22 years old severe adrenal fatigue and hypothyroid please help
- 12-24-2007, 04:05 AM
22 years old severe adrenal fatigue and hypothyroid please help
Hi here let me first off say that I am extremely thankful to have
found out all the information over the internet from a group of
people like yourselves because without all of you guys out there I
dont think I would be around today. The past 9 months of my life have
been hell for me and i'll give ya my story. Basically, back in the
summer of 2006 I was a healthy good looking athletic quick witted 20
yearold guy with the world in front of me. I was ready to start my
junior year of college and also played Division 1 soccer for my
school so I had a lot going for me. Anyway, the only thing that was a
problem for me was a bad case of acne that I had since I had been in
my teens. My face wasn't really a problem as much as my back and
forehead were. So in august of 2006 i finally decided enough was
enough and started taking accutane. I was only on a low dose 20mg the
first two months and then 40mg during the final four months, and
basically I felt fine during the treatment. It was great for the
first time in my life I was acne free and my confidence was sky high
I was extremely happy. However, during November/December 06 things
started to happen that I was concerned about. Firstly, I didn't
notice it as much then as I do now looking back on it, but my face
got slighlty puffier nothing terribly noticeable but somewhat puffier
overall. Then my hair started to do some crazy things. First it was
slighty falling out throughout the treatment which my derm told me
was normal and it would return once I ended treatment, but around
December my hair started to get wirery and just crazy looking. I went
from having thick long straightish hair to this curly mess of wirery
mad scientist hair that started forming. Then towards the end of
December my hair started falling out in clumps upon clumps. The
shedding was particulary bad in the shower and overall I was
concerned because it was just freaking me out. After all there is
little to no history of MPB in my family and no one has ever started
losing hair in their early 20s, my dad is 50 with a full head of hair
so it couldnt be MPB at least not this early. So then anyway I
finally came off the drug in February of 2007 and the hairloss kept
coming and coming and so did the extreme change in texture. It was
just this wirery dry mess. Also over the next couple of months I
would look in the mirror and just thought to myself jesus my face is
just getting puffier and puffier what the hell is going on.
Not knowing what to do at all I went on propecia for the hair loss in
April of 2007 and that's sort of the straw that broke the camel's
back so to speak. I was only the drug for 2-3 weeks because of the
extreme side effects but one day I went to bed at night and then woke
up and knew something was wrong. It was like I had never gone to
sleep the night before it's hard to describe. It was like I was
asleep at night but really wasnt asleep like my body wouldn't shut
off. When I would go to practice in the mornings it was like I was in
this dazed sort of confused state i cant describe it. Anyway because
of that plus the other libido side effects I quit the propecia. All
of my ed sides seemed to reverse themselves within a week or two upon
ending the treatment however my sleep problems only got worse. I just
would wake up every morning feeling tired, drained, and fatigued.
Also it was impossible to sleep for 8 straight hours at night as I
would wake up all the time during the night etc. I was still very
much functional at this point but I just knew something was and
something was different. Over my spring break I had my GP run a basic
blood panel on me and he basically said everything came back in the
normal range and I was fine so I didnt really know what was going on.
Once the semester ended and the summer started things started taking
a turn for the worse. I would get constant bouts of fatigue
throughout the day, where i felt like I couldnt move. I tried working
a job at a pizzeria but it was extremely difficult as I felt so run
down and my energy would crash all the time.
At the same time all of this was going on I was training for our
upcoming soccer season as I always do except this time something was
different as well. I was running my ass off like I usually do and
lifting etc except I was gaining weight somehow, and I dont mean
muscle weight. It was like most of the weight I was gaining seemed to
be in my chest, hip, and midsection areas. At the same time my hair
was still falling out and the texture just kept getting worse and
worse. Also, I noticed that for some reason my skin wasn't tanning
like it used to in the summer. like my body would tan but my face
just wouldn't hold any color. Also my facial area kept getting
puffier, and my eyes looked very sunken in and had black circles
under them. When I came to preseason a week early to work out with my
friend on the team so we would be in top shape for preseason more
stuff kept happening. We ran our asses off everyday running and
running trying to get in better shape and be ready. In the past I
would just get stronger, i mean i was an athlete the more I ran the
better shape I would be in etc etc. However, this time I was getting
weaker and weaker with each day. it was like my body couldn't recover
from exercise adn each day my legs felt more and more tired. Once
preseason started I was physically so exausted that I just couldnt
even run and they cut me from team due to my inability to perform.
At this point I just knew something was wrong with my body, but
nobody would really listen to me not my friends, parents, etc etc.
When the semester started along with classes things only got worse.
