Don't you guys worry about "having" to abandon HRT?
- 11-07-2007, 09:22 AM
Don't you guys worry about "having" to abandon HRT?
One of the biggest worries of going on a life long journey of HRT is the existence of a real possibility of a dire need to abandon HRT for some reason or another.
We all know that life is ever changing all the time. What seems too well and fitting in one's life this year may be totally the opposite two years later. One on HRT today should consider the real fact that life may take a 180 degree turn next year; and suddenly HRT is harmful rather than healthy. The possibility of a complication linked to HRT is a real one; leaving a man having to abandon it and resume naturally. Trouble then is that the longer one has been on HRT, the more impossible to quit.
Also; we all have heard the comments from guys who after a few years of HRT; suddenly are not sure about staying on this life style (needle jabbing.... constant tuning... new meds adding... etc...) for the rest of their life.
Do you guys ever consider this reality?
Is there a way around it?
Am I being unrealistic, over worried and analytical?
Just wanna read yalls take on this....
- 11-07-2007, 09:46 AM
Hopefully, we will stay natural as long as we can, and only go into this routine in the latter part of our lives. Then all those drawbacks you mentioned will be commonplace, whether we are on HRT or not. We do it just to stay alive a little bit longer.
- 11-07-2007, 03:01 PM
That said, I can tell you that I spent time in my bed wondering how I was going to get up in the morning and work, and nothing helped. Not antidepressants (which I don't take anymore), not amphetamine (adderall, which I don't take anymore), not anything - supplements included.
I began TRT a few months ago, so I am no expert. I can only tell you how it has worked for me during a short time.
My energy is back, my stamina is back, I feel sharp again and better able to deal with stress. My sleep is unparalleled.
Will it last? I don't know.
But coming from someone who had the same worries as you (and I now wonder if the anxiety was low-T related) I can tell you that it is not a decision I regret making.
I felt as if I was "faking" my way through each day; now I am living again.
11-07-2007, 03:32 PM
This is and remains by far my BIGGEST concern. Too bad alternatives are few, if any.
Lifelong dependence was and is my biggest fear--and biggest concern. A lifetime of needles, tests, bloodwork and other BS is daunting to say the least. Also, I was worried about going down a path from which there would be no escape even if future treatments/technology changes.
This is precisely why I researched for months and more before finally contacting and starting treatment with Dr Shippen. I've talked to many local Drs, gone to a large teaching hospital to see a "Specialist" and more. At the end of the day, however, my T level remains way too low and my attitude, state of mind, sexual issues and lack of energy just weren't getting better despite more exercise, a careful diet and more. Research revealed how low T can mean vastly enhanced risk for many rather nasty affliction.
I completely understand and sympathize with the poster who was tired of "faking" it through life. But-- in the here and now I need to support my family, be a Dad and live some semblence of a life before I see what's beyond. It's for these reasons that I decided to go ahead and start with Dr S, who understands these concerns and tries to minimize the negatives and dependence as much as possible.
Do I wish there were alternative? Absolutely. But--for now I have few other choices. I've yet to hear from ONE person who successfully, at least by my standards, repaired or restored their HPTA.
11-07-2007, 03:47 PM
11-07-2007, 03:51 PM
rick and anyman; excellent posting and opinions. I appreciate sharing your views.
11-07-2007, 04:36 PM
This discussion gets me philosophical: How much of me is "me" ? (m)
For all of my adult life I'd never before been "depressed" or had sexual issues, unless you count wanting it all the time. All of a sudden, I find myself more often than not feeling "down", lacking in energy and PO'd at the world. I went from nice guy to not so nice in a matter of months. Did my mind or "soul" change? I don't think so. What changed is my body, which decided to become weak on me and fail for as of yet unknown reasons.
I am still pondering this. How much of what I consider to be "me" is indeed "me"? If my personality can change so much due to a hormonal issue what does this say about us and who we are?
11-07-2007, 06:03 PM
11-07-2007, 06:40 PM
Aren't most of us just back to where we started if we're forced to abandon HRT?
11-07-2007, 07:32 PM
My standpoint was different.
I felt a certain way when I was younger. I think I "know" who I am. For the past number of years, I have not been that person.
T has given me back more of myself.
It has not changed me into someone I'm not. In fact, that was what really weighs the calculus in favor of TRT, for me. I considered going on T as a theraputic trial. I have stayed on T because it worked. Quite convincingly.
