Testosterone and Sperm Count

[skooch]

I'm 30 years old and my test levels are 313 ng/dl. My father is 65 and his are 200 ng/dl and he is on Androgel so that seems pretty low for my age even though it is within the reference range.

My wife and I are trying to get pregnant and I also have a low sperm count. I have been on clomid 50mg/day for almost a year now which almost doubled my sperm count and brought it to within normal levels, although it is still low.

I want to see a doctor about my test levels, but I don't know what can be done to raise testosterone levels without reducing sperm count, other than the clomid. So I want to try to figure out if this is possible before I shell out the money to see a doctor.

Something that raises test and sperm count would be ideal, if such a thing exists.

Thanks.

 

[wildfox]

I was on hcg + arimidex as TRT while trying to get my wife pregnant. We were successful after 3 months.

 

[skooch]

I'm familiar with hcg and Arimidex appears to be an aromatase inhibitor. How much did the HCG help? The clomid is helping my sperm count but apparently not my test levels.

 

[JanSz]

I'm 30 years old and my test levels are 313 ng/dl. My father is 65 and his are 200 ng/dl and he is on Androgel so that seems pretty low for my age even though it is within the reference range.

My wife and I are trying to get pregnant and I also have a low sperm count. I have been on clomid 50mg/day for almost a year now which almost doubled my sperm count and brought it to within normal levels, although it is still low.

I want to see a doctor about my test levels, but I don't know what can be done to raise testosterone levels without reducing sperm count, other than the clomid. So I want to try to figure out if this is possible before I shell out the money to see a doctor.

Something that raises test and sperm count would be ideal, if such a thing exists.

Thanks.

drop Clomid

hcg 250iu/E2D alternatively with testosterone
hmg 75iu/day (untill she is pregnant, no more than 1year)

get your FreeT~300
use Depo-Testosterone E2D schedule to raise it
get your SHBG level I will give you approximate starting T dose

You will have to do frequent blood testing at Quest Diagnostics
to figure out your
FreeT and FreeE2 levels
also other tests

When you good and ready for long term comitment;

start with dropping Clomid and anything else that you are using.
2 months latter do blood test per my list on post #44
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

Post results here.
=======================================================================
=====================
Your 65yo father is not doing himself any favores by being on Androgel and having TT=200

Do him a favor, inform him about it.

I am 67yo, I hate good folks hurting themself,
while lining pockets of Androgel makers.

 

[wildfox]

Well, it helped enough. My Total T was in the high 600s. Not enough to make me feel normal, but better than mid 200s.

 

[skooch]

drop Clomid

hcg 250iu/E2D alternatively with testosterone
hmg 75iu/day (untill she is pregnant, no more than 1year)

get your FreeT~300
use Depo-Testosterone E2D schedule to raise it
get your SHBG level I will give you approximate starting T dose

You will have to do frequent blood testing at Quest Diagnostics
to figure out your
FreeT and FreeE2 levels
also other tests

That's a pretty comprehensive answer to my question. Thank you! I will speak to my doctor about this.

Your 65yo father is not doing himself any favores by being on Androgel and having TT=200

Do him a favor, inform him about it.

I am 67yo, I hate good folks hurting themself,
while lining pockets of Androgel makers.

Why not? Is his test too low or too high? He says it makes him feel better and I'm sure he's not paying for it out of pocket.

 

[JanSz]

That's a pretty comprehensive answer to my question. Thank you! I will speak to my doctor about this.



Why not? Is his test too low or too high? He says it makes him feel better and I'm sure he's not paying for it out of pocket.

I am sure that your Father is feeling better than with out Androgel.
But he can feel much better or plain old normal.

His Total Testosterone should be much much higher.
Actually he should not look at his TotalT levels.
He should look at FreeT levels and keep it at the top level.
There is many other considerations.
Just keep reading this board.
You may want to look at my story:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/77385-jansz-metabolic-analysis.html

 

[skooch]

I am sure that your Father is feeling better than with out Androgel.
But he can feel much better or plain old normal.

His Total Testosterone should be much much higher.
Actually he should not look at his TotalT levels.
He should look at FreeT levels and keep it at the top level.
There is many other considerations.
Just keep reading this board.

His Total T was 200 before he started on the Androgel. I don't know what it is now. I did read your post, very interesting stuff.

