Good success with HRT

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    Good success with HRT


    Just finished 10 weeks of HRT with good results. I am using 180 mg of test cyp weekly with 0.5 anastrazole every other day. I will be starting a 10 day cycle of HCG in two weeks and I will see how that goes. (I am going to check test and estradiol levels at the end of that)

    I am 52. My primary problem was that of fatigue that made it hard to work past Wednesday on a busy work week. Needless to say libido was pretty much nil. Physical training at most was 2x per week which was a struggle.

    When my wife finally got fed up with hot flashes and went on HRT her libido began increasing. Viagra worked but I always got gastritis and a headache the next day. So I ran some extensive blood work.

    My total T was below the 40th percentile with free T below the 25th. Estradiol was at the 90th percentile. Now Totat t is about 110th ( I going to cut the t to 160 mg for the next round). Estradiol is 25th percentile. The rest of the studies have been fine.

    I have plenty of energy now and have been able to ramp back up my prior physical training scheule (weights 3 x per week and bjj 2-3 times per week. I know have the energy to look forward to going out on activities with my wife on the weekend and enjoy it.

    So for now it seems to be very helpfull and I look forward to discussing HRT with you folks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diancecht View Post
    Just finished 10 weeks of HRT with good results. I am using 180 mg of test cyp weekly with 0.5 anastrazole every other day. I will be starting a 10 day cycle of HCG in two weeks and I will see how that goes. (I am going to check test and estradiol levels at the end of that)

    I am 52. My primary problem was that of fatigue that made it hard to work past Wednesday on a busy work week. Needless to say libido was pretty much nil. Physical training at most was 2x per week which was a struggle.

    When my wife finally got fed up with hot flashes and went on HRT her libido began increasing. Viagra worked but I always got gastritis and a headache the next day. So I ran some extensive blood work.

    My total T was below the 40th percentile with free T below the 25th. Estradiol was at the 90th percentile. Now Totat t is about 110th ( I going to cut the t to 160 mg for the next round). Estradiol is 25th percentile. The rest of the studies have been fine.

    I have plenty of energy now and have been able to ramp back up my prior physical training scheule (weights 3 x per week and bjj 2-3 times per week. I know have the energy to look forward to going out on activities with my wife on the weekend and enjoy it.

    So for now it seems to be very helpfull and I look forward to discussing HRT with you folks.
    Congratulations on your success.
    ---------------
    You approach and description looks different when compared to what I am doing.
    My story is here:
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
    We do not cycle, what we do is continous.
    We work on absolute numbers, we do not use percentiles.

    I would be inerested in more details of your approach.
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    I may change my program esp if I see significant drops in test or significantly increased estradiol after I do the HCG cycle. This is my first pass so to speak.

    As a physician who is not an endocrinologist I at this point want to keep it simple. Percentages give me a better overall view IMO as lab testing has a lot of extrinisic and intrinsic variables. One of the key points we were taught is dont treat the lab or imaging study, focus on treating the patient. So I look at how I feel trying to be as objective as possible about it. I take all lab tests with a grain of salt. Looking at the first tests I think I may be a little high on test and will cut back and recheck.

    I think HRT has some important values for our society. Its reminds me of where preventive services were in the early 80's. At that time it was controversial but if we apply reason, scientific rationales and a carefull approach it may become accepted also.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diancecht View Post
    I may change my program esp if I see significant drops in test or significantly increased estradiol after I do the HCG cycle. This is my first pass so to speak.

    As a physician who is not an endocrinologist I at this point want to keep it simple. Percentages give me a better overall view IMO as lab testing has a lot of extrinisic and intrinsic variables. One of the key points we were taught is dont treat the lab or imaging study, focus on treating the patient. So I look at how I feel trying to be as objective as possible about it. I take all lab tests with a grain of salt. Looking at the first tests I think I may be a little high on test and will cut back and recheck.

    I think HRT has some important values for our society. Its reminds me of where preventive services were in the early 80's. At that time it was controversial but if we apply reason, scientific rationales and a carefull approach it may become accepted also.
    I hope that doing my blood test at the best laboratory I can find should give me an edge.
    I go for Quest Diagnostics (in general) and more specifically for their Nichols Institute.
    Many of my tests on my blood list are specified at such a way that they are specifically done at Nichols institute.

    Oter tests I am sending to Genova Diagnostics.
    I hope that they are of reasonable quality but for me important is that they provide "probable diagnosis" and give a list of supplements and their doses for corrective action.
    See attachments, it shows details.
    JanSz-Metabolic Analysis and Cellular Energy
    ============================== ============================== =========
    "As a physician who is not an endocrinologist "

    That gives you an edge, open mind.