11-08-2007, 09:30 AM
I'll take feeling and looking good while enjoying an active sex life over being flabby, unhappy with ED!
11-08-2007, 09:32 AM
11-08-2007, 09:35 AM
11-08-2007, 09:39 AM
11-08-2007, 11:08 AM
Abandone hrt? I decided to make the commitment because the quality of life without it was horrendous.
Then, when I read the studies that basically stated that men with low testosterone had a much greater risk of dying than those with normal levels.
I KNEW I WAS ON THIS PATH TO AN EARLY GRAVE. And so I realized I had made the right choice to go on HRT.
The way I see it, the blood tests, the meds, the financial expenses are a small price to pay for the quality of life I now have.
Yeah, there may be risks for the long haul, but the way I see it you have to "hedge your bet" by staying healthy overall. In my opinion treatments (whether traditional or holistic) for androgen related side affects are all part of the package.
11-08-2007, 11:10 AM
This is exactly what my biggest concern is. Unfortunately, I see no alternatives.
[QUOTE=BigAk;1081195]No... If you're ever forced to abandon HRT, you'll be in a way far worst situation than you've ever been before HRT.... The longer you're on HRT, the harder (more impossible) it is to get back to your old normal.QUOTE]
Although I do not see a situation where a person cold be "forced" to abandon HRT (exception: natural or man made disasters, loss of supplies, etc) dependence is precisely my biggest concern by far. Once started one is almost certainly locked in for life.
The problem is lack of alternatives. If one is already doing poorly and having issues, then what other options are there? Do nothing and watch a multitude of obective and subjective aspects of health get increasingly more severe? At some point and for some people there aren't many other options.
However, someone who is borderline, i.e T of around 500 +/- and with other issues that can and should be addressed first like excess weight, poor diet etc should try everything possible to avoid HRT and make it a tool of last resort. Those who are younger and with T levels of 0-300 +/- may have o other choices, assuming they have first tried to remedy any potential underlying condition. I personally went to every Dr and got every test I could think of before going down this road. Only when Dr S and I agreed we had tried everything was HRT considered.
Looming over this it the fact that I have yet to read of ONE person who recovered his HPTA to what I would consider a sufficiently functional state. BigAk has had some success, which I admire, but he is the first and only I have seen to get anywhere. Even so, my take on his numbers, etc does not lead me to believe he has or will fully recover it as I define the term.
The bottom line: Unless there is a reversible underlying issue it would seem that once the HPTA is broken there is no fixing it, at least not yet.
11-08-2007, 11:42 AM
I also think this is part of the beauty of Dr. Crisler's protocol, at least as I understand it.
By making hCG a part of your TRT, I understand that you are maintaining your endogenous T production.
Plus, think about all of the other things testosterone is supposed to protect against. Low test is a killer.
Is it any different than a diabetic being on insulin?
11-08-2007, 12:40 PM
If for one reason or another I had to come off TRT it would be horrid.
Pre-TRT I was a mess emotionally, physically, etc
There is no way I will go back to being a depressed, Zombie. I wouldnt put myself through what I ewnt through again. Id honestly rather be dead.
11-08-2007, 01:17 PM
11-08-2007, 01:39 PM
Likewise my IGF-1 levels are high end of OPTIMAL range, my DHEA levels are mid level of OPTIMAL range, etc. All of my Lab work figures are - according to my GP - "good. except for the ones that are excellent".
And prior to HRT / TRT my levels were awful (how about Total T in the high 140s to low 150s on a scale of 220 - 1000)???
Why would I ever consider going off of HRT? My quality of life has been improved a hundred times over since my TRT / HRT program got stabilized! I can think of no reason that I would come off of TRT. And if it was banned in this country, then I'd have to move to one of those American Retirement Communities in Mexico or Costa Rica!
As far as staying natural as long as you can... I honestly think that people with good natural levels of T and who were not hypogonadal or experiencing andropause would probably not be on this Board to start with!
And if you do "go off of HRT/TRT" you are NOT going to ever go back to "normal" (not a good normal with VG levels of T anyway). You went on TRT/HRT because your levels were too low to start with. If you go off TRT/HRT then the normal that you are gonig to return to is the crappy old low levls that you started with... if even that much since you have aged during the time period that you've been on TRT/HRT, etc.
And I agree completely with "anyman"...
I've yet to hear from ONE person who successfully, at least by my standards, repaired or restored their HPTA.... or has shown absolute proof in that regard (not just a "Jeez, I haven't had any testing actually done but I do seem to feel a smidge better"...)
