Possible for Androgel to stop working?

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    Possible for Androgel to stop working?


    I've been on Androlgel for about 8 months now. It finally got me physically, emotionally, and mentally centered again and it's really been working very well.

    Within the last 1-2 weeks something has changed. I've become anxious again. I do not wake up with morning erections and my joints are achy. These all remind me of symptoms of low test. My total level was 700+ on a normal scale of 300-900 about two months ago when I got my last blood test.

    I don't know what's different. My doctor switched me from the packets to the pump in the last couple months, so I don't know if that had something to do with it...

    Is it possible for Androgel to just stop working? Has anyone ever heard of this? I'm kinda freaking out and the anxiety is crippling. Is it possible to get a bad batch?

    I already scheduled an appt with my GP for a blood test this Friday, but I need some peace of mind now. Your thoughts and experiences are much appreciated...

    I'm on 5g/daily (4 pumps).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rausch View Post
    I've been on Androlgel for about 8 months now. It finally got me physically, emotionally, and mentally centered again and it's really been working very well.

    Within the last 1-2 weeks something has changed. I've become anxious again. I do not wake up with morning erections and my joints are achy. These all remind me of symptoms of low test. My total level was 700+ on a normal scale of 300-900 about two months ago when I got my last blood test.

    I don't know what's different. My doctor switched me from the packets to the pump in the last couple months, so I don't know if that had something to do with it...

    Is it possible for Androgel to just stop working? Has anyone ever heard of this? I'm kinda freaking out and the anxiety is crippling. Is it possible to get a bad batch?

    I already scheduled an appt with my GP for a blood test this Friday, but I need some peace of mind now. Your thoughts and experiences are much appreciated...

    I'm on 5g/daily (4 pumps).
    you may need some dhea or other raw materials that you may be lacking. Examine your life style and eating patterns and i am sure you will find answer in there. Hint winter is coming up and lack of sunlight will play a huge factor in this issue and will cause termporary drops in hormones mainly test, thyroid, Vitamiin d levels drop 30 -40% from summer time to novemeber and will continue to decline. Reason people get sick in the winter time immune system from lack of sunlight. Think about it most people that tan do not get sick..anxiety could be from low thyroid coming from lack of sunlight
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rausch View Post
    I've been on Androlgel for about 8 months now. It finally got me physically, emotionally, and mentally centered again and it's really been working very well.

    Within the last 1-2 weeks something has changed. I've become anxious again. I do not wake up with morning erections and my joints are achy. These all remind me of symptoms of low test. My total level was 700+ on a normal scale of 300-900 about two months ago when I got my last blood test.

    I don't know what's different. My doctor switched me from the packets to the pump in the last couple months, so I don't know if that had something to do with it...

    Is it possible for Androgel to just stop working? Has anyone ever heard of this? I'm kinda freaking out and the anxiety is crippling. Is it possible to get a bad batch?

    I already scheduled an appt with my GP for a blood test this Friday, but I need some peace of mind now. Your thoughts and experiences are much appreciated...

    I'm on 5g/daily (4 pumps).
    Your testicles finally give up.
    You should do 10grams/day plus 250iu hcg E2D every other day.

    Post all your blood work.
    Usually there is much more than just Androgel.

    So we are talking shots (hcg).

    Unless you have very low DHT you should be on T shots plus HCG shots.
    With (otherwise) normal DHT situation, you may be 3-4 times over the top range of DHT, I do not buy bs that it does not matter.
    Post your DHT, SHBG.
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Your testicles finally give up.
    You should do 10grams/day plus 250iu hcg E2D every other day.

    Post all your blood work.
    Usually there is much more than just Androgel.

    So we are talking shots (hcg).

    Unless you have very low DHT you should be on T shots plus HCG shots.
    Post your DHT, SHBG.
    agreed if your shbg, e2 is in check add in hcg 250 ius every 2-3 days and it will give you a nice lift and reblalancing of other hormones pathways that may have been depleteld.
    What about dhea-s levels, e2, shbg,
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    agreed if your shbg, e2 is in check add in hcg 250 ius every 2-3 days and it will give you a nice lift and reblalancing of other hormones pathways that may have been depleteld.
    What about dhea-s levels, e2, shbg,
    What about 150 other indicators?
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    Rausch - you are not alone in this situation. I am 37 y/o and am on Dr. J's TRT protocol. I use Androgel 5mg/day. I have been on it for about 11 months. Until about 2 months ago I had never felt better. Awsome libido, energy, incredible sense of well being.....happy. Then all of a sudden in the bottom seemed to drop out. Libido declined, depression set in and the MOST ungodly horrific anxiety has set in. Can't sleep, can't concentrate, can't think clearly, cannot relax mind or body. I have had the full blood test panel and urine test through Rein and everything came back within normal range. Total T was upper 700's. I have tried to ride it out to see if this is a fluke but there has been no change in almost 3 months. I have never had an issue with anxeity even befor TRT but now it is almost unbearable. I am to the point now that I am thinking of shutting all TRT down hoping to "reset" everything. I am a little worried about what going "cold turkey" will do to me but nothing can be worse than the anxiety I am experiencing right now. I'm sure that this is of little comfort but just wanted to let you know that you are not the only one who has experienced this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    What about 150 other indicators?
    its really only
    ft4, ft3, TPO, CBG, ferritin, iodine urine loading -thyroid

    cortisol free and total, urine 24 hour, - cortisol
    s
    hbg, e2, TT, FT, dht, progesterone, estogen metabolites -
    tesotsterone, e2 imbalances

    mineral imbalances = have to examine dietary and supplemental program. use spectracell testing if you have good insurance , RBC fatty acid, Organic acids tests and AA urine

