Clomid Therapy and lack of results
- 12-18-2007, 12:56 PM
Clomid Therapy and lack of results
So I won't rehash my entire story because that would be a book, not a forum post.
Diagnosed with low test in February and got on Androgel in March. Been on 5 g up until a couple weeks ago. My total test peaked on the 5g gel at about 700 units (300-900 being normal) and without explanation it dropped to 507.
I'm young and the hypogonadism may have been induced by anabolic steroids, so the doc wants me to try clomid (again). For the past 3 weeks I have been stepping down on the gel with a constant dose of clomid:
Week 1: 100mg clomid/day 5g (4 pumps) gel/day
Week 2: 100mg clomid/day 3.75g (3 pumps) gel/day
Week 3 (Current week): 100mg clomid/day 2.5g (2 pumps) gel/day
So prior to week 1 I tested at something like 507 total testosterone (late November) and last Friday (12/14), which was the end of week 2 (3 pumps) I tested at 471.
Going down 1 pump and dropping 40 units of my total t isn't too promising. I'm now in mid week 3 and not feeling too great. Energy and libido are down and I've noticed some decrease in muscle size.
I shot the doc an email about what step to take next -- i.e. go back on full TRT or continue w/ the clomid. I wanted to get the thoughts from experienced members of this forum as well..
What do you guys think?
I know some of you, as I've noticed, will only respond with: what's your estrogen/free test/etc...but the doc is looking at total t as the benchmark right now, so that's what I'm using for now.
- 12-18-2007, 01:59 PM
Additional info from the doc: LH and FSH are still testing well below normal.
- 12-18-2007, 03:32 PM
12-18-2007, 03:37 PM
12-19-2007, 09:43 AM
What did you mean by - good luck with the second pass? Does this mean you are skeptical that it won't work?
I need to know which direction to move in. I was finally fine with the androgel, at least for a while. Now that I am tapering off and on clomid, I feel run down and sick, I don't have a libido anymore, and I feel like I'm experiencing some muscle atrophy, although that might be in my head.
Is it worth simply going back to TRT and getting on shots? Is this clomid thing even worth it anymore?
EDIT: It just doesn't make sense for my hormones to not recover from anabolics usage unless there was a pre-existing issue...I've even had a CT scan to rule out damage to the pituitary.
12-19-2007, 11:04 AM
but I have to see one person that recovered when started with a problem.
Depending on your mind set it may be worth a try.
It will take a long time and persistence to figure this one out.
there is many aspects to good health.
my short way
get tested at Quest and get:
FreeT3=4.2 (top range)
FreeE2 (0.45 - 0.6)
Get tested at Genova Diagnostics
eat everything this tests tell you to eat
repeat those test every 4 monts
while eating previusly recomended supplements
always add to the list
That should help most of problems that we see around.
Good luck to all of us
12-19-2007, 02:53 PM
Ok so I got a copy of what they last tested. This was tested on 12/14/07 - while still using 3 pumps of gel+100mg clomid/day. I am currently on 2 pumps(2.5g)+100mg clomid. Next week will be 1 pump, and then just clomid the week after:
Testosterone, Total: 473.91 (350-890 ng/dL)
SHBG: 26 (13-71 nmol/L)
Testosterone, Free 112.4 (47-244 pg/mL)
Testosterone % Free: 2.4 (1.6-2.9)
FSH: <0.3 L (1.4-18.1 mUI/mL)
LH: <0.1 L (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
Does that paint a better picture?
Since I am on such a heavy dose of Clomid and I am decreasing my gel usage, I figured the LH/FSH would be increasing at least somewhat, but it's a no go.
Should I drop the gel altogether at this point or continue tapering off?
12-20-2007, 10:21 AM
12-20-2007, 12:02 PM
I am NOT an expert, but I would certainly not expect your LH and FSH to rise much while still on exogenous testosterone.
I would wait until you've had blood drawn after being off of androgel for at least a couple weeks before drawing conclusions on the state of your pituitary. If you're really concerned about it, you could ask your doc to do a GnRH stimulation test.
Again, not an expert. Good luck with whatever you decide.
12-26-2007, 04:39 PM
You need to be off external T to get a true reading and you need help from "Dr. John"
There is one Dr. well versed in helping people in your situation: Dr. John Crisler of Michigan. Might be worth the time and money. Can't think of too many things more important than the 'ol balls..... I am no expert, but the amounts of clomid you speak of seem incredibly high.
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