    Endos have a poor track record on TRT/HRT matters.

    When you have personal intrest in this subject you will be a quick learner.

    Hope you will visit us more often,
    and offer friendly suggestion when we struggle.
    ============================== ============================== ===========
    HRT, TRT, preventive services, life extension.

    Lets not limit actions to but few hormones.
    Human body is more complicated.

    So far I pulled up few sets of tests on my post #44
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    please look it over, make a comments, add to it.
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    Thats quite an extensive lists of tests. Very comprehensive.

    For me the first question is: What is the problem? Then do an extensive hx, physical is next, then the tests.

    In my case fatigue was the big issue. Very tired by Wednesdays. I was needing almost a 3 day weekend to recover. Recovery periods after exercise were very long. Not to mention problems with libido and erectile function.

    So differentials would include among others such possibilities as malignancy, anemia, thryroid disorders, autoimmune disorders, diabetes, depression, cardiac disorderss etc,etc.

    So after reasonable elimination of those I looked at the hormone levels and did some reading. Next step was then to see if hormone replacement would help. So began a program and logged the results.

    I watched and noted objective findings to see if any change occurred. Items such as sponateous awakening times, amt and quality of sleep, exercise recovery time, spontaneous morning erections and could see a very significant improvement. At this point a still unanswered question is the placebo effect. Obviously I cant do a double blind study on myself (besides a test on one person has very limited value on its own). However usually placebo effects often tend to dimninish over time as the persons enthusiasm for the treatment wanes.

    As I begin the HCG cycle I frankly dont know what the effects will be. Since I will be off test for two weeks before the HCG is started I would expect the blood levels of test to drop significantly and perhaps to see a rise in estradiol. The question is will I notice anything and if so what will be the effects. I dont know what the HCG will do test levels. Will it rise and if so how much. The other question is will the estradiol eleveate like it was at the beginning. So I will watch and note the objective symptoms. I plan on doing a test and ;estradiol at the end of the HCG to see what it is but also may do a test just before the cycle to see its effects.

    So in a way I am my own guinea pig. However the theory of HRT and made sense to me 8-10 years ago when I heard a very interesting paper on it at a medical conference. Are there risks. Of coure there are. Anything has a potential risk and benefity. There is even risk from nonaction. I believe the long term risk to be low and the potential advantages to be high. Time will tell if it was the right one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diancecht View Post
    Thats quite an extensive lists of tests. Very comprehensive.

    For me the first question is: What is the problem? Then do an extensive hx, physical is next, then the tests.

    In my case fatigue was the big issue. Very tired by Wednesdays. I was needing almost a 3 day weekend to recover. Recovery periods after exercise were very long. Not to mention problems with libido and erectile function.
    So differentials would include among others such possibilities as malignancy, anemia, thryroid disorders, autoimmune disorders, diabetes, depression, cardiac disorderss etc,etc.
    So after reasonable elimination of those I looked at the hormone levels and did some reading. Next step was then to see if hormone replacement would help. So began a program and logged the results.

    I watched and noted objective findings to see if any change occurred. Items such as sponateous awakening times, amt and quality of sleep, exercise recovery time, spontaneous morning erections and could see a very significant improvement. At this point a still unanswered question is the placebo effect. Obviously I cant do a double blind study on myself (besides a test on one person has very limited value on its own). However usually placebo effects often tend to dimninish over time as the persons enthusiasm for the treatment wanes.

    As I begin the HCG cycle I frankly dont know what the effects will be. Since I will be off test for two weeks before the HCG is started I would expect the blood levels of test to drop significantly and perhaps to see a rise in estradiol. The question is will I notice anything and if so what will be the effects. I dont know what the HCG will do test levels. Will it rise and if so how much. The other question is will the estradiol eleveate like it was at the beginning. So I will watch and note the objective symptoms. I plan on doing a test and ;estradiol at the end of the HCG to see what it is but also may do a test just before the cycle to see its effects.

    So in a way I am my own guinea pig. However the theory of HRT and made sense to me 8-10 years ago when I heard a very interesting paper on it at a medical conference. Are there risks. Of coure there are. Anything has a potential risk and benefity. There is even risk from nonaction. I believe the long term risk to be low and the potential advantages to be high. Time will tell if it was the right one.
    Post your pre-supplementation
    TotalTestosterone
    FSH, LH,

    post lattest

    prolactin
    SHBG
    FreeT3
    FreeT4
    cortisol
    DHEA

    If you do not have them, it will be less pain if you do complete blood test as I posted on my post #44
    every last number and letter counts so rather that trying to squeze that list into pe-designed forms, print it out on your office stationary, sign it and go to nearest Quest lab, do not draw blood in your office, (chain of quality points).