As the semester picked up I couldn't keep up with school and my
grades have suffered tremendously. I kept getting these extreme bouts
fo fatigue throughout the day, my face became this moon shaped puffy
orb compared to how it used to look,i look like i've aged like 10
years its ridiculous, my hair has kept falling out and is very much a
mess now, i wasnt able to get deep restoritive sleep and i had
extreme insomnia. Then more things started to happen with me. I
started gaining more and more weight no matter how little I ate, I
had no metabolism anymore, and im having intolerances to the cold
etc. my mental state which had been bad for months kept getting
worse: I was forgeting things, sluring on words, much less social,
didnt have much to say anymore to people or the same outgoing
personality i used to have, i couldnt concentrate anymore for the
life of me etc. So I came across a thing for adrenal fatigue and
pretty much figured wow this sounds like me, and also at the same
time I came time I came across the site stopthethyroidmadne ss.com,
and thank God for it. It was like I was reading my life story for the
past year or so of my life.
So about a month ago I went to an endo to address my problems hoping
that something would come up on the blood tests this time. She looked
at me the first time I was in and basically said she would run all
the required tests, but just said that I looked perfectly healthy and
that she pretty much thought all the tests would come back normal. I
mean this lady was a quack in every sense of the word. Anyway thank
God for my previous blood tests and Im sure it didnt help that I
couldnt sleep the night before but when I sat down with her a couple
weeks ago she was reviewing my bloodwork with me and my TSH was an
8.9 compared with the 2.7 it had been in april. She said that this
could possibly be hypothyroid and I convinced her to put me on armour
all be it a 30mg low dose and i could work my way up. At the same
time she also said that she thought my lymes test came back positive
(when it really didnt the quack that she is really couldnt even read
the test right) so i went to beth israel hospital in boston to get
that checked out. On the armour I felt slughlty better but it was
really hard to tell because my dose was so low. Anyway, at Beth
Israel the infectious disease doctors looked at me told me what i
already knew, that I didn't have lymes and agreed to listen to my
situation. These guys actually were probably some of the best and
most open doctors and while they couldnt give me much guidance
because it wasn't their speciality they agreed that there most likely
was an endocrine issue and refered me to see the endocrinologists in
the hospital. When i went to see the doctor the following week she
simply had her RN just ask me a bunch of questions came in, looked at
my newer blood work, and told me I didnt have anything wrong with me.
She told me to stop taking the armour thyroid and that it wasn't any
good to begin with. She also said she was sorry she didnt have any
answers for me but that I was probably just depressed. She told me to
go back to the infectious disease clinic and that I should get tested
for HIV and MONO as there was more of a chance I had one of the two
than a thyroid and adrenal disorder. At this point i wanted to run
across the room and start beating her to a pulp but I restrained
I finally got in touch with doctor by the name of Edward
Lichten who is out of Michigan. He is considered a hormonal expert
and truly understands the situation better than most of the medical
field so I was thrilled to get a consultation with him. Basically,
during my phone consult I went over everything with him and he said
my wake-sleep cycle was disturbed, and put me on a protocol of
vitamins and medicine to get me back to health. He agreed that I
needed armour thyroid, and wanted me to get the dosage up to 60mg and
work my way up. When it came to prescribing hydrocortisone though he
said that my case was easy compared to most and that he didn't feel I
needed it and that I could recover on my own. However, a couple days
ago when I tried to take 6omg of armour for the first time weird
things started to happen. I got very light headed and dizzy, and just
very very tired and run down. I basically just crashed and couldn't
really move or do anything for a good couple of hours, I was just
very much out of it. I'm at a point right now where I'm barely
functional and just a shell of the person I used to be. I think I
need hydrocortisone so I ordered some online yesterday. Also I've attached a copy of my extensive blood work if any of you guys could take a look at it i would appreciate it. I am in the process of doing the home saliva test measuring cortisol so i'll let you know how that turns out.
happy holidays God Bless.
- 12-24-2007, 04:29 AM
Your story sounds scary, scary similar to mine, your side effects, the puffy face,ect.
I got adrenal fatigue and crashed from stimulant use, and i took Avodart for my hairloss, and think it messed me up aswell, but not as much as crashing off the stims.
I suffered for 6 months with all the sides your taking about, and by the time the idiot doctors booked me to see an endo, which was a ridiculous 2 month wait, my system pretty much returned to normal, except for my continuous low DHEA-S levels, which has SLOWLY increased as time went on.
Your attatched bloodwork document wont work for me, can you post the results in words on your thread?
Im interested to see them.
Thanks and good luck.
- 12-24-2007, 09:56 AM
Picture of EVD22 blood test attached.
