DHT: When to worry?

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    DHT: When to worry?


    We all know that DHT is not the demon it is made out to be and that it is responsible for much of our "manliness".

    That said, we also know that DHT tends to elevate more on a transdermal than on an injectible.

    So, at what point do we consider DHT to be "too" elevated when on a transdermal? Top of the range? 20% over top, 2X top?

    I have heard that serum DHT is a poor indicator of intracellular activity.

    Any thoughts?

    I am also worried about balding as I already have some thinning. I don't want to exacerbate the situation and will not take finasteride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    I have heard that serum DHT is a poor indicator of intracellular activity.
    >>Now I'm quoting myself...sheesh<<

    Anyways, I just found this:

    "Atlanta—Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) caused no adverse events in the prostate tissue of men with androgen decline of aging male (ADAM) syndrome after 6
    months of treatment, according to a study presented at the AUA annual meeting here...

    Testosterone-treated men exhibited a marked increase in serum testosterone and DHT, from below 300 to about 680 ng/dL and from about 30 to 50 ng/dL, respectively...

    Despite these elevations in serum hormone levels, no change in either androgen occurred in prostate tissue. In addition, no treatment-related changes were found in histology of the prostate, in stroma-epithelial ratio, and in the major biomarkers for cell proliferation, androgen receptor, or microvessel density."
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    We all know that DHT is not the demon it is made out to be and that it is responsible for much of our "manliness".

    That said, we also know that DHT tends to elevate more on a transdermal than on an injectible.

    So, at what point do we consider DHT to be "too" elevated when on a transdermal? Top of the range? 20% over top, 2X top?

    I have heard that serum DHT is a poor indicator of intracellular activity.

    Any thoughts?

    I am also worried about balding as I already have some thinning. I don't want to exacerbate the situation and will not take finasteride.
    My personal experience.
    I started on Androgel because that was the only source of T available to me.

    My DHT rose to
    DHT=226 ng/dL(30-85) LE’s Optimal Range: 30–50 ng/dL

    5x higher than max recomended by LEF

    That was about three months after I stopped using Proscar/Avodart.
    On Avodart I had DHT=29 (low)

    Now I am on injected Depo-Testosterone
    My DHT is ideal (I think)

    Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X) --------- Quest Diagnostics: Test Menu
    /------------------------------------ 69 (25-75 ) ng/dL Dihydrotestosterone
    /------------------------------------ 7.52 (1.00-6.20) pg/mL Dihydrotestosterone, FREE
    /------------------------------------ 1.09% (0.62-1.10) % Dihydrotestosterone, FREE %


    I do not have to listen to theories of why high DHT is good for me.

    It is a reasin I think that transdermal delivery is good only for those who need to raise their DHT.
    Other men thinker with hand granate (Proscar, Avodart) while using transdermals.

    While on Androgel I did not need Arimidex, now I have to use it.
    When the choice is between Arimidex and Avodart, I think Arimidex is much lesser evil.

    So when choice of testosterone delivery is freely available the bottom line is: use the one that would not produce need for Proscar/Avodart.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    My personal experience.
    I started on Androgel because that was the only source of T available to me.

    My DHT rose to
    DHT=226 ng/dL(30-85) LE’s Optimal Range: 30–50 ng/dL

    5x higher than max recomended by LEF

    That was about three months after I stopped using Proscar/Avodart.
    On Avodart I had DHT=29 (low)

    Now I am on injected Depo-Testosterone
    My DHT is ideal (I think)

    Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X) --------- Quest Diagnostics: Test Menu
    /------------------------------------ 69 (25-75 ) ng/dL Dihydrotestosterone
    /------------------------------------ 7.52 (1.00-6.20) pg/mL Dihydrotestosterone, FREE
    /------------------------------------ 1.09% (0.62-1.10) % Dihydrotestosterone, FREE %


    I do not have to listen to theories of why high DHT is good for me.

    It is a reasin I think that transdermal delivery is good only for those who need to raise their DHT.
    Other men thinker with hand granate (Proscar, Avodart) while using transdermals.