    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    You may want to consider complete list at Genova Diagnostics.
    You need account with them first.
    myGDX Login

    then get the whole thing
    ============================== ==================== ======
    GDX ONE - Optimal Nutrition Evaluation
    The ONE - Optimal Nutrition Evaluation - consists of:
    Metabolic Analysis
    Amino Acid Analysis
    Oxidative Stress Analysis

    Essential & Metabolic fatty acid Analysis,
    EstroEssence
    Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis (CDSA 2.0)
    Comprehensive Detoxification Profile.
    Hair Elemental Analysis

    ============================== ==================== ======
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    fyi.. I'd expect that you will see a good crash.

    Your T will be diminished because you stopped supplementation. If the HCG allows you to produce endogenous T (assuming you are secondary, not primary), it will do so with some lead time.

    For the two weeks you stopped T + the lead time you will have very little T. It may not be a very fun time.

    I think it's interesting you're trying this. It advances our knowledge. It seems there is still debate on the merits of T, HCG, Arimidex - when/if to use, etc.

    On the other hand, there is an interesting sticky at the top of the forum by Dr. John Crisler who is no longer a regular here. He has been treating many people and found that T+HCG at the same time is frequently an effective therapy.

    Good luck!
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkLA View Post
    fyi.. I'd expect that you will see a good crash.

    Your T will be diminished because you stopped supplementation. If the HCG allows you to produce endogenous T (assuming you are secondary, not primary), it will do so with some lead time.

    For the two weeks you stopped T + the lead time you will have very little T. It may not be a very fun time.

    I think it's interesting you're trying this. It advances our knowledge. It seems there is still debate on the merits of T, HCG, Arimidex - when/if to use, etc.

    On the other hand, there is an interesting sticky at the top of the forum by Dr. John Crisler who is no longer a regular here. He has been treating many people and found that T+HCG at the same time is frequently an effective therapy.

    Good luck!
    Mark
    Sticky: A4M White Paper on HRT
    Headdoc 06-24-2007 09:26 AM
    by Dr. John

    -----------------------------------
    Try to find out who is this legendary Dr John.

    When I clock on his name I come up empty.

    All the rest is gone too, I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Sticky: A4M White Paper on HRT
    Headdoc 06-24-2007 09:26 AM
    by Dr. John

    -----------------------------------
    Try to find out who is this legendary Dr John.

    When I clock on his name I come up empty.

    All the rest is gone too, I think.
    Wow, I did not notice. The "TRT A Recipe for Success" and the other Dr. John items are now gone. As is Dr. Johns profile. A Google search for this topic does turn up many results for that phrase. I would suggest to the original poster to look there.

    I hate to see (presumably) politics limit the information available to those who would benefit from it.

    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkLA View Post
    Wow, I did not notice. The "TRT A Recipe for Success" and the other Dr. John items are now gone. As is Dr. Johns profile. A Google search for this topic does turn up many results for that phrase. I would suggest to the original poster to look there.

    I hate to see (presumably) politics limit the information available to those who would benefit from it.

    Mark
    Unfortunately, this was by his request as we do not want to remove any information that could be helpful. He told us to remove all his posts so we did. It is unfortunate.

    Dr. John is no longer here but this does not change our view at his achievements and value. We wish him luck in any and all future endeavors.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    Unfortunately, this was by his request as we do not want to remove any information that could be helpful. He told us to remove all his posts so we did. It is unfortunate.

    Dr. John is no longer here but this does not change our view at his achievements and value. We wish him luck in any and all future endeavors.
    Thank you.

    Mystery solved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diancecht View Post
    As I begin the HCG cycle I frankly dont know what the effects will be.
    What is the reason you chose to "cycle" test with hCG as to staying on both concurrently?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Thank you.

    Mystery solved.

    You're welcome, even though the speculation was rather entertaining (and way out there)
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    Unfortunately, this was by his request as we do not want to remove any information that could be helpful. He told us to remove all his posts so we did. It is unfortunate.

    Dr. John is no longer here but this does not change our view at his achievements and value. We wish him luck in any and all future endeavors.
    Thanks for clearing that up.
  

  
 

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