I feel for you, things will get better,
but you did not even started talkig the right language.
I am surprised, because you mention two helpfull words in you painful story.
About the doctor I do not have other information except that he have had some real bad legal problems with feds while trying to help people. From our pov his bad story is a big plus for us.
Sounds like he have overcomed them, he is supported by LEF, so he must be good doc.
He wrote a book on Bio-Identical Hormones that is discussed in dec issue of LEF
Le Magazine, December 2007 - Cover: The Textbook Of Bio-Identical Hormones
With all that said you are comming with blood test that do not have a word on adrenals or thyroid.
Well except DHEA. And couple words on TSH within your message.
Well, while discussing your case, you have not done anything about adrenals, that suks, because most likely that is where most of your problem is.
So for now, you work only as much as you can recuperate by next morning, actually less than that.
Work is not only physical, stressfull situation stresses adrenals also.
Unless you have planned and forgot to fill up the two empty pages on your word document, we will need much more testing.
I could give you of what to test, but first lets see if you have some testing done already.
Well peak at post #44
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
STTM site is excellent source of info on thyroid and adrenals.
I hope dr Lichten is friendly and flexible, being big shot that he is.
As a reminder, you took Accutane 40mg and Propecia.
Recall if you have been taking anything else.
Suplements, juice, anything. Spell everything out.
- 5'3" 126 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
Well I'm no Dr but you can get on Palo Altos Reset Ad for the adrenal issue. It worked wonders for me. Try taking that for awhile and see how you feel.
As far as the thyroid goes I would see another DR. I hope you feel better soon. Being tired all the time sucks, you drag through life just fighting to make it to bed time, a zombie all day. Life passes you by because you are just too tired to care.
You need to get tested for a LOT more.
I would atleast get tested for the following.
24 Hour Urine Cortisol or 4 x day Cortisol
IMO those are a MUST.
Yea I have been tested for all those but for some reason the three panels of it all aren't showing up so I'll just list all of them or figure out something else. My free test, came back in the normal range but it seems way too low for a 22 yearold guy the same with my DHEA in range but low normal. I'll figure out a way to get the other results posted.
Just some thoughts. I'm not very knowledgeable on thryroid, so I'll just comment on what I do know...
D3 is deficient. Talk to your doc about an OTC D3 supplement, oil based. Don't go with D2 or prescription D2. It is actually MUCH less effective than a good D3 supplement. I am taking 2000iu D3 daily. I will retest in a few months and see if that has brought be up to where I want to be. 50+ is a good level.
Your T is perhaps low for your age, but is not low in the absolute sense. (i.e. I am 36 and before TRT my level was under 200). With you SHBG being low, this should mean that your Free T is decent.
If you can find a way to raise your FSH and/or LH a little, you would probably increase your T. This is more easily said than done, but I was able to raise my LH. I went through a neurotransmitter test panel which said my dopamine/serotonin were low. I'm taking supplements for that. I also increased my cholesterol, saturated fat, etc. I used to keep a stricter diet, now I eat a little more which helps with LH. If you are already not on a hypocaloric diet, then this wouldn't apply to you.
I don't remember the significance of homocysteine but this may be something to look into further.
FreeT=140 from dr Shippen chart
Estradiol (3rd generation=26.5pg/mL
From this new info
Do not touch anything about testosterone and estradiol
Thyroid low, you will have to raise that, do not touch it now, wait until you have clarified your Adrenals issue.
From the tests of VitD, magnesium and homocysteine I see lots of possibilities of wrong with in you, again adrenas first.
testing for many elements and many vitamins using blood test at Quest is a very good first step,
and you should do it if you do not have better choice.
In my opinion better choice is to do test
at Genova Diagnostics.
They provide a functional testing.
That is they check if you have enough of elements or vitamins or other.
Every individual have different needs.
this is individualized test.
It is not a test that compares your status with average recomendations.
I was at the top with my B12 and other, while testing at Quest, they (Genova) found that I am missing on B12 big way and on others.
I suggest this test for your adrenals.
Adrenocortex Stress Profile
GDX Adrenocortex Stress Profile
Saliva testing of adrenals is the only test that one should do using saliva.
It is often unreliable and
Patrick Hanaway, M.D
Chief Medical Officer, Genova Diagnostics
in his presentation mentions that they did three days every two hours sampling to get more points and then average the results.
You should be getting advice on adrenals from others.
I am not surre, possibly if your first attempts at testing are not really succesfull,
you may want to get
Cortef and Florinef and make practical, controlled investigation.
Good experienced doctor may be a great help here.
Whatever you do, don't start TRT until you have ruled out EVERYTHING.