 

[BigAk]

I'm 30 years old and my test levels are 313 ng/dl. .

Hi skooch... How are you feeling with your current levels?? pretty normal??? any hypogonadism symptoms at all??

 

[skooch]

Hi skooch... How are you feeling with your current levels?? pretty normal??? any hypogonadism symptoms at all??

unfortunately yes. the most pronounced is a terribly low to nonexistent libido. I also have difficulty maintaining an erection.

those are the reasons I had my test levels tested to begin with.
I also am often tired, depressed, lethargic and I am steadily losing weight. I went to an endocrinologist about the same symptoms a few years back and at the time my test levels were about 370. he said that since they were within reference range there was nothing wrong with me. which was extremely frustrating because you expect drs to be experts and sometimes you know a lot more than they do.

so the answer to your question is yes. I might have some other symptoms as well that I just don't notice because its been this way for at least the last 10 years.

thanks.

 

[JanSz]

unfortunately yes. the most pronounced is a terribly low to nonexistent libido. I also have difficulty maintaining an erection.

those are the reasons I had my test levels tested to begin with.
I also am often tired, depressed, lethargic and I am steadily losing weight. I went to an endocrinologist about the same symptoms a few years back and at the time my test levels were about 370. he said that since they were within reference range there was nothing wrong with me. which was extremely frustrating because you expect drs to be experts and sometimes you know a lot more than they do.

so the answer to your question is yes. I might have some other symptoms as well that I just don't notice because its been this way for at least the last 10 years.

thanks.

Now is the question;

do you have strong desire to work on your problem,

with guarantee

that it will be a daily fight for as long as you live?

 

[skooch]

Now is the question;

do you have strong desire to work on your problem,

with guarantee

that it will be a daily fight for as long as you live?

Yes I do. However my first priority right now is getting my wife pregnant and I do have a low sperm count so I am very reluctant to do any TRT.

I have an appointment with our fertility doctor this morning who is an endocrinologist. I am going to ask his opinion on the situation.

 

[JanSz]

Yes I do. However my first priority right now is getting my wife pregnant and I do have a low sperm count so I am very reluctant to do any TRT.

I have an appointment with our fertility doctor this morning who is an endocrinologist. I am going to ask his opinion on the situation.

In healty body healthy sperm.

Proper amount of test level, and everything else, will help you in your quest for procreation.
Key is balance.

Procreation and health are mutualy supportive states.

 

[skooch]

In healty body healthy sperm.

Proper amount of test level, and everything else, will help you in your quest for procreation.
Key is balance.

Procreation and health are mutualy supportive states.

Is there anything in particular I should ask the doctor or tell him? I don't know if he can help me with this but it can't hurt.

 

[MarkLA]

In healty body healthy sperm.

Proper amount of test level, and everything else, will help you in your quest for procreation.
Key is balance.

Procreation and health are mutualy supportive states.

True, but... most docs seem to be ready to prescribe testosterone and do not know about much else. If he takes testosterone alone, his LH and FSH will be reduced, right?

I think I read somewhere that they are experimenting with T as male birth control, presumably for this reason.

IMHO, I think he'd need T, HCG and HMG. This all assumes functioning testicles who can take the HCG and HMG signals and do something.

Mark

 

[BigAk]

Now is the question;

do you have strong desire to work on your problem,

with guarantee

that it will be a daily fight for as long as you live?

Daily fight as long as you live??? Wow Jan... If you put it this way; that's pretty scary to anyone... Could you explain why it would be a daily fight every day of your life??? I mean; what's involved here that creates such a requirement??

 

[JanSz]

Daily fight as long as you live??? Wow Jan... If you put it this way; that's pretty scary to anyone... Could you explain why it would be a daily fight every day of your life??? I mean; what's involved here that creates such a requirement??

Why do you eat every day?

The fight may not be uncomfortable and high stress,everyday.
After a wile one may find out what are the required manual tweaks that our deffective "autopilot" requires.

 

[skooch]

True, but... most docs seem to be ready to prescribe testosterone and do not know about much else. If he takes testosterone alone, his LH and FSH will be reduced, right?

I think I read somewhere that they are experimenting with T as male birth control, presumably for this reason.

IMHO, I think he'd need T, HCG and HMG. This all assumes functioning testicles who can take the HCG and HMG signals and do something.

