Clomid Therapy and lack of results

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    Clomid Therapy and lack of results


    So I won't rehash my entire story because that would be a book, not a forum post.

    Diagnosed with low test in February and got on Androgel in March. Been on 5 g up until a couple weeks ago. My total test peaked on the 5g gel at about 700 units (300-900 being normal) and without explanation it dropped to 507.

    I'm young and the hypogonadism may have been induced by anabolic steroids, so the doc wants me to try clomid (again). For the past 3 weeks I have been stepping down on the gel with a constant dose of clomid:


    Week 1: 100mg clomid/day 5g (4 pumps) gel/day
    Week 2: 100mg clomid/day 3.75g (3 pumps) gel/day
    Week 3 (Current week): 100mg clomid/day 2.5g (2 pumps) gel/day

    So prior to week 1 I tested at something like 507 total testosterone (late November) and last Friday (12/14), which was the end of week 2 (3 pumps) I tested at 471.

    Going down 1 pump and dropping 40 units of my total t isn't too promising. I'm now in mid week 3 and not feeling too great. Energy and libido are down and I've noticed some decrease in muscle size.

    I shot the doc an email about what step to take next -- i.e. go back on full TRT or continue w/ the clomid. I wanted to get the thoughts from experienced members of this forum as well..

    What do you guys think?

    I know some of you, as I've noticed, will only respond with: what's your estrogen/free test/etc...but the doc is looking at total t as the benchmark right now, so that's what I'm using for now.

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    Additional info from the doc: LH and FSH are still testing well below normal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rausch View Post
    I'm young and the hypogonadism may have been induced by anabolic steroids, so the doc wants me to try clomid (again).
    I'm interested in what anabolics you have done, how many times, and at what ages. (at least as a warning to other youngsters that might want to get carried away)

    More info might help others. Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rausch View Post
    So I won't rehash my entire story because that would be a book, not a forum post.

    Diagnosed with low test in February and got on Androgel in March. Been on 5 g up until a couple weeks ago. My total test peaked on the 5g gel at about 700 units (300-900 being normal) and without explanation it dropped to 507.

    I'm young and the hypogonadism may have been induced by anabolic steroids, so the doc wants me to try clomid (again). For the past 3 weeks I have been stepping down on the gel with a constant dose of clomid:


    Week 1: 100mg clomid/day 5g (4 pumps) gel/day
    Week 2: 100mg clomid/day 3.75g (3 pumps) gel/day
    Week 3 (Current week): 100mg clomid/day 2.5g (2 pumps) gel/day

    So prior to week 1 I tested at something like 507 total testosterone (late November) and last Friday (12/14), which was the end of week 2 (3 pumps) I tested at 471.

    Going down 1 pump and dropping 40 units of my total t isn't too promising. I'm now in mid week 3 and not feeling too great. Energy and libido are down and I've noticed some decrease in muscle size.

    I shot the doc an email about what step to take next -- i.e. go back on full TRT or continue w/ the clomid. I wanted to get the thoughts from experienced members of this forum as well..

    What do you guys think?

    I know some of you, as I've noticed, will only respond with: what's your estrogen/free test/etc...but the doc is looking at total t as the benchmark right now, so that's what I'm using for now.
    If it did not worked first time,
    good luck with the second pass.

    Check your
    FreeT3
    FreeT4
    Thyroid antibodies

    low response to Androgel is often sign of thyroid issues.
    When/if you go again for testosterone supplementation use shots, unless you have very low DHT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    If it did not worked first time,
    good luck with the second pass.

    Check your
    FreeT3
    FreeT4
    Thyroid antibodies

    low response to Androgel is often sign of thyroid issues.
    When/if you go again for testosterone supplementation use shots, unless you have very low DHT.
    JanSz -

    What did you mean by - good luck with the second pass? Does this mean you are skeptical that it won't work?

    I need to know which direction to move in. I was finally fine with the androgel, at least for a while. Now that I am tapering off and on clomid, I feel run down and sick, I don't have a libido anymore, and I feel like I'm experiencing some muscle atrophy, although that might be in my head.

    Is it worth simply going back to TRT and getting on shots? Is this clomid thing even worth it anymore?

    EDIT: It just doesn't make sense for my hormones to not recover from anabolics usage unless there was a pre-existing issue...I've even had a CT scan to rule out damage to the pituitary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rausch View Post
    JanSz -

    What did you mean by - good luck with the second pass? Does this mean you are skeptical that it won't work?

    I need to know which direction to move in. I was finally fine with the androgel, at least for a while. Now that I am tapering off and on clomid, I feel run down and sick, I don't have a libido anymore, and I feel like I'm experiencing some muscle atrophy, although that might be in my head.

    Is it worth simply going back to TRT and getting on shots? Is this clomid thing even worth it anymore?

    EDIT: It just doesn't make sense for my hormones to not recover from anabolics usage unless there was a pre-existing issue...I've even had a CT scan to rule out damage to the pituitary.
    I am not a doctor and I do not have steroid experience either using it or treating it,
    but I have to see one person that recovered when started with a problem.

    Depending on your mind set it may be worth a try.
    It will take a long time and persistence to figure this one out.
    =====================
    there is many aspects to good health.

    my short way

    get tested at Quest and get:

    FreeT3=4.2 (top range)
    FreeE2 (0.45 - 0.6)
    BAT=575

    second pass

    Get tested at Genova Diagnostics

    EstroEssence
    NutriEval

    eat everything this tests tell you to eat
    repeat those test every 4 monts
    while eating previusly recomended supplements
    always add to the list

    That should help most of problems that we see around.

    Good luck to all of us
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    Ok so I got a copy of what they last tested. This was tested on 12/14/07 - while still using 3 pumps of gel+100mg clomid/day. I am currently on 2 pumps(2.5g)+100mg clomid. Next week will be 1 pump, and then just clomid the week after:

    Testosterone, Total: 473.91 (350-890 ng/dL)
    SHBG: 26 (13-71 nmol/L)
    Testosterone, Free 112.4 (47-244 pg/mL)
    Testosterone % Free: 2.4 (1.6-2.9)
    FSH: <0.3 L (1.4-18.1 mUI/mL)
    LH: <0.1 L (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)

    Does that paint a better picture?

    Since I am on such a heavy dose of Clomid and I am decreasing my gel usage, I figured the LH/FSH would be increasing at least somewhat, but it's a no go.

    Should I drop the gel altogether at this point or continue tapering off?
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    No opinions?
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    I am NOT an expert, but I would certainly not expect your LH and FSH to rise much while still on exogenous testosterone.

    I would wait until you've had blood drawn after being off of androgel for at least a couple weeks before drawing conclusions on the state of your pituitary. If you're really concerned about it, you could ask your doc to do a GnRH stimulation test.

    Again, not an expert. Good luck with whatever you decide.
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    You need to be off external T to get a true reading and you need help from "Dr. John"


    There is one Dr. well versed in helping people in your situation: Dr. John Crisler of Michigan. Might be worth the time and money. Can't think of too many things more important than the 'ol balls..... I am no expert, but the amounts of clomid you speak of seem incredibly high.
  

  
 

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