You are way too young to get sucked into a lifetime of treatment, when you might be able to fix the underlying problem. I am no expert, but the adrenals/thyroid/vitamin D, etc all look at issue. Your T is low for a 22 yr old, but I suspect it would come up if the root cause is fixed.
I am troubled by the propecia. That stuff can be deadly. In fact, I think it's what nailed me. According to Dr Shippen, it can PERMANENTLY alter one's system and trash your DHT levels. Good thing you dropped it quickly.
Get ready to spend some serious time on research. You need to focus on the accutane/propecia angles and see what can be done. I wish you the best and will try to help.
Hiya, ive just skimmed your post. I was on the Tane too, two times in fact. Together with dieting, it trashed my system.
You have to get your adrenals fixed before going on the thyroid. Ive went on slowT3 without adrenal support and my daily temp was all over the place. my body temp flucuated between 35.9 to 37.3 in the mornings. itwas pretty horrible.
You should be a 24hr urine cortisol test to see how your adrenals at. and maybe also throw in the aldosterone test too.
Man i feel you for real. Im in bed for 12 straight months after 5 weeks of propecia use (4 yrs ago) that slowly messed up my androgens firstly my whole axis secondly and due to minor stimulant use and training developed the worst case adrenal fatigue. Three times in emergency room i almost left my last breath this summer.
I dont have the hormonal chart in front of me now to explain what propecia does to your adrenals exactly but as it is 2 am here now and my eyes are killing me to start explaining step by step but what it sure does is messes up your dht intracellular levels and activity very badly, dht receptor size and numbers. (how long ago did you take it and for how long?? Start taking monthly or every 3 months at minimum hormonal tests to evaluate the hormonal changes.
Dht plasma levels testing are useless if you go check them just find out your androstenediol glucuronide levels which reveal the function of your 5-a reductase enzyme and your dht potential in cells.
Since dht doesnt exert the same calming effect after propecia use you have slowly developed adrenal fatigue since your catecholamines are very subtle to mild stimulation and this will be driving your cortisol (or actually drove it) out of bounds. Thus you get in a vicious cycle of excessive stimulation by minor stressors which may be a coffee or just a cigarrette or even mild lifting.
Adrenal fatigue is the most common thing after propecia. It happens to most, some get it slowly others just after they quit or while on the drug and others years laters, since loss of previous dht ability messed up the whole HPTTA axis.
Taking testosterone supplement will be a major mistake since it will increase your nervousness more through noradrenaline rises and you will get more into adrenal fatigue.
I guess the only thing you can do is to try and keep a healthy diet, try to reestablish your sleep cycles and correct the adrenal fatigue either through HC or through isocort or other potential herbal supplements. Armour is probably needed as well after HC is started. I would suggest raw glandulars but i got an infection from them and jumped onto cipro and got ****ed up as well.
Now i have adrenal + thyroid + libido problems and i need to restart my whole axis but doctors are too puzzled about this. I am a total zombie dont function at all anymore. Last year i sprinted, played bball, lifted weights like a madman, i wasnt expecting this to come. I should have realised from the excessive stimulatory action of mild stimulants and the bad sleep i was having.
Regarding this reset ad. I am interested in knowing whether this "magical" product makes your adrenals regain some of their lost function or it makes them more sensitive to stimulants. I am looking for something that will make tolerant to excessive amounts of stimulants not getting stimulated by a cup of tea. At this point half a cup of coffee can throw me in a nervous shock and coma. Every time i drink a sprite or a juice i get 3 hours of hypoglycemia afterwards.
What does this reset ad do afterall? Does it have stimulant enhancing abilities or adrenal healing/soothing properties?
This sounds so familiar. My story is almost identical, except for the hair loss.
Try this book http://adrenalfatigue.org/products/adrenal_fatigue.php
This guy is good....very good. Most of what DRs will tell you is exactly the opposite of what you should do.
Also...if you sweat a lot try electrolytes, they really seemed to help me.
You mean Dr. "Fake" Wilson. This guy doesnt know what he is talking about man. You actually tried his products? I took them and got hospitalized with an orchitis/epididimitis from a strange but potent mycobacteria infection. It took away half my testicle in 3 days. Then i had to start on massive doses of cipro to save my testes and still been paying the price of all those drugs side effects. Dont take his dessicated adrenal glandulars, they come from argentina. This is a very dangerous approach. Very dangerous.
Offcourse his book is the bait. Its well illustrated and can explain even to a 6 year old what adrenal fatigue is and what should someone take to get better. I wouldnt risk it again taking such products though. Especially from him. He is not even a real doctor.
Last edited by solonjk; 02-22-2008 at 10:38 AM. Reason: adding something
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