T-gel ineffective for anyone else?
- 12-29-2007, 11:54 AM
T-gel ineffective for anyone else?
I've been on 50mg/day compounded test gel for 3 mos now, and not feeling it. I am 33yo male. My level went from 425 to 475... not much. Why would this not be working? Should I ask for a more potent gel, pellet implant, or go for shots? This is frustrating, I want to feel like a young(er) man again.
- 12-29-2007, 12:01 PM
some people need 100mg/day, or because (often) of skin or thyroid issues need to switch to a better brand gel or injectables. I know that the gel is 'more natural' than the shots, and dr. john prefers them. But its most likely that your thyroid is underactive and thus your not absorbing. Also, you are probably 'shut down' and should talk to your doc about adding in hcg 250iu EOD or 100iu ED to your regimen. have any shrinkage going on?
12-29-2007, 12:34 PM
12-29-2007, 10:18 PM
Many people do not respond well to transdermals, specially when they have thyroid problem.
I use T & hcg shots on E2D shedule.
One day (T + Liquidex)
next day 380iu HCG
so I do shots daily.
I use 31Ga 5/16" long needle 3/10cc insuline syringes for either shot.
If you tell me your SHBG I will estimate your approximate T dose.
Latter you go per bloot test analysis.
Get this tests
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Your goal is
FreeT3 top of range
FreeE2 (0.45 - 0.6)
BAT BioAvailable Testosterone
There is much more to good health.
12-30-2007, 12:26 PM
Just another theory, but you may also want to consider that your compounded gel is of poor quality.
Your "increase" from 425 to 475 could be a simple standard deviation of your normal testosterone level and/or taking blood draws at different times of the day.
Did you have the blood drawn at the same lab, same method, same time?
Did you happen to check your pre and post gel LH levels? If you are LH supressed, it would be safe to assume that the gel is absorbing and the question then becomes titration.
Before switching to shots I was taking 200 mg of test (PLO gel) and my level was 312 ng/dL. That's a boatload of test.
I would consider going to 75 mg and see how you feel. Don't get caught up in your labs; they're just numbers subject to error. How you feel is the indicator to watch.
12-30-2007, 12:29 PM
12-30-2007, 05:57 PM
12-30-2007, 06:52 PM
When you add exogenous T to your system, it is detected in the hypothalmus which in turn tells the pituitary to secrete less LH which in turn results in less endogenous T production.
In short, a few weeks after you start taking exogenous T, you will not be producing any endogenous T. You can't detect this by measuring T because your testing will show you any T that is in your body (including the exogenous kind).
You can however infer that if your LH is zero (or close to it) that you would not be producing any endogenous T because your testicles are no longer getting that LH signal to produce it.
..and to the parent post: If you have zero LH but decent T, we know that the T must be coming from the gel not from your testicles.
12-30-2007, 08:05 PM
12-30-2007, 09:36 PM
FSH as you indicated triggers sperm production. It also increases leydig cell sensitivity (the cells in the testicles which produce T). So for a given amount of LH, if you had more FSH, I'd expect to see more T.
I haven't seen anything on how much difference this sensitivity makes to T levels -- i.e. I'm not sure if you'll be seeing 50% more T or .05% more. I'd be curious if anyone else has any insight.
BTW - Vitamin E and/or Resveratrol are supposed to increase Leydig cell sensitivity. Again -- how much, I don't know.
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