    Life style factors - sunlight exposures, daily stress , sleep patterns
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenlantern0 View Post
    Rausch - you are not alone in this situation. I am 37 y/o and am on Dr. J's TRT protocol. I use Androgel 5mg/day. I have been on it for about 11 months. Until about 2 months ago I had never felt better. Awsome libido, energy, incredible sense of well being.....happy. Then all of a sudden in the bottom seemed to drop out. Libido declined, depression set in and the MOST ungodly horrific anxiety has set in. Can't sleep, can't concentrate, can't think clearly, cannot relax mind or body. I have had the full blood test panel and urine test through Rein and everything came back within normal range. Total T was upper 700's. I have tried to ride it out to see if this is a fluke but there has been no change in almost 3 months. I have never had an issue with anxeity even befor TRT but now it is almost unbearable. I am to the point now that I am thinking of shutting all TRT down hoping to "reset" everything. I am a little worried about what going "cold turkey" will do to me but nothing can be worse than the anxiety I am experiencing right now. I'm sure that this is of little comfort but just wanted to let you know that you are not the only one who has experienced this.
    Post your lattest
    TotalT
    SHBG
    DHT
    E2
    .
    .Units and ranges and name of laboratory
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    total t - 762 Range 241-827
    SHBG -20 Range Range 13-71
    Estradiol - 26 Range 3-70
    Progesterone - .5 Range.3-1.2
    Prolactin - 4.9 Range 2.1-17.7
    Triiodothyronine 3.4 Range 2.3-4.2

    DHT was not tested
    Last edited by greenlantern0; 11-13-2007 at 10:44 AM. Reason: Labcorp
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    My labs were tested by Labcorp
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    Thanks for the replies.

    I understand the other factors and hormones you all speak of, but convincing a doctor to test me for these is a whole 'nother story.

    I mentioned it to my endo via email this morning and she told me to get my total T tested. She said the switch from packets to pump could cause some "dosing/absorption" issues, in her words. So I'm going to my GP (not my endo) tomorrow morning to get total T tested.

    A bit more lifestyle information - I'm a powerlifter, so I eat a variety of foods and supplement with several vitamins, fish oil, protein blend, etc. I am doing heavy lifting 4 days of the week and heavy GPP (i.e. conditioning work) 1 day of the week. I do not think it's nutrition or physical activity lacking in this case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenlantern0 View Post
    total t - 762 Range 241-827
    SHBG -20 Range Range 13-71
    Estradiol - 26 Range 3-70
    Progesterone - .5 Range.3-1.2
    Prolactin - 4.9 Range 2.1-17.7
    Triiodothyronine 3.4 Range 2.3-4.2

    DHT was not tested
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    table post #40

    140 1002 xx21 300 x31.5 250

    Your TotalT should be about 1000
    check DHT as is while you are on Androgel,
    if it is high
    I would rather if you used
    T injections, 140mg/week on average.
    Divide that dose and make E3D schedule
    DepoT 200mg/mL

    140/200/7*3=0.3cc each shot or 30 units on insuline syringe

    use 250iu HCG on days in between

    Since it means shots every day, I just changed my own schedule to T/hcg alternatively
    that is E2D schedule
    140/200/7*2=0.2cc, 20 units testosterone
    next day 250iu hcg

    With using T injections and HCG yout E2 may go up.
    I suggest you do these test at Quest

    Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
    to find and adjust your E2 status using Liquidex and insuline syringe with cut off needle to find exact dose.

    and use this test

    Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)

    to adjust yout T injections.

    There is a lots more testing.
    Look at post #44
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    --------------------------------------------------------


    Triiodothyronine 3.4 Range 2.3-4.2

    I assume you ment

    FreeT3=3.4 range (2.3-4.2)

    (3.4-2.3)/(4.2-2.3)=0.58

    you are missing 42% of T3 hormone

    Use 2-2.5 grains of Armour thyroid

    read all precaucions on using it
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    The exact same thing happened to me last spring but with Testim. In February or so my levels were 740, less than a month later all the old familiar symptoms of low T came back with a vengeance. I got into my doctor and had him do my blood work and my total T came back at 123. To this day I donít know what happened the gel just stopped working. I am on the shots now and overall I like them better with the exception of the hematocrit issues that can arise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman3131 View Post
    The exact same thing happened to me last spring but with Testim. In February or so my levels were 740, less than a month later all the old familiar symptoms of low T came back with a vengeance. I got into my doctor and had him do my blood work and my total T came back at 123. To this day I donít know what happened the gel just stopped working. I am on the shots now and overall I like them better with the exception of the hematocrit issues that can arise.
    was it an absorption issue?

