My daughters are young and I want to be a good Dad, not a constantly PO'd one.

    Allow me to address your comments:

    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    I know - I haven't had it tested recently, but my TT is probably 200 or less. My libido and erectile function is most definitely impaired. I need more sleep than most. I don't respond to exercise the way I used to.

    How old are you? If you are 60 then so be it. If 35 then you may go downhill. Fast. Life should be more than a test of endurance and was/is getting simply annoying.

    It doesn't effect my mood. I feel good emotionally and have all kinds of things going on in my life.

    I envy you. This pathetic BS hits me hardest here despite my conscious efforts to the contrary.

    Metabolically, I am fine. I eat pretty carefully. MY fasting blood sugar, serum insulin, Hba1c and lipid panel are all in good shape.

    Are you aware that there are many, many studies showing a direct correlation between low T and many life shortening issues? This is not avoidable. I personally was sensing beginning insulin resistance despite good diet and exercise.

    Now, mind you, I would like to have it all - busy professional life, boundless energy, great sex life, etc. But for me, TRT in its current state can't deliver it. I might be able to get closer if I were willing to turn myself into a science project as many do who post to these boards. But I don't have the time and the inclination for it.

    I too would like to have it all. But, the crippling fatigue and malaise really suck, to be blunt. Really takes all joy out of life and renders life more of a chore than anything else. I do 100% agree that way too many here become endless science projects and spend way too much time obsessing over every lab result, which they repeat weekly if not more. Remember, however, that these boards tend to attract people like this. I wouldn't be surprised if there are 1000 satisified people out there for every obsessed one here.


    And, if a solution comes along, I will definitely give it a trial.

    But, overall, I feel I am better off without TRT than with.

    Are you sure you are better off? Ever tried it? Perhaps you'll be one of the "normal" ones who just feel better, especially with hcg to preserve your testes. Your decline, like mine up until sudden erectile issues, may have been so gradual that you've forgotten how to feel and who you really are.

    But, in order to feel that way, I have had to sacrifice the view that I have to have it all.

    There is a difference between trying to have it all at a level not appropriate for your age and willingly allowing yourself to decline and suffer needless physical ailments.
    Nobody is more pro "find a cure" than me, but at some point one must realize his body has broken. Perhaps a trial basis might be appropriate, with the right Dr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    While your numbers are similar to mine, I feel rather differently and can suffer from heretofore unknown depressive episodes and erectile issues. Being in a funk 80% of the time and PO'd does not a good life make, especially since I am big on quality of life vs. quantity.

    How old are you? I am in my mid 40s, meaning I shouldn't feel this way till I am in my 70s or 80s. My daughters are young and I want to be a good Dad, not a constantly PO'd one.

    Allow me to address your comments:
    I am a bit older than you, Anyman - 55.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    Yes, the math works out, but what about the efficacy? Is a weaker dose, administered in a higher quantity, absorbed the same and as effective as, a stronger dose in a lesser quantity?

    I ask I has had some older, but still well within the expiration date 100mg/mL T which I tried and 2 days later now feel unusually tired. Usually, I would do .4mL of 200mg/mL T, but I thought "Might as well use the weaker and slightly older stuff first" and did .8mL of the 100mg/mL stuff.

    This whole process is something of a PITA. Wish I could find something that worked and just stick with it.
    Multiply the numbers together, then you have your answer.

    0.8mL x 100mg/mL = 0.4mL x 200mg/mL

    Cancel the mL units of course. This is basic chemistry.
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    Yes, the math works out as I indicate. There could still be a clinical difference.


    Quote Originally Posted by wildfox View Post
    Multiply the numbers together, then you have your answer.

    0.8mL x 100mg/mL = 0.4mL x 200mg/mL

    Cancel the mL units of course. This is basic chemistry.


    I am no chemist and the numbers certainly work out as I indicated. What I question, however, is if the clinical experience is the same. A larger quantity of weaker solution might not leech out into the body in the same manner and same rate. Might produce different results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    I am no chemist and the numbers certainly work out as I indicated. What I question, however, is if the clinical experience is the same. A larger quantity of weaker solution might not leech out into the body in the same manner and same rate. Might produce different results.
    I doubt it would make much of a difference. It's probably more convenient to have a higher concentration so that the volume is lower (saves time). The rate at which the ester is removed and the T is released (called pharmacokinetics) is most likely the same.
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