I just got back from the doc and he wants to do another full hormone panel before he does anything.

Taking testosterone alone will lower my LH and FSH which is why it is being tested as male birth control. If your body is getting test from elsewhere it will not produce its own and will shut down your sperm factory.

I'm going back for the bloodwork on Friday. We'll see what happens from there.

 

[JanSz]

I just got back from the doc and he wants to do another full hormone panel before he does anything.

Taking testosterone alone will lower my LH and FSH which is why it is being tested as male birth control. If your body is getting test from elsewhere it will not produce its own and will shut down your sperm factory.

I'm going back for the bloodwork on Friday. We'll see what happens from there.

Did I mention that you should use HCG & HMG?
Yes I did.

 

[skooch]

Did I mention that you should use HCG & HMG?
Yes I did.

Yes you did. Unfortunately I can't prescribe it to myself so I need to wait for the doctor to do it. He didn't seem terribly concerned with my testosterone levels, although he said they were low, but once I mentioned the sexual issues he started taking me seriously.

I'll update after I hear back from him regarding the next steps.

 

[JanSz]

Yes you did. Unfortunately I can't prescribe it to myself so I need to wait for the doctor to do it. He didn't seem terribly concerned with my testosterone levels, although he said they were low, but once I mentioned the sexual issues he started taking me seriously.

I'll update after I hear back from him regarding the next steps.

Look for a doctor who either know what he is doing or at least does not interfere with you wishes.

We have a better luck with osteopaths here.

On my thread I post a way of locating doctor in your neighborhood.

 

[jayoh]

Skooch- I have some advice for you that I learned the hard way. My wife and I have been struggling with infertility for about 3 years caused by my low sperm count. After having some blood work done by a urologist, I learned my testosterone was also very low. This shed some light on many of the problems I had been having and could not wait to get started with TRT. I was prescribed test and HCG which we thought would at least keep sperm above the zero mark, so we could complete our upcoming IVF cycle. (This procedure would only require literally a few sperm.) I had another sperm analysis done last week right before our procedure and the count had dropped from 1.5 million down to zero. After getting this news, the plan was to have a procedure where they do a biopsy of the testicles to try and find sperm withing the testicles, but luckily on the day of the IVF, I gave another sperm sample and they were able to find 10 sperm. My advice would be to think twice before starting TRT while trying to conceive. I know this is not everyone's experience, but I just wanted you to know of the risk. I have only been on TRT for 6 weeks and at low dosages. On the flip side, I am feeling about 100 times better than I did before TRT. If you decide to go on TRT, it might be a good idea to bank some sperm now just in case you have a similiar reaction to the therapy as I did.

 

[wildfox]

If you want sperm, you want hcg (plus arimidex if you convert T to E2).

Any doctor that doesn't understand that should not be your doctor.

 

[skooch]

I had another sperm analysis done last week right before our procedure and the count had dropped from 1.5 million down to zero.

This is exactly what I am worried about and why I would not start TRT until after we had conceived. I would consider taking HCG but I don't want to risk my sperm count at this stage in the game.

 

[skooch]

I got the bloodwork done and the testosterone levels came back at 700, which the doctor said was at the high end of normal. Before that it had been 300 over the summer and about 300 a couple years back. So I'm not sure why the jump. I tried androgel for a few days a month before the bloodwork, but I only used 2 packets over about 4 days. I don't think it would stay in my blood that long or even effect me that much.

So the doctor says that my hormone levels are fine, he is a bit concerned about the random jump in test levels, and he is happy with my sperm count, which is still very low (18 mil was last count). I am still taking the clomid, and my wife gets one hcg shot a month to trigger her ovulation.

This is all very frustrating. I know that something is wrong with my hormone levels - I have had them tested multiple times over the last four years and the highest ever was about 350, and that doctor said that was normal because it was within the reference range. Normal for an 80 year old man, maybe, but he didn't seem to get that.

Both my urologist and the endocrinologist said that the clomid was the most we should be doing to raise my sperm count, which is my primary concern right now. Once my wife is knocked up a couple of times I'll stop worrying about that and maybe start thinking about TRT.

If you want sperm, you want hcg (plus arimidex if you convert T to E2).

Any doctor that doesn't understand that should not be your doctor.