    as far as hematocrit, do you donate blood?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    was it an absorption issue?

    as far as hematocrit, do you donate blood?
    If regular blood donation doesnt do the trick you might want to look into donating 2x red blood cells (red blood cell apherysis). They filter your blood and remove 2x the RBC that are normally taken in a regular donation.
    MH
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    Quote Originally Posted by muslhead View Post
    If regular blood donation doesnt do the trick you might want to look into donating 2x red blood cells (red blood cell apherysis). They filter your blood and remove 2x the RBC that are normally taken in a regular donation.
    MH
    They had that option when I went to donate the last time. I thought I would be better off giving whole blood to reduce more total volume.

    But it's the red cells that contribute to polycythemia?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    They had that option when I went to donate the last time. I thought I would be better off giving whole blood to reduce more total volume.

    But it's the red cells that contribute to polycythemia?
    large dosages of milk thistle works as well chelates iron and ease off vitamin C as well
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    They had that option when I went to donate the last time. I thought I would be better off giving whole blood to reduce more total volume.

    But it's the red cells that contribute to polycythemia?
    Yes. If you reduce your red blood cells your HCT and HGB will follow lower.
    MH
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    large dosages of milk thistle works as well chelates iron and ease off vitamin C as well
    HAN
    Are you saying Milk Thistle has an effect on lowering red blood cells? I know it protects the blood cell lining but I am unaware of RBC reduction. Since he is concerned with RBC count being too high how does milk thistle help this?
    MH
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    I guess it was an absorption issue. All I know it stopped working all togather. As far as the blood donations yes I started two month ago. I am thinking I waited too long to start though.I have been on injections for seven months and have donated once and I probably should have had at least two donations in this time. My hematocrit before the donation was between 51 and 54. I had it checked last Friday and I am still waiting to see the results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by muslhead View Post
    HAN
    Are you saying Milk Thistle has an effect on lowering red blood cells? I know it protects the blood cell lining but I am unaware of RBC reduction. Since he is concerned with RBC count being too high how does milk thistle help this?
    MH
    helps on lower ferrrtin and dealing with hemochromotosis
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman3131 View Post
    I guess it was an absorption issue. All I know it stopped working all togather. As far as the blood donations yes I started two month ago. I am thinking I waited too long to start though.I have been on injections for seven months and have donated once and I probably should have had at least two donations in this time. My hematocrit before the donation was between 51 and 54. I had it checked last Friday and I am still waiting to see the results.
    Sounds exactly like my situation.
    You will see your levels decrease with a regular 60 day donation period.

    You can save yourself some money if you are going to RedCross they do a hgb test before they lete you donate. So instead of paying a lab to monitor your HCT level you can monitor it via Hemoglobin levels instead. At first all you are trying to do is make sure the levels are decreasing. After a few donation periods (say every 6 months) then have a full CBC done at a lab.
    MH
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    Thanks for the info!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    helps on lower ferrrtin and dealing with hemochromotosis
    Need comments;

    To protect my liver I take
    Milk Thistle Extract (Silybum marianum)900 mg
    Milk thistle extract (Silybum marianus) (seeds) 100 mg
    HepatoPro (Polyunsaturated Phosphatidylcholine) 3x900 mg

    But I also take iron because my ferritin is low:
    Iron [from IronAidģ Iron Protein Succinylate (300 mg)] 2x15 mg
    Iron (from Ionic Plant Based Minerals) 2.3 mg

    ------------------------
    http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/MilkThistle.html
    Milk thistle, (also known as Silymarin), is commonly used to protect the liver from damage, as well as help the liver regenerate after damage has occurred. Milk thistle can be useful for those who use phenobarbitol, which can be toxic to the liver.
    ----------------
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    helps on lower ferrrtin and dealing with hemochromotosis
    Please provide some backing for this I can find no support for this statement in all my searching. I wish it were true. While I dont have hemochromotosis I do have elevated ferritin and therefore would love to find a fix (rather than regular donations)
    MH
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    Quote Originally Posted by muslhead View Post
    Please provide some backing for this I can find no support for this statement in all my searching. I wish it were true. While I dont have hemochromotosis I do have elevated ferritin and therefore would love to find a fix (rather than regular donations)
    MH
    I had my ferritin tested, Jan07, came in at over 1232 (range 22-322).
    June07 it came in at 750
    Oct07 it came in at 200

    I gave blood 2x (pint each) during that period. not enough for that result.

    Other things I did:

    Daily zinc (competes with iron for absorption)
    eliminated C supps
    took a supp that contains - Caper, Chicory, Black Nightshade, Arjuna, Negro Coffee, Yarrow, Tamarisk - 4 a day for first 3 months, then 2 a day thereafter.
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