    While on Androgel I did not need Arimidex, now I have to use it.
    When the choice is between Arimidex and Avodart, I think Arimidex is much lesser evil.

    So when choice of testosterone delivery is freely available the bottom line is: use the one that would not produce need for Proscar/Avodart.
    Very well put, Jan. Reps. I think that's a decision I am going to have to make soon.

    Subjectively, Jan, how do you FEEL on the shots vs the transdermal? How is you energy and well being comparatively?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    Very well put, Jan. Reps. I think that's a decision I am going to have to make soon.

    Subjectively, Jan, how do you FEEL on the shots vs the transdermal? How is you energy and well being comparatively?
    Better.

    Caveat, those with limited choices and low testosterone,
    take any form that is available to you.

    Tow T is a b-i-tch, forget the sex part, think depression.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Better.

    Caveat, those with limited choices and low testosterone,
    take any form that is available to you.

    Tow T is a b-i-tch, forget the sex part, think depression.
    How was libido on Androgel Verses Test CYP?
    I am thinking about going back on Androgel because this E2 crap sucks and I can't get a script for Adex. My E2 tested at 39 while on 100mgs per week of Test Cyp, now I am on 150mgs of test cyp per week and I am sure that E2 is much higher. I can't rely on research chems my whole life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde12 View Post
    How was libido on Androgel Verses Test CYP?
    I am thinking about going back on Androgel because this E2 crap sucks and I can't get a script for Adex. My E2 tested at 39 while on 100mgs per week of Test Cyp, now I am on 150mgs of test cyp per week and I am sure that E2 is much higher. I can't rely on research chems my whole life.
    I am not sure if it really works that way,
    but I have increased frequency of my T shots from E3D to E2D, assuming that the dose is just right the E2 should be lesser problem or no prob at all.

    I think the E2 raises because of large difference in blood t levels. I expect additional benefit because of my subQ shots into belly fat, that should reduce the peaks even further.

    I have script for Arimidex available, I have some Arimidex pills home, but I use LiquiDex, much easier to figure precise dose with 3/10 cc or 1/2cc small syringe.
    In few days after Liquidex runs out, I am switching to liquid Anastrozole. Hope will work as good as Liquidex was.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I am not sure if it really works that way,
    but I have increased frequency of my T shots from E3D to E2D, assuming that the dose is just right the E2 should be lesser problem or no prob at all.

    I think the E2 raises because of large difference in blood t levels. I expect additional benefit because of my subQ shots into belly fat, that should reduce the peaks even further.

    I have script for Arimidex available, I have some Arimidex pills home, but I use LiquiDex, much easier to figure precise dose with 3/10 cc or 1/2cc small syringe.
    In few days after Liquidex runs out, I am switching to liquid Anastrozole. Hope will work as good as Liquidex was.
    Liquidex is Liquid Anastrozole. Arimidex is the brand name for Anastrozole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde12 View Post
    Liquidex is Liquid Anastrozole. Arimidex is the brand name for Anastrozole
    True.
    but

    There is a liquid product in a bottle called
    Anastrozole made by ChemOne Research Group
    1mg/mL 60mL

    Same strenght like Liquidex just twice the amount of product and $10 less price comparing to Liqiudex.
    Three days wait for delivery, must be local.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    True.
    but

    There is a liquid product in a bottle called
    Anastrozole made by ChemOne Research Group
    1mg/mL 60mL

    Same strenght like Liquidex just twice the amount of product and $10 less price comparing to Liqiudex.
    Three days wait for delivery, must be local.
    Have you ever tried a Steroidal AI like Formestane?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde12 View Post
    Have you ever tried a Steroidal AI like Formestane?
    No I did not.

    ================
    Formestane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Formestane belongs to a class of drugs known as aromatase inhibitors. It is used in the treatment of estrogen-receptor positive breast cancer in post-menopausal women. It is available as an intramuscular depot injection (Lentaron).

    Formestane is often used to suppress estrogen production from anabolic steroids or prohormones.

    Formestane has poor oral bioavailability and as such is no longer popular as many orally available aromatase inhibitors have been developed.

    It is available as a supplement for bodybuilders in transdermal formulations
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