11-08-2007, 03:46 PM
11-08-2007, 07:59 PM
I am worried about politicians outlawing TRT and putting us in the estrogen reeducation camps.
11-08-2007, 09:38 PM
11-08-2007, 10:18 PM
11-09-2007, 07:22 AM
11-09-2007, 07:43 AM
11-09-2007, 09:09 AM
11-09-2007, 09:17 AM
11-09-2007, 09:19 AM
11-09-2007, 10:21 AM
Testosterone is already Schedule III, highly regulated. IMHO maybe it may be further restricted for anti-aging, but I'm not sure how that would be justified for hypogonadism. Hypogonadism is a recognized endocrinological condition where testosterone supplementation is a proven treatment for many patients.
My T level is ~200. After trying to fix it will nutrition, I just started TRT. My physician just about demanded it as we had been through everything else.
11-09-2007, 11:53 AM
One have to live a life of eunich for some time before he can get help.
They first wait for people to break and then the make attempt at fixing it.
There is no attempt made at preventive action.
It is not only about testosterone.
When they try to help you, they first ask you for your birthday.
You cannot get restored to youthfull levels.
11-09-2007, 11:57 AM
If a legitimate medical need exists, I don't see how anyone would have a problem getting meds.
There are a ton of legitimate studies indicating the benefits of testosterone in hypogonadal males.
11-09-2007, 12:03 PM
Hell the Govt wants to ban DHEA and all other natural products one can buy at health food store and allow FDA to regulate ... Imagine that disaster
11-09-2007, 12:20 PM
Im pretty certain that TRT will be available to us, in time more politicians will be on it as well, and they will understand.
Of coarse anytime I think Im sure on something I turn out wrong!!!
11-09-2007, 01:02 PM
30mL vial of 200mg/mL Tests cost $100
it contains 6000mg testosterone.
To get the same amount of testosterone using Androgel,
$200 box of 30x5gram 1% packets=30*5*0.01=1.5mg
Why should they take 1$ if the can scalp you for $80
buy "cheap" Androgel 199.99/box
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Edited, added below:
30 packs Androgel provides 15 day supplementation ~ two weeks
Using 150mg/week dose
6000/150=40weeks or 80 weeks for the same $200 cost of Androgel pack (shipping not included).
2weks vs 80 weeks for $200
11-09-2007, 01:06 PM
11-09-2007, 02:10 PM
I think it's ridiculous that T is a schedule III drug like Oxycontin.
I think it's ridiculous that many endocrinologists see a T level of 300 in a 25 year old or a 65 year old, tell them they are normal and send them on their way.
I know that GH which seems to be beneficial to people is very restricted. I'm not sure there's a good reason.
IMHO - There are dangers in messing with hormones and so it's OK that they are not OTC like Thailand or something. However, I think if a doctor thinks it will help a patient, there should be no government interference.
11-09-2007, 02:33 PM
Nany state is comming, they will cut balls out in a young age if not physically then mentally.
Everybody will do nothing,
just wait for government to provide you care craddle to grave.
People do that to cats, take their balls, claws and then they say they love then.
11-09-2007, 03:43 PM
Forced to abandon can mean may things. Some decide to quit, some run out of $$ or some may not have a source or a Doc. Some people use the doc to administer, and monitor their therapy and helath, others like me, research and do it myself.
I have been on 100mg of test per week, (kinda high for HRT but it seems to do wonders for me) for the past few years. I will just be scared if you cant get Synovex any more OTC!
I had trouble doing cycles when I was younger and having the ups, and downs, and all the emotions and psyc issuses in between. Now I just keep 100mg per week, and energy is great, mind is more alert, not to mention my body comp is great I also use .20ml of ldex eod, with it to keep my estro in check. I dont like the pokes every few days, but its not that bad when you do it every few days for a few years, kind alike brushing your teeth. Dont like to brush my teeth, but I have to do it every day :-)
Not to mention Ill never need viagra!
Some one said they wonder if their body will stop responding some day, I dont think so, since your body responds to natural test as long as your body produces it. I dont think its like other drugs that dont effect ya after a few weeks.
11-09-2007, 09:04 PM
I have a lot to be grateful for in my life. It is not without its problems and challenges. I am grateful for HRT, and expect it to be a part of my life, just as some have other medical issues to medicate for the rest of their lives. I have all my limbs, good health otherwise, and feel better than I had in a decade.
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